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Anmeities

Started by LetA ā€¢ 23 replies ā€¢ 206 views

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LetA (Nevada)
Posts: 2,679
Posted:
If an amenity has reached a point where it is too cost prohibitive to maintain and parts are no longer made, parts
cannot be fabricated or retrofitted should the decision to remove said amenity go to the members?

For the most part, this amenity was installed by the declarant 18 years ago and for the last 3 years has been difficult to operate
because either water supply won't feed the amenity, timer, on off etc. For something when it was opperational was misused and abused
I feel it would be better to rip it out and pour concrete in the area. I hazard to guess to replace the amenity will be about 50K.

LmT (California)
Posts: 237
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By LetA on 02/10/2025 9:30 PM
If an amenity has reached a point where it is too cost prohibitive to maintain and parts are no longer made, parts
cannot be fabricated or retrofitted should the decision to remove said amenity go to the members?

For the most part, this amenity was installed by the declarant 18 years ago and for the last 3 years has been difficult to operate
because either water supply won't feed the amenity, timer, on off etc. For something when it was opperational was misused and abused
I feel it would be better to rip it out and pour concrete in the area. I hazard to guess to replace the amenity will be about 50K.


Iā€™m going to be the first to make a guess here. Is this a fountain?
LetA (Nevada)
Posts: 2,679
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By LmT on 02/10/2025 10:07 PM
Posted By LetA on 02/10/2025 9:30 PM
If an amenity has reached a point where it is too cost prohibitive to maintain and parts are no longer made, parts
cannot be fabricated or retrofitted should the decision to remove said amenity go to the members?

For the most part, this amenity was installed by the declarant 18 years ago and for the last 3 years has been difficult to operate
because either water supply won't feed the amenity, timer, on off etc. For something when it was opperational was misused and abused
I feel it would be better to rip it out and pour concrete in the area. I hazard to guess to replace the amenity will be about 50K.



Iā€™m going to be the first to make a guess here. Is this a fountain?

Splash Pad, As anal as the State Legislature and the water district are about water waste, I am surprised they are not illegal.
Even Some water fountains have to meet certain requirements now.
SheliaH (Indiana)
Posts: 6,964
Posted:
Have you checked your documents to see if it addresses removal or addition of amenities? Do that first.

You've probably seen the recent conversation from LmT whose community is debating closing one of three pools because of high costs and low percentage of residents actually using it. I wrote the story of how our community came to getting rid of our pool - we did put it to a vote and after a year and a half, homeowners voted to shut it down. If you see that conversation, I hope some of our story is able to help you.

Bottom line - show the homeowners the numbers, what it will cost to replace (which may or may not require a special assessment) and how it will impact reserves and assessments (which will have to increase). Then let them vote - if they want to keep it, they'll know they'll have to pay for it.
If it is not right do not do it; if it is not true do not say it. Marcus Aurelius
KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550
Posted:
In your docs, LetA, probably in your CC&Rs, look for the language of common area, common area element. "Amenities" might not be there. Look for the Board's authority over them.

You are a. Board member and this common area element is, from what you've written, too costly and time consuming to keep.

Sure, let the member knows that it's getting worse & worse on your budget, would cost $50K to try to replicate. Let them know how much the per household. Inform them that it also affects your master insurance and, of course, your water bill.

KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550
Posted:
In your docs, LetA, probably in your CC&Rs, look for the language of common area, common area element. "Amenities" might not be there. Look for the Board's authority over them.

You are a. Board member and this common area element is, from what you've written, too costly and time consuming to keep.

Sure, let the member knows that it's getting worse & worse on your budget, would cost $50K to try to replicate. Let them know how much the per household. Inform them that it also affects your master insurance and, of course, your water bill.

LetA (Nevada)
Posts: 2,679
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By KerryL1 on 02/11/2025 7:22 AM
In your docs, LetA, probably in your CC&Rs, look for the language of common area, common area element. "Amenities" might not be there. Look for the Board's authority over them.

You are a. Board member and this common area element is, from what you've written, too costly and time consuming to keep.

