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MarilynL3 (Michigan)
Posts: 9
Posted:
I am a board director on a hoa. There is a faction of the board that is aiming to have me or another member resign so they have voting power or to continue what expect to be embezzling. They refuse to have an external audit done. Several months ago they launched a campaign against me where they explicitly lied about me hoping I would be too embarrassed and would resign. When this did not work they launched yet another campaign against me saying that I committed voter fraud. They have said this in an open meeting of 40 residents and also in a closed meetings. I have dozens of harassing emails in recent weeks addressed to myself and the entire board saying I committed voter fraud. My question is can board members say anything they want because they are protected by privileged speech? Or
can they be held liable for defamation for saying something completely untrue?
SheliaH (Indiana)
Posts: 6,964
Posted:
People can say whatever they want, and nowadays, everyone getting more bitter and mean (thanks to the maniac in the White House who seems to get away with it), so the best you may be able to do is to hold your ground. When people see you aren't intimidated and all the crazy emails aren't doing anything, they may get bored and stop.

That said, are the emails coming from the same people and/or being sent to your personal email address? If so, you can block them, although they might start up again by using different email addresses. The thing to worry about is when this behavior leaves cyberspace in the form of people making threatening phone calls (also be hard to track because people use burner phones), vandalism to your personal property or people running up on you screaming and such. That's when you need to notify police and file a report. If you have a Ring camera or similar around the house, it might help identify the culprits, and in addition to talking to the prosecutor's office about criminal charges, you may have grounds for filing a civil lawsuit for harrassment, although I hope nothing that extreme has happened.

Right now, the rest of the board knows you aren't backing down and can't prove the voter fraud anyway, so the only thing left is to try and persuade everyone else to consider voting you out at the appropriate time. You don't say how long this has been going on, but if you're still here and they're changing tactics, you really are winning. I suspect the other homeowners know it too, so keep speaking your truth - the ones who know fact from fiction should also know to ignore the noise.

You can also request an executive session to discuss all this, demanding this faction put their money with their mouth is and PROVE you did whatever they're accusing you of - if they can't, tell them the bad mouthing has to stop and if it doesn't, you will consider legal action against them. In the meantime, it may be helpful to keep a record of the emails because it is possible to trace them (although it takes some doing and may not be cheap).

(My first day back from a 40 day break from social media - looks like the same old, same ole!)

If it is not right do not do it; if it is not true do not say it. Marcus Aurelius
SheliaH (Indiana)
Posts: 6,964
Posted:
From time to time, I also post links to articles that I think can be useful for people serving on HOA boards although they don't specifically address HOA issues - more like how to deal with people because they can be messy. While I was away, I came across this article concerning public bullying - hope you find it useful!

https://www.fastcompany.com/91294427/how-to-respond-to-public-bullying-at-work

If it is not right do not do it; if it is not true do not say it. Marcus Aurelius
ElleN (Idaho)
Posts: 1,333
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By MarilynL3 on 04/21/2025 12:41 PM
I am a board director on a hoa. There is a faction of the board that is aiming to have me or another member resign so they have voting power or to continue what expect to be embezzling. They refuse to have an external audit done. Several months ago they launched a campaign against me where they explicitly lied about me hoping I would be too embarrassed and would resign. When this did not work they launched yet another campaign against me saying that I committed voter fraud. They have said this in an open meeting of 40 residents and also in a closed meetings. I have dozens of harassing emails in recent weeks addressed to myself and the entire board saying I committed voter fraud. My question is can board members say anything they want because they are protected by privileged speech? Or
can they be held liable for defamation for saying something completely untrue?
Yes, any lies they publish about you has to pass a higher hurdle because you are a quasi public figure.

No, they cannot say anything they want and be certain they will not be found liable for damages you suffer. The "damages" must be quantifiable in dollars and comply with very very strict rules for what counts as "damages."

The higher hurdle is probably the fact that you have not suffered what the law calls damages.

Can you ask the board to please consult the HOA attorney about these lies the other directors are asserting? They do pose a threat to the HOA's insurance and more.
KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550
Posted:
I was worried about you, Shelia,. Welcome back!

What size is your HOA? What size is your Board, Marilyn? Are any directors on "your side?"

What do the. accusers mean by "voter fraud???" How are they defining it?

Do your govening docs or Mich. state statute require an audit?? (Cali does) Why do you think there's embezzlement, Marilyn?

My understanding is that "defamation" is hard to prove. For one thing you must show that you were damaged. I wouldn't use a legal approach here.

With Shelia, keep anything in writing for possible future use.

Your best bet is to find some decent ownrs to run for the Board at the next election. I assume that now, Marilyn, you'e getting nothing positive accomplished for your HOA?

