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CarlS8 (Michigan)
Posts: 7
Posted:
My HOA is located in Lansing Michigan where we can get several large snowfalls each winter. Lansing ordinance requires homeowners to clear snow from their sidewalks within 24 hours of a snowfall. Our HOA Rules reference the City ordinance and similarly require homeowners to keep their sidewalks free from snow and ice. Several homeowners ignore the City ordinance and our HOA Rules. A Board Member has proposed that the HOA take on the responsibility and hire a contractor to do snow removal for the 63 free-standing homes in our HOA. As a Board Member, I volunteered to research this matter and to share my findings with the entire Board. I am interested in learning whether other HOAs pay for sidewalk snow removal. Additional comments about related issues, Pros & Cons, suggestions, etc, will be greatly appreciated. This is my first day on HOATalk and I am looking forward to your responses. Thanks!
SheliaH (Indiana)
Posts: 6,964
Posted:
I live in a townhouse community and this is a service our association covers. The vendor will remove snow (not ice) from our sidewalks that run parallel to the street and up to our door, but we require 3+ inches of snow, and the work doesn't start until after the snowfall ends. They also plow streets owned by the association and our parking lots - since we have a city-owned street going through the neighborhood, getting to the main road may still be a ittle dicey, but some service is better than none. If you want a vendor who removes ice, that will add to the price. We used to keep a few bags of icemelt around the parking lots and near the clubhouse where people could apply to the street corners, but people took off with the bags, so that ended that.

In my area, the city won't plow side streets unless there's 4 inches or more, so if you have to drive on one to get to or from your neighborhood, homeowners will have to keep that in mind. Then there's snow emergencies - in this state, really bad snow means everyone except police, plow trucks and first responders must stay off the road, so if you live in one county and your vendor is headquartered in one with a snow emergency or vice versa, that could delay service. If you have street parking, you'll need to remind people to remove their cars from the street when the trucks arrive, otherwise the cars will be buried in snow and homeowners will have to dig them out. Your vendor might also include language in the contract stating it's not responsible for damage if a car is parked on the street, so homeowners will have to be made aware of that and govern themselves accordingly

If you have homeowners who ignore HOA rules regarding snow removal, you should be sending violation notices and addressing them in the usual fashion (fines, appeal process, etc.) The city usually addresses violations after someone files a complaint, so homeowners can do that themselves. People should also know the Post Office will delay or suspend service if there's a heavy snowfall making delivery too dangerous for the carriers, so if homeowners are too lazy to clean up, they only have themselves to blame. You can check the Post Office website to see if mail delivery in your area will be delayed due to weather.

(I didn't know that until your conversation, so thanks for prompting me to do a bit of research!)

You can start with doing a homeowner poll to see if they'd be interested in the service and are willing to pay for it. Talk to board members in other HOA communities who have snow removal - they can give you referrals and tips on what to include and avoid in the contract. Prepare a request for proposal (RFP) and send them out in the spring, doing your due dillegence on prospects (e.g. check consumer protection websites to see if they've had complaints and how they were handled. After you review them, talk to finalists and make your decision, the service can begin with the 2025-26 season.

Hope this helps! Years ago, I had a business trip to Grand Rapids and drove through what became a heavy snowfall, followed by zero degree weather. I WILL NOT do that again unless I really need to!

If it is not right do not do it; if it is not true do not say it. Marcus Aurelius
ElleN (Idaho)
Posts: 1,334
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By CarlS8 on 02/18/2025 11:52 AM
My HOA is located in Lansing Michigan where we can get several large snowfalls each winter. Lansing ordinance requires homeowners to clear snow from their sidewalks within 24 hours of a snowfall. Our HOA Rules
Are these board-created rules? Or covenants? It makes huge difference.
Quote:
Posted By CarlS8 on 02/18/2025 11:52 AM
reference the City ordinance and similarly require homeowners to keep their sidewalks free from snow and ice. Several homeowners ignore the City ordinance and our HOA Rules. A Board Member has proposed that the HOA take on the responsibility and hire a contractor to do snow removal for the 63 free-standing homes in our HOA.
If the HOA takes responsibility, then the HOA takes on more risk of being sued for a slip-and-fall.

There is an insurance crisis in this country, with rates skyrocketing and many insurers rejecting clients. Your board should consider the latter carefully.