Sure, let the member knows that it's getting worse & worse on your budget, would cost $50K to try to replicate. Let them know how much the per household. Inform them that it also affects your master insurance and, of course, your water bill.




The CC&R'a are about clear as mud, have to revert to NRS 116. The wimps way out would be for the water authority to ban them or deny new permits
to build new or rebuild them.

ElleN (Idaho)
Posts: 1,333
Posted:
LetA, got an estimate of the cost to "remove"?
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059
Posted:
Expecting that this is a board decision, I would hold meetings for feedback on the possibility of closing.
Have facts and figures ready and lots of public relations work.

If you don't like meetings, send out a survey.

Identify the cost to replace and, if needed, the special assessment required to make this happen.
MarshallT (New York)
Posts: 414
Posted:
Whatever the community decides, in most cases, the owners would be entitled to vote since this is a capital improvement project. https://www.condocontrol.com/blog/getting-rid-of-hoa-amenities/

Do people enjoy using the splash pad when it is operational? That will largely determine if it stays or goes.

I would suggest crunching the numbers to help members make an informed decision. Find out what it would cost to remove the amenity and remote the area. What would it cost to try and maintain it for the next 5 years?
LetA (Nevada)
Posts: 2,679
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By MarshallT on 02/12/2025 7:37 AM
Whatever the community decides, in most cases, the owners would be entitled to vote since this is a capital improvement project. https://www.condocontrol.com/blog/getting-rid-of-hoa-amenities/

Do people enjoy using the splash pad when it is operational? That will largely determine if it stays or goes.

I would suggest crunching the numbers to help members make an informed decision. Find out what it would cost to remove the amenity and remote the area. What would it cost to try and maintain it for the next 5 years?

This is all in the works. One of the most annoying things is getting owners to pay attention and participate in something as critical as voting to amend the covenants on issues like this. Do we piss money away beating a dead horse on something that is used by maybe less than 12 families, and there is no way to gauge if the splash pad is being abused by kids taking the key and turning it on and walking away. landscaping rocks make their way into the jets and at least once a year the lockset to the unit is damaged resulting in a service call. People don't do this amount of damage to their own personal property, yet these amenities are. They treat community property as if the HOA is some mega corporation with deep pockets.
KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550
Posted:
Why do you think a vote to amend the convents would be needed, LetA?

Exactly what Article would need to be amended and what would the new wording be?
SheliaH (Indiana)
Posts: 6,964
Posted:
Then make your case and show the numbers. Unfortunately, people can and do make crazy decisions, so if homeowners don't care about paying more and more in repair costs for a handful of people who use the thing, you may have no choice but to accept it.
If it is not right do not do it; if it is not true do not say it. Marcus Aurelius
ElleN (Idaho)
Posts: 1,333
Posted:
Oh no. This is a water device for kids and adults that helps beat the heat. This is bad news.

I say: Lay out the expenses to owners in a Special Meeting and Special Mailing. Rinse and repeat. Then definitely take an owners' vote. For all the usual reasons.
KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550
Posted:
I'm still wondering why LetA thinks eliminating this requires an amendment to his covenants. Is this amenities somehow listed in your covenants, LetA?
LetA (Nevada)
Posts: 2,679
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By ElleN on 02/12/2025 4:45 PM
Oh no. This is a water device for kids and adults that helps beat the heat. This is bad news.

I say: Lay out the expenses to owners in a Special Meeting and Special Mailing. Rinse and repeat. Then definitely take an owners' vote. For all the usual reasons.

Plot Twist, we do have a swimming pool and a nearby public park and rec has a much nicer one.
LetA (Nevada)
Posts: 2,679
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By KerryL1 on 02/12/2025 7:02 PM
I'm still wondering why LetA thinks eliminating this requires an amendment to his covenants. Is this amenities somehow listed in your covenants, LetA?

