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BillB17 (South Carolina)
Posts: 92
Posted:
Our Annual Meeting is in mid-May. Our 60 day notice (call for candidates for the board) included the following statements:

"If you are interested in running as a Board Candidate, please complete the enclosed Nomination Application. Keep in mind that the application you submit may be copied in its original format, without alteration, and included in the mailing of the official Notice of the Annual Members’ Meeting to the membership."

"We must receive applications no later than 2:00 p.m. on Friday, April 4, 2025. This will ensure that nominations will appear on the proxy which will accompany the formal notice."

Today April 7, three days past the deadline, a current board member whose term is expiring emailed the management company that "he will be running again for his position" and did not submit any application, late or otherwise.

Our nominating committee meets tomorrow to place all eligible candidate into nomination. This process required by our By Laws.

Is there any reason that the nominating committee should NOT declare him ineligible.

DeanJ
Posts: 1,786
Posted:
Seems simple to me. He didn’t follow the directions provided the community and he isn’t going to be on the ballot. If a current board member doesn’t know the process, who does?
ElleN (Idaho)
Posts: 1,338
Posted:
I say:

If proxies and other forms that require candidates' names have not been printed, put his name on them, note that he did not submit an application (while publishing the other candidates' applications, and let him run.

I say this because Boards should try to respect an owner's right to run for the board (within reason). This is a close call IMO. Err on the positive side.

The alternative is to tell the guy he missed the deadline, but he can be nominated from the floor. I do not support the latter, but it is an option.
KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550
Posted:
Current Board members should get no special privileges. Not only was his arrogant statement that he'll "be running again," disrespectful, he didn't even bother to fill out whatever application is required.

Why should the Nominating Committee "respect" such a sloppy, careless owner? Inform him kindly he may campaign to be nominated from the floor IF such nominations are permitted by your Bylaws. (Our restated Bylaws do not permit nominations from the floor.)
CathyA3 (Ohio)
Posts: 6,299
Posted:
Questions:

* Do your bylaws allow for nominations from the floor?

* Does the nominating committee have authority to prevent someone from running altogether - or do they simply keep the name off the printed ballot while allowing for write-ins?

If the answers to these questions are "yes", I say leave his name off and let him self-nominate at the meeting. No harm done.

If one of the answers is "no", you risk making this a bigger issue than it needs to be. Yes, maybe the guy is a self-centered jerk and you don't want him on the board anyway. But that's for the homeowners to decide, not the nominating committee.

You should be aware that some states (eg. Florida) have banned nominating committees altogether because they've acted as gate-keepers to prevent "the wrong people" from serving on the board. So tread cautiously. There can be too much drama associated with elections, and the last thing a new board needs is unnecessary conflict right off the bat. They'll have plenty to argue about going forward without this. (Ask me about board drama.)

CathyA3 (Ohio)
Posts: 6,299
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By CathyA3 on 04/08/2025 4:46 AM
Questions:

* Do your bylaws allow for nominations from the floor?

* Does the nominating committee have authority to prevent someone from running altogether - or do they simply keep the name off the printed ballot while allowing for write-ins?

If the answers to these questions are "yes", I say leave his name off and let him self-nominate at the meeting. No harm done.

If one of the answers is "no", you risk making this a bigger issue than it needs to be. Yes, maybe the guy is a self-centered jerk and you don't want him on the board anyway. But that's for the homeowners to decide, not the nominating committee.

You should be aware that some states (eg. Florida) have banned nominating committees altogether because they've acted as gate-keepers to prevent "the wrong people" from serving on the board. So tread cautiously. There can be too much drama associated with elections, and the last thing a new board needs is unnecessary conflict right off the bat. They'll have plenty to argue about going forward without this. (Ask me about board drama.)


Well nuts, that wasn't clear. Try again.

For the second question, if the committee is thinking about acting as a gate-keeper, and if leaving the name off the ballot would mean that the person can't run at all ... I strongly suggest not doing that. Otherwise, the committee may be directly affecting the outcome of the election, which I believe exceeds their authority. And a number of states agree on this.

I'd have a different opinion if the person wasn't actually qualified to serve and that's why you'd leave him off the ballot - ie, he has unpaid assessments. That's within the committee's scope of authority. But this sounds like something different. Homeowners are very capable of deciding that someone is an arrogant jerk and they don't want him on the board.