Of course, if owners' are not shoveling their sidewalks, and the board/city are not enforcing compliance, this could also get the HOA sued.
MichaelS56 (Minnesota)
Posts: 859
Posted:
Our Board has a contract with our grounds vendor to remove snow from our streets, driveways and sidewalks if more than 1 1/2 inches has fallen. The unit owner is responsible for the ice issues.
LetA (Nevada)
Posts: 2,679
Posted:
It all depends, are you in a condo or SFH HOA? Do you own the sidewalk from the street to your door or is that a common element of the HOA?
What does your governing documents say is your responsibility to maintain? Read both the CC&R's and the rules and regulations.
CathyA3 (Ohio)
Posts: 6,299
Posted:
Who owns the sidewalks: the property owners or the HOA?

If the HOA owns them, then the HOA has the duty to clear them. If not, then the HOA should probably not clear them (I agree with ElleN about increased liability for being sued). Instead, people can report non-compliant owners to the city and let city officials take it from there.

If you're really concerned about this, the board can contact the association attorney and get that person's opinion.
CathyA3 (Ohio)
Posts: 6,299
Posted:
Should have added:

Legal obligations aren't transferable to someone else unless there is an agreement in place (eg. easements or CC&Rs). The obligations have to spelled out somewhere. Assuming obligations where none exists is risky.

An aside: for liability, you have to look at whether a hazard is man-made or naturally occurring. For instance, if there is a low-lying area that collects water and freezes, and the association knows about this, it could be considered a man-made hazard. But if you get a couple inches of snow and somebody slips and falls, many courts have viewed that as naturally occurring. Around here, they tend to say that this is Ohio, it snows, if you live here you should know how to deal with it. (Spoiler alert: nobody knows how to deal with it.)

Another aside: we're condos, and we don't want residents shoveling snow because of the risk of injury. We buy ice melt and give it to whoever wants some.
DeanJ
Posts: 1,786
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By CarlS8 on 02/18/2025 11:52 AM
My HOA is located in Lansing Michigan where we can get several large snowfalls each winter. Lansing ordinance requires homeowners to clear snow from their sidewalks within 24 hours of a snowfall. Our HOA Rules reference the City ordinance and similarly require homeowners to keep their sidewalks free from snow and ice. Several homeowners ignore the City ordinance and our HOA Rules. A Board Member has proposed that the HOA take on the responsibility and hire a contractor to do snow removal for the 63 free-standing homes in our HOA. As a Board Member, I volunteered to research this matter and to share my findings with the entire Board. I am interested in learning whether other HOAs pay for sidewalk snow removal. Additional comments about related issues, Pros & Cons, suggestions, etc, will be greatly appreciated. This is my first day on HOATalk and I am looking forward to your responses. Thanks!

Likely the HOA has a rule that says owners can’t leave our beer cans in the front yard. If a few owners don’t comply, are you going to hire a vendor to pick litter up every week?

Here are my observations as a board member on snow removal.

1. If ice removal is a requirement, it requires chemical treatment. Many owners do want it due to surface damage concerns.
2. Most vendors service their commercial accounts first and HOAs second. If there is a significant storm, the vendors can become overworked. Owners still expect the vendor service pronto. Some owners get impatient and do it themselves or start calling board members complaining it’s not getting done as quickly as they desire.
3. If there are high winds, snow removal is a fools errand.
4. You should expect some sod damage and associated owner complaints.
5. If your owners are responsible for the driveways, where are they pushing, blowing and piling snow? They have to put it somewhere. Owners piling snow on sidewalks increases the cost to the HOA.
6. Some of your owners will object to the additional cost. Less than 1/3 your owners are dog walks or avid walkers and they are usually the group pushing sidewalk snow removal.
7. The best service cost more money. There are 2 possibilities for snow contracts - pay per call or prepay for a number of calls per season. The HOA will get better service on a prepaid plan, but if you only need 6 calls, you may find the HOA paying for 10 with 4 unused. Normally service is within 24 hours of storm end. If you opt for pay per call, you may be waiting 48 hours for service.
8. It’s doubtful the city is enforcing its ordinance on single family homes as you have experienced.

I live in an a HOA of single family homes about 2x the size of your HOA. We do driveways and no sidewalks. It is about the singular complaint item the board gets because we can’t make everyone happy. If I were on your board, I would support rescinding the current rule or enforcing it vs engaging in HOA snow removal. If you really don’t want to enforce, start making calls to the city and see if they will enforce their ordinance.