ElleN (Idaho)
Posts: 1,333
Posted:
Caveat: AI says that in Michigan, defamation per se occurs when the speaker/writer imputes a criminal offense or chastity. If defamation per se is alleged, damages do not need to be shown.

I suspect HOA voter fraud is an accusation of one flavor or another of a corporate crime.

Consider writing a just-the-facts, emotion-free letter to the Board and asking them to consult the HOA attorney. If you want a draft of such a letter, ask.
MarkM19 (Texas)
Posts: 1,459
Posted:
Sheila,
I do not think it is a good way to start your response that will probably make more than half the posters to not want to read the rest, or some could say something about the zombie that was in office before the current president but that would not be nice either.

Let's try and help people and not talk about which side of politics we are pulling for these days.
MarilynL3 (Michigan)
Posts: 9
Posted:
Wow where have you people been in my life for the past 4 months? The anxiety has been horrendous. So this faction can lie and accuse me of whatever they want in open meetings or threaten me with recall without fear of punishment? Or something like that isn’t worth going to court over? It has affected greatly. Went to a psychiatrist for anxiety, I worry if this will affect my work because work is attached to my reputation. It is easily proven that I didn’t, witnesses and all.
It doesn’t make since
I love how supportive all of you are
ElleN (Idaho)
Posts: 1,333
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By MarilynL3 on 04/21/2025 3:43 PM
So this faction can lie and accuse me of whatever they want in open meetings or threaten me with recall without fear of punishment?
Nope. Get a glass of wine and re-read the responses, especially mine.

If SheliaH's inappropriate, charged political remark goes away, I am taking credit. winky-wink yada. The importance of this forum staying a-political cannot be overstated.
KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550
Posted:
I still feel like I don't understand some of what you wrote, Marilyn. It might help others too.

What is the so-called "voter fraud? Please define it.

What size is your HOA & Board?

Why do you think there's embezzlement?

When is your next election for. directors.

As Shelia recs, you might try an executive session agenda item. And from it would emerge a motion to consult with the HOA attorney about these public and written accusations against you. Point out that the JOB of the board of dterectors is to do what's best for the HOA/the association. This is per the Business Judgement Rule (BJR) that I believe is in every state's, corporations codes

How can badmouthing a fellow director, or two, be defined as in the "best interests" of your corporation (HOA)? That's the question for your attorney.

MarilynL3 (Michigan)
Posts: 9
Posted:
They claim I stuffed the ballot box. There are 12 on the board which causes a lot of problems as we are evenly divided. There are 6 that support me. I suspect embezzlement as they refuse to have an external audit. Next election is in October but I’m not up for reelection for another 2 years. I hope
This helps
E

MarkM19 (Texas)
Posts: 1,459
Posted:
Marilynn,
Twelve people on your board? That seems strange because of the size and also the even number. I can't imagine a board with that many voices. As Kerry has asked how many homes or Condos are in your HOA?
MarilynL3 (Michigan)
Posts: 9
Posted:
400
MarkM19 (Texas)
Posts: 1,459
Posted:
Marilyn,
So many questions please help us help you. How old is your community? How did your board grow to that strange number? The only community I have ever seen with board members they were called neighborhood delegates. They spoke on behalf of the smaller areas of a large HOA with 2500 SFHs. In that case they reported to a board of 5 who made decisions based on the delegates reports.
JackieB4 (California)
Posts: 398
Posted:
Marilyn, I sense most of us FEEL YOUR PAIN. However, without getting into the swamp of ugly rumors, misinformation, etc...which are very costly $$$$$$ to prove
and will deplete any sanity you have retained...SILENCE IS GOLDEN! Rise above the crowd, remain professional, document, document, document...and don't fall
into the trap of talking to other members/neighbors/friends. Many communities have a Cult group that thrives on stirring the rumor pot. Eventually it boils over.
This too will pass!!!
Jackie
KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550
Posted:
How many directors are requires s stated in your Bylaws, Marilyn. Please cite the exact wording.

I've been on this forum for many -years and don't recall ever seeing a Board of 12?

Are you saying there's an actual box into which each owner places a ballot at the annual meeting & Election? And no one. watches or monitors this ballot box to make sue it's not "stuffed?" ?

Do your documents require an audit or perhaps an annual review, or not? Do you have a full-time community manager with an office on th premises? Or do you have a community manager at all?

This must feel like the 3rd degree, but, at least for me I'm having trouble understanding your situation.