DeanJ
Posts: 1,786
Posted:
Any candidate who followed the process has a valid objection to the board member being included on the ballot because they failed to follow the process and meet the deadline.
CathyA3 (Ohio)
Posts: 6,299
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By DeanJ on 04/08/2025 6:27 AM
Any candidate who followed the process has a valid objection to the board member being included on the ballot because they failed to follow the process and meet the deadline.

How is the candidate harmed if the board member is included?

This is why I asked about nominations from the floor. If the bylaws allow them, then the only real advantage to meeting the deadline is having your name printed on the ballot and maybe having your bio and other stuff included with any materials distributed at the annual meeting.

(Meanwhile I'm envious of any community that has so many potential candidates for the board that they can afford to kick one out.)
ElleN (Idaho)
Posts: 1,338
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By CathyA3 on 04/08/2025 7:33 AM
(Meanwhile I'm envious of any community that has so many potential candidates for the board that they can afford to kick one out.)
This is on my mind.

Most importantly: The principal way the owners have a say in HOA business is to vote for the board candidates they prefer. What is being contemplated arguably takes away voting rights of owners.

Please respond to CathyA3's questions. If the actions of the Nominating Committee result in this person not being able to be elected at all, this is serious and IMO violates bylaws, covenants and state law. If the actions of the Nominating Committee severely limit this potential candidate from being a candidate on equal terms with the other candidates, then this too is problematic.
CathyA3 (Ohio)
Posts: 6,299
Posted:
I can understand being sticklers about this if the state has election requirements that must be followed to the letter, and deadlines are one of the requirements. In which case, too bad so sad, Mr. Board Member.

If this isn't the case, then you ask these questions. Is the nominating committee trying their best to follow the rules as they understand them, or are they making things up? Or is the committee wrongly trying to flex its muscles because it can? Or is somebody upset because they think the board member is getting away with something, even though it may not negatively affect the outcome of the election?

If there are no election procedure that must be followed and the outcome of the election won't be affected by including the board member, I say include him. Otherwise you may have some owners who wanted to vote for him and who will accuse the committee of having their thumbs on the scale and depriving homeowners of their rights.

(Disclaimer: my community has had issues with committee members overstepping their authority. And some states have prohibited these committees because they've been misused to control who is elected. So this situation may very well be a committee that's trying to do a good job as they see it. I lean toward that explanation because folks who are up to no good generally don't seek advice on the internet. But you have to consider the possibility that something else is going on.)
KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550
Posted:
When our HOA did have a Nom. Committee b/c it was required by our then-Bylaws, the Board gave the Nom. Comm. its marching orders: B/c the election is on xx/xx/xxxx, the Board approved-applications must be turned in by 4/4/2025.

I'm thinking the Nom. Comm is doing its job as assigned by the Board. So, Mr. JerkFace director knew all along WHAT was due, and WHEN. The Nom. Comm. must act today and they, from what I can gather, still don't have a required application from current director Mr. JF, who apparently couldn't be "bothered."

CathyA3 (Ohio)
Posts: 6,299
Posted:
This question should be directed to the board. That's especially true if the deadline isn't spelled out in the bylaws or state law, or if it were a board decision to give people enough time to prepare all the documents. There will be consequences way, so they should be prepared for them.
ElleN (Idaho)
Posts: 1,338
Posted:
A potential candidate who meets the substantive statutory and bylaw eligibility requirements may not lawfully be disqualified because the candidate did not submit an application that the board made up.
MarkM19 (Texas)
Posts: 1,459
Posted:
Bill,
I am with Dean and Kerry. The existing board member should be well aware of the nominating and voting procedures if he/she has been elected to the board in the past. Deadlines are in place for a reason and because I changed my mind does not qualify IMO.

CathyA3 (Ohio)
Posts: 6,299
Posted:
This is an interesting split.

We have the "rules are rules and they exist for a reason" crowd.

Then we have the "what is the effect of these rules and is that what we want" crowd.

I'm obviously in the second group, particularly if it's a board-made rule. That's why I mentioned/asked about any election requirements in state law or in the bylaws, which would be non-negotiable and the whole discussion moot.

I'm uncomfortable with any rule that makes it impossible for someone to change their mind after what may be a arbitrary deadline. I ask: is that what you want? Would you be more inclined to bend if this was a very capable board member who could be hard to replace. If the latter, then you're reacting to that particular individual rather than to the rule itself.

