Re: Facebook posts

Started by SheilaR5 • 17 replies • 224 views

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SheilaR5 (California)
Posts: 42

Posted:

Hoping I can explain this properly. Our hoa has a facebook page that was created by two homeowners who are now board members. A couple of years ago they started posting all kinds of nonsense about the previous board, they incited drama about violation notices, they started a recall posts. None of the former board members ran for relection. The two that created the page are now board members and still posting. Libel, slander and defamation. They do not allow all homeowners into the facebook group, only their certain friends. My question is, can homeowners request to get all the posts and communications to read for themselves? We are in California if that matters. Funny thing is, they are now sending letters to all homeowners stating that if they see any false information posted online or via texts through homeowners that they will go after them. Even though that is exactly what they did for two years.

CathyA3 (Ohio)
Posts: 6,299

Posted:

Am I remembering correctly that California law says you can't interfere with others' right to post whatever they want on social media?

Assuming so, I see two options: wait for the legal wrangling that may result from this, or organizing a remove-and-replace effort to get more capable people on the board. In your place, I'd opt for the second of these. For one, legal wrangling costs money, and it can take a long time to play out. But homeowners can remove board members for any reason or no reason at all. This puts the kibosh on accusations of censorship and arguments over "free speech".

Fortunately for you, it sounds like these board members are doing your work for you. Hopefully enough owners are upset enough over their actions that you'll have support for removing them.

KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550

Posted:

Do all directors or just two send out these nasties?

WHAT do these two directors threaten to "do to" any oner who complains about thier nasties?

What size is your HOA, and how often does the Board meet?

How about a bunch of you owers attend the next Board meeting and, at Open Forum, all of you demand shortly & sweetly that the Board get rid of this divisive and negative FB page?

SheilaR5 (California)
Posts: 42

Posted:

It is the two who originally started the FB page bashing the Then board and now it is the same two threatening legal action if anyone posts or text false information. They have already lost the other 3 board members and are trying to fill those seats. I find it laughable that they have posted and said libel, slander and defamation the entire time they were NOT board members and are now threatening legal action if others do the same. They still run the facebook page and will not let certain homeowners or any previous board members into the group. They only recently removed themselves as “Admins” of the group via advice from legal. Can I request all the posts and comments of their facebook group?

CathyA3 (Ohio)
Posts: 6,299

Posted:

Ah, yes: the Vocational Dissidents who criticize constantly, run off the existing board members, and then proceed to do much worse things than the folks they'd criticized. I know them well, unfortunately. They're harder to deal with if they manage to get elected to the board. In that case you'll probably have to let them mess up and antagonize enough people to get attention. In some ways you're lucky if they do, because you won't have to convince many people that these folks need to be booted off the board. But it sounds like you're already there.

That reinforces what I said upthread. Don't bother to fight about their behavior, you can't prove most of it anyway. (Defamation suits are notoriously not winnable.) Instead organize the membership for a remove-and-replace campaign. There will be specific requirements about the numbers needed to petition for a recall, notice, quorum, etc. You probably should to consider working with a lawyer, because I expect these clowns to ignore any petition and legal action may be needed. It will be a bit of work, and you'll need people who are willing to serve as directors. But the alternative is letting your Dissidents ride roughshod over the community and prevent any work from being done. The membership deserves better.

I wish there were classes that instruct board members on how to deal with the Vocational Dissidents. You find these folks everywhere, but HOA boards seem to be a favorite target. And most board members' reactions only add more fuel to the fire and actually encourage the bad behavior. There are techniques for stopping them from controlling the narrative and for taking away the emotional benefit they get from their actions. The dynamic changes the minute a board member says "I know how to handle them and here's what we do."

CathyA3 (Ohio)
Posts: 6,299

Posted:

I'll add the advice from our previous attorneys: do not use social media for HOA business.

The HOA is liable for any information that is posted on official HOA resources, and social media is notorious for the garbage that's posted on it. It's why websites such as this one that allow users to post will have Terms of Service agreements that are enforced.

If you allow users to post freely on HOA websites, then the board will need to: 1) create a Terms of Service Agreement that is enforced, including denying access to posters who repeatedly violate the Terms; and 2) monitor the website and remove posts that violate the Terms. This is a lot of work, and board members already have too much to do.

And as you can tell, having to remove access for people who violate the Terms makes a website unusable for HOA business, because you can't deny members access to important information.

For all of these reasons, our attorneys said that any HOA website should be information-only. They strongly discouraged use of social media at all. If board members want to join a social media group, then they should not post - just reading is fine. If board members post anything, then homeowners will interpret their comments as "the board says" and will act on the information. And if a board member engages in some conversations and not others, this can be viewed as favoritism. Never underestimate owners' ability to misinterpret what they see and hear.

TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By SheilaR5 on 04/11/2025 11:50 AM

My question is, can homeowners request to get all the posts and communications to read for themselves?

Yes. It's called discovery in a legal action.
Talk to your attorney.