I,m only going by what our guidance councilor aka PM says. Probably one of the reasons why we need to part ways.
ElleN (Idaho)
Posts: 1,333
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By LetA on 02/12/2025 7:53 PM
Posted By KerryL1 on 02/12/2025 7:02 PM
I'm still wondering why LetA thinks eliminating this requires an amendment to his covenants. Is this amenities somehow listed in your covenants, LetA?


I,m only going by what our guidance councilor aka PM says. Probably one of the reasons why we need to part ways.
Nah. The guidance counselor knows that the HOA's obligation to maintenance amenities is prominent in the covenants. "Maintenance" does not equate to "removal." And so on.
ElleN (Idaho)
Posts: 1,333
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By ElleN on 02/12/2025 10:00 PM
The guidance counselor knows that the HOA's obligation to maintenance amenities
Post-o. Above substitute "maintain" for "maintenance"
KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550
Posted:
Your community mgr. very well does NOT know how to interpret your covenants re: this topic. Consult with your HOA attorney.

No reputable HOA attorney is going to tell you to keep putting owners' dues into this worn out amenity w/replacement parts unavailable.

I, as I indicate above agree with Shelia and Tim. Gather the appropriate* info and present to Owners at a Town Hall meeting with plenty of Q & A. This would not be a special meeting of the Board.

* That nice facility is nearby is not relevant.
LetA (Nevada)
Posts: 2,679
Posted:
So, follow along.
If a pool heater is an amenity, heating the pool in the cold months, removing the heater and not putting it
to a vote of the members is ok, but removing a splash pad with components that are obsolete would have to go to
a vote of the members.

Again don't pee on my leg and say it's raining.
ElleN (Idaho)
Posts: 1,333
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By LetA on 02/15/2025 11:12 AM
So, follow along.
If a pool heater is an amenity, heating the pool in the cold months, removing the heater and not putting it
to a vote of the members is ok, but removing a splash pad with components that are obsolete would have to go to
a vote of the members.
I am doubting these comments of yourself saying the parts are not available. Why? Because if the splash pad cannot be repaired, then it cannot be repaired.

Is the splash pad functional right now, or not? By any chance is your question really:

Should the HOA tear out a non-functioning splash pad (with repair parts no longer available) and replace it with concrete or grass, and if so, is an owners' vote required to do so? Or should the HOA replace the non-functioning splash pad with a different splash pad for which parts are available, with no owners' vote required?
KellyM3 (North Carolina)
Posts: 2,239
Posted:
In reality, if there is no demand for a splash pad by the current owners, then removal is optimal for safety and liability purposes.

If there is a demand, then a new splash pad should be installed for safety and legal purposes. Owners, and their representative HOA board, should be be bound to supporting a literal, unused mechanism. The legal "risk" of removing the amenity was triggered when it was never repaired.....and no one said anything.

Even if sued successfully, the installation of a new splash pad is the remedy and the demolition of the old pad is already complete. That's how I'd do it in this case but NEVER for a clearly usable and used amenity. Those should be maintained, repaired and replaced.

LetA (Nevada)
Posts: 2,679
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By ElleN on 02/15/2025 11:26 AM
Posted By LetA on 02/15/2025 11:12 AM
So, follow along.
If a pool heater is an amenity, heating the pool in the cold months, removing the heater and not putting it
to a vote of the members is ok, but removing a splash pad with components that are obsolete would have to go to
a vote of the members.
I am doubting these comments of yourself saying the parts are not available. Why? Because if the splash pad cannot be repaired, then it cannot be repaired.

Is the splash pad functional right now, or not? By any chance is your question really:

Should the HOA tear out a non-functioning splash pad (with repair parts no longer available) and replace it with concrete or grass, and if so, is an owners' vote required to do so? Or should the HOA replace the non-functioning splash pad with a different splash pad for which parts are available, with no owners' vote required?

If parts were available any competent vendor should be able to, fix, repair or replace the defective components.

To my knowledge it hasn't worked in a couple of years. Someone keeps breaking the key to activate the pad
and the water supply to the pad was shut off and nobody knows where that supply line is.
I will likely call some big gun pool installers and get some information, maybe a free inspection before work is performed
to get the pad functional and if it is worth repairing.

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