And in the end, I believe that rules exist to serve people and organizations, not the other way around. If you're sacrificing people or the good or an organization in order to preserve the rule, I believe that's backwards.
ElleN (Idaho)
Posts: 1,338
Posted:
Why I am not in the camp that says "rules are rules":

Some "rules" derive directly from bylaws, covenants and state statutes. Some do not. When rules do not derive directly from bylaws, covenants or state statutes and when the stakes are high, watch out.

The stakes are highest when a board chooses to set a rule, with no basis in bylaws, covenants or statutes, that minimizes people's right to elect a certain person as a director. The right to vote for the director one prefers is the single most important right in HOA-land.
KellyM3 (North Carolina)
Posts: 2,239
Posted:
Bill,

The main issue is that if the election comes down to proxy ballots determining winners from losers, this incumbent director's name will not be printed on the proxy. If the board director is on good standing, let them run for office and not appear on proxies for those votes. Your text explains why April 4th is a deadline. I'm surprised your annual meeting doesn't allow for floor nominations of board members.

However, the board can certainly move on without the incumbent by policy, but I'd only push that if there were more candidates seeking office than offices to be filled.

ElleN (Idaho)
Posts: 1,338
Posted:
The statutory notice requirement is notably different from what the first post to this thread indicates. From the SC Nonprofit Corporation Act:

SECTION 33-31-705.Notice of meeting.

(a) A corporation shall give notice consistent with its bylaws of meetings of members in a fair and reasonable manner.

(b) Any notice that conforms to the requirements of subsection (c) is fair and reasonable, but other means of giving notice also may be fair and reasonable when all the circumstances are considered. However, notice of matters referred to in subsection (c)(2) must be given as provided in subsection (c).

(c) Notice is fair and reasonable if:

(1) the corporation notifies its members of the place, date, and time of each annual, regular, and special meeting of members no fewer than ten or if notice is mailed by other than first class or registered mail, thirty, nor more than sixty days before the meeting date;


(2) notice of an annual or regular meeting includes a description of any matter that must be approved by the members under Section 33-31-831, 33-31-856, 33-31-1003, 33-31-1021, 33-31-1104, 33-31-1202, 33-31-1401, or 33-31-1402; and

(3) notice of a special meeting includes a description of the matter for which the meeting is called.


As well --

Quote:
Posted By BillB17 on 04/07/2025 4:47 PM

"We must receive applications no later than 2:00 p.m. on Friday, April 4, 2025. This will ensure that nominations will appear on the proxy which will accompany the formal notice."
When you say "proxy" above, I think you mean "proxy appointment form." A proxy appointment form is not the same as a ballot. A proxy form gives an owner the option to assign someone else to vote in her or his place.

It appears your HOA wants to have a directed proxy. If nominations from the floor are allowed, or if someone wants to run but missed this board-created deadline, then the directed proxy you seem to be describing above is legally problematic.

CathyA3 (Ohio)
Posts: 6,299
Posted:
I'll note that people can change their minds in the opposite direction as well.

Example: Mrs. Jones is listed as a candidate on the directed proxy/ballot, and a few days before the annual meeting her husband has a stroke. There is no way she'll have the time or mental bandwidth to be an effective board member. You don't want people voting for her if she won't serve. Depending on how votes are tallied, this could really throw things into disarray.

You have to be able to react to conditions at the time the election is being held, which often means write-in candidates and nominations from the floor. We've had people elected in my community as a result of some gentle arm-twisting by our attorney who was in attendance. Nobody was more surprised than the newly-elected person. :-)
MarkM19 (Texas)
Posts: 1,459
Posted:
Cathy makes a good point here IMO. I had this happen to my board many years ago in Ca. the person went on and won the election and then stepped down before taking the position. The board then had a vacancy and was able to appoint someone to the now open seat. If this board member was available, he/she would be the obvious choice. The board did not need to take the candidate who had the next highest vote total because that person did not get elected.

Something we are not considering is what if no one else puts their name on the ballot? In that case the existing board member would not lose his/her seat till someone wins the seat in the election. Even though this person's name is not on the ballot. If it is a contested election, I feel it would be a different story.
ElleN (Idaho)
Posts: 1,338
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By CathyA3 on 04/09/2025 5:08 AM
I'll note that people can change their minds in the opposite direction as well.

Example: Mrs. Jones is listed as a candidate on the directed proxy/ballot, and a few days before the annual meeting her husband has a stroke. There is no way she'll have the time or mental bandwidth to be an effective board member. You don't want people voting for her if she won't serve. Depending on how votes are tallied, this could really throw things into disarray.

