Sometimes I Wonder If I Know Anything....

Started by CathyA3 • 8 replies • 171 views

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CathyA3 (Ohio)
Posts: 6,299

Posted:

So we had a board meeting this morning.

We were discussing unapproved signs in the common area (a violation per our CC&Rs). And our manager mentioned that one owner in one of her other condo communities got into a big fight over political signs. The owner called local officials and the police and finally called her state representative. Allegedly this representative told the owner that the deed restrictions override federal law (First Amendment) and that the association could ban her sign.

Am I losing my mind here? Is that true? I know that condos can make reasonable rules about size and placement of signs on the common elements, but I didn't think we could ban political signs unless the sign was straight up offensive or got into Fair Housing territory. I want to know because our signage restriction bans all signs except for one for-sale or for-rent sign. I told my fellow board members and the manager that I'd prefer not to be a test case...

DeanJ
Posts: 1,786

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By CathyA3 on 04/07/2025 1:01 PM
So we had a board meeting this morning.

We were discussing unapproved signs in the common area (a violation per our CC&Rs). And our manager mentioned that one owner in one of her other condo communities got into a big fight over political signs. The owner called local officials and the police and finally called her state representative. Allegedly this representative told the owner that the deed restrictions override federal law (First Amendment) and that the association could ban her sign.

Am I losing my mind here? Is that true? I know that condos can make reasonable rules about size and placement of signs on the common elements, but I didn't think we could ban political signs unless the sign was straight up offensive or got into Fair Housing territory. I want to know because our signage restriction bans all signs except for one for-sale or for-rent sign. I told my fellow board members and the manager that I'd prefer not to be a test case...

I can’t specifically address sanity issues, but the constitution provides only protections from government interference with political speech.

In Ohio, all signs in an HOA may be governed except as provided in the CC&Rs. HB16 is currently in the general assembly and does not appear to be coming out of committee to make law on this issue.

https://search-prod.lis.state.oh.us/api/v2/general_assembly_136/legislation/hb16/00_IN/pdf/

I hope it fails because it does not limit the number of signs, or provide HOAs other restrictions.

TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059

Posted:

One can contractually sign away their rights if the choose to do so.

This is why many States have enacted laws about political signs.

Here is more info:

Sign and Flag Displays An informational brief prepared by the LSC staff for members and staff of the Ohio General Assembly from 2022

Ohio Bill would stop homeowners associations from banning yard signs from 2024

KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550

Posted:

In this "other condo HOA," was the lady's sign in the common area?

Our condo HOA bans any signs in the common areas. I can't think of reason to permit them?

Our HOA also bans any signs on our exclusive use (limited use elements) common areas (residents' patios/balconies/decks)

Our state says we must permit signs & banners in windows but can limit size and how many, which we do

Our City says we must permit real estate signs in our residential windows an can limit them them to 4'x 4, how long they may be posted and how. many.

CathyA3 (Ohio)
Posts: 6,299

Posted:

Thank you, all, for the info. I could have sworn that in the past I've said basically the same thing - that the first amendment protects you from *government* interference and that private property can limit free speech. I'm sure that I was told that I was wrong - the term "quasi-governmental" came up.

Anyway, to Kerry's question, the condo owner who was challenging her association wanted to display the sign in "her" front yard, which of course was common area. Oddly enough, in my community we have restrictions on what is displayed in windows. We must have white blinds on all windows except for the little ones in the garage doors. No colored drapes, banners, signs, etc.

DeanJ
Posts: 1,786

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By CathyA3 on 04/07/2025 4:48 PM
Thank you, all, for the info. I could have sworn that in the past I've said basically the same thing - that the first amendment protects you from *government* interference and that private property can limit free speech. I'm sure that I was told that I was wrong - the term "quasi-governmental" came up.

Anyway, to Kerry's question, the condo owner who was challenging her association wanted to display the sign in "her" front yard, which of course was common area. Oddly enough, in my community we have restrictions on what is displayed in windows. We must have white blinds on all windows except for the little ones in the garage doors. No colored drapes, banners, signs, etc.

We regulate political signs to 2, the standard size, 30 days prior to election and only for an issue on the ballot in the precinct, no vulgarity or religious symbols.

Less than 15% of the homeowners display any.

ElleN (Idaho)
Posts: 1,334

Posted:

HOAtalk.com has a member who has often insisted that Boards have to respect people's First Amendment rights. This is patently false.

More at https://www.davis-stirling.com/HOME/F/Free-Speech-Defamation

JackS20 (North Carolina)
Posts: 271

Posted:

Let me break it down for you
1. Individuals can sign away their rights under federal law, thus giving up their first amendment rights.
2. State politicians didn't like this so they made laws making it illegal for many HOA's to ban poltical signs. In these states one can't sign away their rights.

3. Federal law trumps state law.

hope that clears it up lol.

LoriM15 (Florida)
Posts: 1,009

Posted:

Real world - our documents prohibit political signs or flags of any kind anywhere in the community. And we enforce this rule. We even made the guy with his political signs in his garage keep his garage door shut. And no signs in windows or anywhere visible. All perfectly legal and saves a lot of conflict.

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