Here's another one that will help me.. At Board meetings, don't directors have to follow a written agenda in Michigan? (We do in Calif & also in many states). Because o this r requirement, directors cannot just pop off about anything they want. They MUST stick to the agenda.
DeanJ
Posts: 1,786
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By MarilynL3 on 04/21/2025 12:41 PM
I am a board director on a hoa. There is a faction of the board that is aiming to have me or another member resign so they have voting power or to continue what expect to be embezzling. They refuse to have an external audit done. Several months ago they launched a campaign against me where they explicitly lied about me hoping I would be too embarrassed and would resign. When this did not work they launched yet another campaign against me saying that I committed voter fraud. They have said this in an open meeting of 40 residents and also in a closed meetings. I have dozens of harassing emails in recent weeks addressed to myself and the entire board saying I committed voter fraud. My question is can board members say anything they want because they are protected by privileged speech? Or
can they be held liable for defamation for saying something completely untrue?

Crooks aren’t usually very smart. If they are embezzling money, you should be able to find it reasonably easy in the HOA books and take the evidence to your local police and prosecutor for investigation and prosecution.
ElleN (Idaho)
Posts: 1,333
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By MarilynL3 on 04/21/2025 12:41 PM
There is a faction of the board that is aiming to have me or another member resign so they have voting power or to continue what expect to be embezzling. They refuse to have an external audit done.
If you are saying to others that you think embezzling is going on, be advised that now you may be found liable for defamation per se.

Did the accusations of voter fraud begin before or after you spoke of possible embezzling to others (if you spoke to others about this)?

Do the bylaws require an audit every so often? If not, be advised that audits can be quite expensive. I am not saying an audit (of one flavor or another) should not be done every so often. I am saying that I can understand why boards might resist having a full-
blown audit (for one).
CathyA3 (Ohio)
Posts: 6,299
Posted:
If I were in the OP's shoes, I'd lawyer up fast. I'd assume that I would soon be the target of a lawsuit - or more optimistically I'd want to sue the association myself if I found out that there was embezzling going.

In the meantime, check your HOA's insurance policy for the fidelity/employee dishonesty coverage. Also see what your CC&Rs say about insurance. Ideally you'd have enough to cover any loses - and your CC&Rs may require this.

Regarding defamation, such cases are difficult to win and collecting on any judgement is worse. I wouldn't bother with going this route unless you can prove that the false accusations resulted in the loss of real, hard dollars - for example, you lost your job due to the accusations. Hopefully my attorney would explain this to me before he takes my money.
MichaelS56 (Minnesota)
Posts: 858
Posted:
Please take a moment to review Michigan State law: MCL Section 750.41h There is a lot of information that you can review that may help you understand how to proceed.
MarilynL3 (Michigan)
Posts: 9
Posted:
First I want to thank all of you for your suggestions and support. In regards to my suspicions of embezzling I have not accused anyone. I’m simply saying I have suspicions. But I am not the only one who suspects that. Yes there is a cultish group here that I am up against. Yes silence is golden. With the help of the board members who support me, who bty are also targeted by being fingered for this or that, I have remained silent. Even with DAILY harassing emails demanding that I resign or they will have me recalled. It really wears on a person. I find it totally amazing that they want neighborhood power so bad, it is not a paid position, they would go to such lengths. Question, is there a way that my opening comment can be deleted and I can keep communicating with all of you? Talking with you all is invaluable to me, but I fear they may find this thread.
JackieB4 (California)
Posts: 398
Posted:
Marilyn, unless I missed something, you never mentioned your specific community so I don't see how a connection could legally be made. Threats are a dime a dozen. Stay focused...
Yes it's extremely difficult.
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By MarilynL3 on 04/21/2025 12:41 PM
I am a board director on a hoa. There is a faction of the board that is aiming to have me or another member resign so they have voting power or to continue what expect to be embezzling.

The lack of an audit and the refusal to have an audit is something that you can bring to the membership.
Pressure from the membership can do a lot.

DO NOT MAKE ACCUSATIONS of embezzling without absolute proof or you could find yourself in legal trouble.

Quote:
Posted By MarilynL3 on 04/21/2025 12:41 PM

They refuse to have an external audit done. Several months ago they launched a campaign against me where they explicitly lied about me hoping I would be too embarrassed and would resign. When this did not work they launched yet another campaign against me saying that I committed voter fraud. They have said this in an open meeting of 40 residents and also in a closed meetings. I have dozens of harassing emails in recent weeks addressed to myself and the entire board saying I committed voter fraud. My question is can board members say anything they want because they are protected by privileged speech? Or
can they be held liable for defamation for saying something completely untrue?

This is something to ask your attorney.