Otherwise, regardless of being on the board, those two individuals have private social media site.
It is not an HOA ran site. Therefore, records of the site are not part of the Association records.

With that said, because those two are on the board, a good attorney would also bring any legal action against the Association.
This is why many on this site say if you are on the board to stay off of social media.

SheilaR5 (California)
Posts: 42

Posted:

They were told to stop by the Hoa attorney but all they did was remove themselves as “Admins” of the facebook page. We also pay a Master Association HOA fee as well and that board gets attacked all over the Nextdoor app. The difference is, those board members don’t threaten people with legal action for voicing their opinion. My thought is, who the heck wants to buy into this community when they see ALL of this hoa drama. We pay 2 hoa’s. Total is $700 a month but the drama is free.

MichaelS56 (Minnesota)
Posts: 858

Posted:

Please keep in mind that an attorney may file a lawsuit over a topic they see on FB. This would generate costs for the HOA and even if the lawsuit is eventually dropped after being dragged out for as long as possible, it could generate a lot of costs for the HOA.

TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By SheilaR5 on 04/12/2025 5:03 PM

My thought is, who the heck wants to buy into this community when they see ALL of this hoa drama.

For the private group, those posts can only be seen by members of the group.

If the master association is a public group, those posts can be seen by anyone.

Many buyers still don't bother doing their research on the Association. They stop at the house plan (if it's online), look at the assessment amount (identified in the listing) and might do a drive through the neighborhood. I wouldn't worry about it too much.

MarkM19 (Texas)
Posts: 1,459

Posted:

Tim,
While I would agree with most of your points. The $700 a month in dues would be a big Red Flag for me. I understand things are cray expensive in Ca. but $8.4K a year for dues would make me want to check the books.

I have always advised my boards to stay away from FB or others similar sites and if you can't avoid commenting at all costs.

TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By MarkM19 on 04/13/2025 12:15 PM
Tim,
While I would agree with most of your points. The $700 a month in dues would be a big Red Flag for me.

You said you have a master association along with your Association.

This makes me think you have private roads (which cost a lot both in deposits to reserves and maintenance).
You may have a pool. Perhaps one with the Master Association and one with your Association.
Pools also cost a lot to maintain and require deposits to reserves.
With two Associations, I expect you have a lot of common area to be maintained.
Do any of your Associations use management companies? They cost a fair amount.
I understand insurance rates are insane in Florida. You are helping to pay the insurance for two associations.

Depending on the amenities, size of development, services provided, etc. $700 may sound like a lot but might not be.

That said, I think every member should be fully aware of the Associations expenses and what their reserve study says.

CathyA3 (Ohio)
Posts: 6,299

Posted:

We have condo communities in my area with monthly assessments in the $500s - low $600s, and these aren't huge communities with multiple amenities. Assessments in the $700s in California wouldn't make me blink. Of course it's always smart to know where the money is going, especially if there are board members acting up.

DeanJ
Posts: 1,786

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By SheilaR5 on 04/11/2025 11:50 AM
Hoping I can explain this properly. Our hoa has a facebook page that was created by two homeowners who are now board members. A couple of years ago they started posting all kinds of nonsense about the previous board, they incited drama about violation notices, they started a recall posts. None of the former board members ran for relection. The two that created the page are now board members and still posting. Libel, slander and defamation. They do not allow all homeowners into the facebook group, only their certain friends. My question is, can homeowners request to get all the posts and communications to read for themselves? We are in California if that matters. Funny thing is, they are now sending letters to all homeowners stating that if they see any false information posted online or via texts through homeowners that they will go after them. Even though that is exactly what they did for two years.

Defamation of character typically occurs when false and damaging information is shared as a fact with a third party.
Slander involves defamatory statements that are spoken. Hard to do on a Facebook page.
Libel pertains to written or published defamatory statements.

Take away their platform monopoly. If the “two” are a minority of of the board, the majority should adopt a resolution to have an official HOA Facebook page and promote it in the community.

I would also consider trademarking the name of your HOA and advising the “two” they may not use it. The main purpose of a trademark is to identify the source of a product, and to distinguish that product from products that come from other sources.

KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550

Posted:

From my toe: What size is your HOA, and how often does the Board meet?

How about a bunch of you owers attend the next Board meeting and, at Open Forum, all of you demand shortly & sweetly that the Board get rid of this divisive and negative FB page?

Wait, how is it that there are Board meetings with no quorum of a Board?

KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550

Posted:

Sorry form my "above." It only looks like I type with my toes sometimes!

KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550

Posted:

Sorry form my "above." It only looks like I type with my toes sometimes!

MarshallT (New York)
Posts: 414

Posted:

Hi,

This is not considered a platform for HOA business, even though they are talking about the HOA. So unless there is some sort of legal issue that requires evidence in the form of these posts, you would not have much luck obtaining the posts.

However, there is little they can do if they catch people texting about them too. Sorry you are dealing with this pettiness.

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