You have to be able to react to conditions at the time the election is being held, which often means write-in candidates and nominations from the floor. We've had people elected in my community as a result of some gentle arm-twisting by our attorney who was in attendance. Nobody was more surprised than the newly-elected person. :-)
Do you advise against directed proxies?

Anyone else have an opinion on the use of directed proxies?

Other than the elaboration TimB4 posts from time to time on directed and non-directed proxies, I had not thought about this until today.
CathyA3 (Ohio)
Posts: 6,299
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By ElleN on 04/09/2025 8:29 AM
Posted By CathyA3 on 04/09/2025 5:08 AM
I'll note that people can change their minds in the opposite direction as well.

Example: Mrs. Jones is listed as a candidate on the directed proxy/ballot, and a few days before the annual meeting her husband has a stroke. There is no way she'll have the time or mental bandwidth to be an effective board member. You don't want people voting for her if she won't serve. Depending on how votes are tallied, this could really throw things into disarray.

You have to be able to react to conditions at the time the election is being held, which often means write-in candidates and nominations from the floor. We've had people elected in my community as a result of some gentle arm-twisting by our attorney who was in attendance. Nobody was more surprised than the newly-elected person. :-)
Do you advise against directed proxies?

Anyone else have an opinion on the use of directed proxies?

Other than the elaboration TimB4 posts from time to time on directed and non-directed proxies, I had not thought about this until today.

It's a good question, and I think you have to consider directed proxies as part of all the other election requirements. They have to work as part of a coordinated whole.

What can happen is that people design business processes to work when everything goes as it should. The processes also have to work when things don't go as they should.

We don't use directed proxies in my community, so I'm not familiar with them. Our proxies only allow people to designate someone to cast their votes for them. They count toward making quorum.

We also allow nominations from the floor, so not having one's name on our printed ballot does not harm one's ability to be elected. In addition, our procedures allow for last-minute drop outs such as Mrs. Jones above and the naming of a replacement candidate. This is important because we're always flirting with empty board positions. If we couldn't name last-minute candidates, we could easily end up with one board member or none at the end of the night, which is not a desirable outcome. (Both of these things have happened.)

In short, we remove barriers - aside from any in our Declaration or bylaws - because it's in our best interest to do so.

Too many folks are reluctant to volunteer, and making them jump through arbitrary hoops discourages them further.
KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550
Posted:
A Board establishing a deadline via its Nom. Comm. to turn in a candidates statement /application is hardly an "arbitrary hoop." This date often is to comply with state law as in Calif. I'm guessing that most HOAs establish some sort of deadline. Candidates were given 60 DAYS to do this horrible task. Dr. Mr. JF "miss" this deadline b/c he somehow is NOT in good standing?

Would a new unknown owner be given the same privilege of applying late? Did MR JK turn in his app. by now???? If not, would only his name go out to owners?

Directors are supposed to lead by example., which includes complying with notice requirements and all other rules. More is expected of them than of non-directors.

in 2019, after 12 yr of Board service, I ran for the Board after a voluntary year's absence. A Candidates Statement was due by a certain date to comply with Cali's many pre-election deadlines. Our HOA Board years ago limited the Candidates Statement to 300 words, and it's stated on a form that all candidates sign saying they're members of the Association.

Two incumbents, one seeking a 3rd 2-year term, included literally pages of their statement. One, a retired Econ. prof, turned in what seemed like a CV going back to the '90s! The 2nd, an attorney, turned in something similarly long including cases he'd won in IL in the 90s! It was the Community Mgr's job to make sure the Statements followed the rules. These non-compliant Statements went to all ownrs. A new candidate and I both screamed about this to the mgr. and demanded that "something be done" to correct this blatant violation of the procedure. The President & COO of the good-sized Mgt. Comm gave us 3 other candidates 48 hours to add to our 300 words to be sent to the members. Two of us added nothing and the 3rd added a very professional page of his background that suited our HOA's needs.

After a pathetic showing at a Candidates Night, the two, plus their rubber-stamping buddy all were defeated and we three won.

CathyA3 (Ohio)
Posts: 6,299
Posted:
Thinking some more:

If you're going to use directed proxies where people tell the proxy holder how to vote, then you almost have the have a hard and fast deadline for candidates to announce themselves. Otherwise the person who filled out the directed proxy would not have seen the full slate of candidates.