Bring documentation of what is done and pay for a legal opinion and knowledge of legal options.
D&O insurance will likely not cover this or the individuals defense because it was concerning their personal actions (what they said/wrote) vs. their official duties.
KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550
Posted:
Agree with Dean. There are at least 6 of you on the Board on the "same side." Unless your finances are incredibly complicated, you "should be able to find it reasonably easy in the HOA books ."

Are you faces reviewed every month at Board meetings, Marilyn.? By that I mean are expenditures for the month in a Board packet that you and all directors review at your regular Board meetings? If not, how would any of you comprehend and audit or annual financial review?

Again, Marilyn, would you mind citing the part of your Bylaws that say you must have 12 directors?
MarilynL3 (Michigan)
Posts: 9
Posted:
Thank you for repeating the question. We did only have 11 until the redo election. At the regular election the other side was caught red handed purposefully losing control of the ballots. They were called out and a redo election was done. We agreed as a board that this one resident could not be elected as she was not in compliance with our deed restrictions. However at the redo election the president renigged and allow her to be on the board despite all logic. That is how we ended up with 12.
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By MarilynL3 on 04/22/2025 2:05 PM

We agreed as a board that this one resident could not be elected as she was not in compliance with our deed restrictions. However at the redo election the president reneged and allow her to be on the board despite all logic. That is how we ended up with 12.

Unless your governing documents or applicable laws specify qualifications, the Board has zero say if someone can or can not be elected.

If your governing documents specify "members in good standing" may be elected to the board without the term "good standing" being defined, denying someone from serving can have legal consequences as the term can be open for interpretation.

MarilynL3 (Michigan)
Posts: 9
Posted:
What happened at the election is emblematic of what we have been experiencing all along. The president reniges all the time. Even if he voted our way he then votes against us. I hope you are starting to get an understanding of just how corrupt the board is.
MarkM19 (Texas)
Posts: 1,459
Posted:
Marilyn,
I usually say stay and fight, but you have a hill too high to climb in my opinion. Twelve or even 11 members of a board is crazy once again.

Just remember you ARE the board as long as you are a part of it. If you can't fix it might be best to just put your head in the sand like the rest of the homeowners.
KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550
Posted:
Again, Marilyn, please cite the exact wording in your Bylaws that state how many directors your Board should have. If you & others cannot interpret what the Bylaws say, ask your HOA attorney to tell you. Does your Assoc. have an HOA attorney?

The president "chose" a director ? OWNERS elect directors. OR Boards elect directors to fill vacancies. The president has absolutely no authority to "elect" a director unless you Bylaws say so, which would be very, very rare.

Does your Asso. .have an onsite community manager? Or a community manager at all? The can be helpful with elections and organizing Board meetings. Does you Board meet every month?

In all honesty, Marilyn, your Board and HOA seem like some sort of crazy town. Much of what you described here isn't "normal" at all.

Agree with Jackie that no one could identity you from your opening remarks.Sad to say, too many HOA Boards comprise ignorant and arrogant directors who want complete control.

Meanwhile ignore the nasties threat of a "recall." It's a lot of trouble and they probably don't know how to do a recall correctly. I HAVE been in a similar situation with barely no is support on a Board of 7 and it's very difficult. It's wonderfull that you do have support.,

ElleN (Idaho)
Posts: 1,333
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By MarilynL3 on 04/22/2025 2:05 PM
We agreed as a board that this one resident could not be elected as she was not in compliance with our deed restrictions.
Do your bylaws declare this resident to be ineligible for failure to be in compliance with deed restrictions?

If not, your board is not in compliance with the bylaws and likely violated state law as well.

Rules are rules.
MarilynL3 (Michigan)
Posts: 9
Posted:
Oh Ellen I am sure we have violated state law on many fronts, but the one on this pictular resident greatly interests me. Where would I find info on what you suggest?
ElleN (Idaho)
Posts: 1,333
Posted:
Marilyn, first please quote exactly what your bylaws say, if anything, about eligibility to serve on the board.
KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550
Posted:
And while you cite for Elle, from your Bylaws, please cite how many directors your HOA is required to have.

KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550
Posted:
I'm also wondering the same thing as Elle: WHAT requirements are there in your Bylaws to be eligible to be a Board member? 1. The person must be a member of the HOA is very common. Do your Bylaws have other requirementns, like candidates must not be delinquent in their dues? Or candidate bus not be convicted felons?

Do you have a copy of your HOA's Bylaws, Marilyn?

MarkM19 (Texas)
Posts: 1,459
Posted:
I think all of the longtime posters on here are being too literal. I doubt the people on this board know, understand or care about the rules or the documentation.
KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550
Posted:
I think you are correct, mark.

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