DeanJ
Posts: 1,786
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By ElleN on 02/18/2025 3:34 PM
Posted By CarlS8 on 02/18/2025 11:52 AM
My HOA is located in Lansing Michigan where we can get several large snowfalls each winter. Lansing ordinance requires homeowners to clear snow from their sidewalks within 24 hours of a snowfall. Our HOA Rules
Are these board-created rules? Or covenants? It makes huge difference.
Quote:
Posted By CarlS8 on 02/18/2025 11:52 AM
reference the City ordinance and similarly require homeowners to keep their sidewalks free from snow and ice. Several homeowners ignore the City ordinance and our HOA Rules. A Board Member has proposed that the HOA take on the responsibility and hire a contractor to do snow removal for the 63 free-standing homes in our HOA.
If the HOA takes responsibility, then the HOA takes on more risk of being sued for a slip-and-fall.

There is an insurance crisis in this country, with rates skyrocketing and many insurers rejecting clients. Your board should consider the latter carefully.

Of course, if owners' are not shoveling their sidewalks, and the board/city are not enforcing compliance, this could also get the HOA sued.

According to the Ohio Supreme Court (the folks who recently ruled boneless chicken wings can have bones), any time snow / ice is removed from a sidewalk an obvious hazard is removed and the property owner is liable for personal injures. If the ice and snow is not disturbed, the hazard is obvious and the land owner is not liable for injuries.

Michigan is a duty of care state. Removing snow is a duty of care and the lot owner is responsible for injuries. The HOA needs to address this issue with their attorney vs assuming the HOA accepts liability. I suspect the HOA does not accept the lot owner’s duty of care because they provide limited snow removal service on private property.

ElleN (Idaho)
Posts: 1,334
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By DeanJ on 02/19/2025 9:12 AM

Michigan is a duty of care state. Removing snow is a duty of care and the lot owner is responsible for injuries. The HOA needs to address this issue with their attorney vs assuming the HOA accepts liability.
?

No person or nor entity "accepts liability."

I can guess what you mean but then I would be depriving you of a much-needed lesson in the language of torts.

Quote:
Posted By DeanJ on 02/19/2025 9:12 AM

I suspect the HOA does not accept the lot owner’s duty of care because they provide limited snow removal service on private property.
Yeah? If the HOA formally agreed to do the shoveling, then I know any lawsuit that might emerge from a slip-and-fall would include a claim (cross- or otherwise) against the (deep-pocketed) HOA.

Imagine that: Plaintiff's attorneys going after the deep pockets. Why ever would plaintiff's attorneys do this? /s

Hungry wild dogs see bait. Then they shred bait. Huh.
DeanJ
Posts: 1,786
Posted:
What if the HOA has a regulation stating the walks must be cleared and knowingly fail to enforce? As an owner in your HOA you basically told me you would be taking action to insure this was completed for my safety. The knife cuts both ways.
CathyA3 (Ohio)
Posts: 6,299
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By DeanJ on 02/19/2025 10:27 AM
What if the HOA has a regulation stating the walks must be cleared and knowingly fail to enforce? As an owner in your HOA you basically told me you would be taking action to insure this was completed for my safety. The knife cuts both ways.

We still haven't gotten an answer to my question "who owns the sidewalks?"

If the sidewalks are owned by the homeowners and the snow removal is a city requirement, then the HOA is not the one to enforce that. If the CC&Rs or HOA rules state that owners must clean the sidewalks or the HOA has to ensure community safety, then this changes.

But the dividing line is not clear, even if we do resolve the ownership question. This is one area in which condo communities are actually easier - the association owns the grounds and must care for them.

ElleN (Idaho)
Posts: 1,334
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By DeanJ on 02/19/2025 10:27 AM
What if the HOA has a regulation stating the walks must be cleared and knowingly fail to enforce?
I responded to this in my first post to this thread.
DeanJ
Posts: 1,786
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By ElleN on 02/19/2025 3:30 PM
Posted By DeanJ on 02/19/2025 10:27 AM
What if the HOA has a regulation stating the walks must be cleared and knowingly fail to enforce?
I responded to this in my first post to this thread.

You said if the HOA takes responsibility. Are you saying enacting a rule and a fine schedule requiring snow removal by the owner is taking responsibility to assure my safety on the sidewalks?
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059
Posted:
To answer your question - NO, I do not think the HOA should pay to clear snow from the sidewalks.

They should pay to clear snow on sidewalks that border common area.

To enforce clearing the sidewalks in front of homes, the HOA (or anyone) can simply report the individual to the city/county.

If the owners have physical limitations, neighbors can always pitch in to assist in removing the snow.
ElleN (Idaho)
Posts: 1,334
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By DeanJ on 02/19/2025 9:51 PM
Posted By ElleN on 02/19/2025 3:30 PM
Posted By DeanJ on 02/19/2025 10:27 AM
What if the HOA has a regulation stating the walks must be cleared and knowingly fail to enforce?
I responded to this in my first post to this thread.