So far, so good.

The problems start to arise if people change their minds about running, as with Mrs. Jones above. Any person who submitted their directed proxy listing Mrs. Jones as their choice has just thrown away their vote with no option for making another choice. That sounds undesirable.

If the community allows for write-ins or floor nominations, then those who submitted a directed proxy may not see all of the candidates. This limits their choices and it puts the write-ins at a disadvantage. Also undesirable.

If the proposed solution to this is banning write-in's and floor nominations, then you eliminate the community's ability to react to the Mrs. Jones situation. This may not matter much if there are plenty of other candidates whose names are on the ballot. But many communities don't have that luxury - I'm thinking of smaller associations, especially condominiums and those with a high percentage of absentee owners and landlords.

Tentative conclusion: using directed proxies assumes everything goes as planned, and provides few if any options for dealing with unexpected events that occur after the hard deadline for candidates to register.

I'll be interested to hear if others see this differently.

Poor Bill: he wanted a quick answer....
MarkM19 (Texas)
Posts: 1,459
Posted:
Kerry,
I completely agree with your last post. I also remember when the 300-word limit was put in place in a California. I spent many hours crafting my Bios to make them fit into the guidelines. I am a rules guy and have always been that way. Anyone who does not want to follow the rules would be a big Red Flag for me. They either mean something or they don't. I think it shows that for Fiduciary Duties are up for debate. I am glad your candidates lost it probably saved your HOA some grief down the road.
CathyA3 (Ohio)
Posts: 6,299
Posted:
Whether something is an "arbitrary hoop" is entirely dependent on context.

If it's required by state law, then it's not arbitrary in the context of an association election. If the rule was put in place because lawmakers thought it should be there, and a different law would work just as well (or better), then it is indeed arbitrary.

I have no problem with rules that are necessary to the smooth functioning of a society. I also don't get too upset over rules that I think are stupid but they're not doing any harm and aren't worth my time to fight about.

In my community, a deadline to submit bios is there to give our manager enough time to print election materials in time for our meeting. It is, to some extent, arbitrary because it depends on the manager's work.

In a lot of ways this reminds me of the story about a young person who wanted to make a pot roast, checked Mom's recipe, and saw that it said to cut the ends off the roast. She called to ask her mom why she should so that. Mom didn't know, it was in the recipe that her mom gave her. So Mom called Grandma and asked why she had to cut the ends off the pot roast. Grandma said "my pan is too short." That's a useful rule that became arbitrary because the context changed.

If you have a rule and you can't state why it's there and if it's necessary and effective, it's probably arbitrary.
ElleN (Idaho)
Posts: 1,338
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By CathyA3 on 04/09/2025 1:02 PM
Thinking some more:

If you're going to use directed proxies where people tell the proxy holder how to vote, then you almost have the have a hard and fast deadline for candidates to announce themselves. Otherwise the person who filled out the directed proxy would not have seen the full slate of candidates.

So far, so good.

The problems start to arise if people change their minds about running, as with Mrs. Jones above. Any person who submitted their directed proxy listing Mrs. Jones as their choice has just thrown away their vote with no option for making another choice. That sounds undesirable.

If the community allows for write-ins or floor nominations, then those who submitted a directed proxy may not see all of the candidates. This limits their choices and it puts the write-ins at a disadvantage. Also undesirable.

If the proposed solution to this is banning write-in's and floor nominations, then you eliminate the community's ability to react to the Mrs. Jones situation. This may not matter much if there are plenty of other candidates whose names are on the ballot. But many communities don't have that luxury - I'm thinking of smaller associations, especially condominiums and those with a high percentage of absentee owners and landlords.

Tentative conclusion: using directed proxies assumes everything goes as planned, and provides few if any options for dealing with unexpected events that occur after the hard deadline for candidates to register.

I'll be interested to hear if others see this differently.

Poor Bill: he wanted a quick answer....
I agree with your points.

I think Bill's HOA's biggest problem is the nominating committee and/or board may not understand the difference between a proxy "appointment form"*; a proxy; and an absentee ballot.

Speaking of "rules":

Do Bill's HOA's bylaws specify that an owner must use a directed proxy? Because there are certainly a lot of pitfalls to doing so, as listed neatly above.

I would like to see the "appointment form" and see if it complies with the bylaws and state law.

*"Appointment form" is the language from the SC Nonprofit Corporation Act.

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