You said if the HOA takes responsibility.
Nope. See the last sentence in my first post to this thread.

Quote:
Posted By DeanJ on 02/19/2025 9:51 PM
Are you saying enacting a rule and a fine schedule requiring snow removal by the owner is taking responsibility to assure my safety on the sidewalks?
?

Read CarlS8's first post to this thread. The HOA already has a rule/covenant requiring owners to keep their sidewalks free of snow and ice.

And yes, I am saying that a failure to enforce this rule/covenant does increase the risk of being found liable (in part or in full) for harm done in any slip-and-fall accident yada.
CarlS8 (Michigan)
Posts: 7
Posted:
Update from CarlS8. This is my first experience with HoaTalk.com and it has been very helpful to receive comments from experienced HOA Board Members. To those who responded to my post, your comments are much appreciated, and I offer my thanks to:SheliaH, ElleN, MichaelS56, LetA, CathyA3, DeanJ, and TimB4. My Report to my HOA Board will be based on the following thoughts:
1.Follow and enforce our existing rules. We were elected to do just that, and failure to do so means we are not doing our job.
2.Leverage the City of Lansing's ordinance requiring homeowners to clear their sidewalks of snow, or be faced with large fines. Lansing allows/encourages citizens to file complaints with the City, and the City will respond.
3.Be extra cautious of trying to solve a problem by unnecessarily taking on additional responsibilities. Doing so often leads to a new set of problems; more time and money, homeowner complaints, and additional liability.
4.Be aware of insurance consequences.
5.Balance our problem solving to the magnitude of the problem. If 10% of the homeowners are causing a problem, don't penalize the 90% who act responsibly...focus on the ones causing the problem.
6. Step-up our communication efforts with all of our HOA Members.

Again, thanks!
MarshallT (New York)
Posts: 414
Posted:
From what I've seen, every HOA is different when it comes to snow removal. If the majority of owners want this service and feel the cost is worth the service, then the association should hire a contractor. Just know that when it comes to heavy snowfalls, the company may take some time before sidewalks are cleared. https://www.condocontrol.com/template/hoa-snow-removal/

This sounds like a good solution if several owners simple aren't clearing the sidewalks in front of their homes.
SheliaH (Indiana)
Posts: 6,964
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By CarlS8 on 02/22/2025 12:39 PM
Update from CarlS8.

1.Follow and enforce our existing rules. We were elected to do just that, and failure to do so means we are not doing our job.
3.Be extra cautious of trying to solve a problem by unnecessarily taking on additional responsibilities. Doing so often leads to a new set of problems; more time and money, homeowner complaints, and additional liability.
4.Be aware of insurance consequences.
5.Balance our problem solving to the magnitude of the problem. If 10% of the homeowners are causing a problem, don't penalize the 90% who act responsibly...focus on the ones causing the problem.
6. Step-up our communication efforts with all of our HOA Members.


All of this is the essence of rule enforcement- keep taking this approach and I think your community will do just fine.

Glad you found our comments helpful and don't hesitate to come back if you have other questions. Have a great day!


If it is not right do not do it; if it is not true do not say it. Marcus Aurelius
ElleN (Idaho)
Posts: 1,334
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By CarlS8 on 02/22/2025 12:39 PM
Update from CarlS8. This is my first experience with HoaTalk.com and it has been very helpful to receive comments from experienced HOA Board Members. To those who responded to my post, your comments are much appreciated, and I offer my thanks to:SheliaH, ElleN, MichaelS56, LetA, CathyA3, DeanJ, and TimB4. My Report to my HOA Board will be based on the following thoughts:
1.Follow and enforce our existing rules. We were elected to do just that, and failure to do so means we are not doing our job.
2.Leverage the City of Lansing's ordinance requiring homeowners to clear their sidewalks of snow, or be faced with large fines. Lansing allows/encourages citizens to file complaints with the City, and the City will respond.
3.Be extra cautious of trying to solve a problem by unnecessarily taking on additional responsibilities. Doing so often leads to a new set of problems; more time and money, homeowner complaints, and additional liability.
4.Be aware of insurance consequences.
5.Balance our problem solving to the magnitude of the problem. If 10% of the homeowners are causing a problem, don't penalize the 90% who act responsibly...focus on the ones causing the problem.
6. Step-up our communication efforts with all of our HOA Members.

Again, thanks!
I think this post is exceptional in every way.

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