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Need Explanation common area use.

Started by CS10 • 24 replies • 273 views

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CS10 (Maryland)
Posts: 33
Posted:
Hello,

Need explanation

We have this in Declaration of Covenants, Conditions, Restrictions and Easements
"No Owner shall make any private, inclusive, or proprietary use of any of the HOA Area."

Does that mean there shouldn't be any income ?

Is that the reason why Pool Management were required to hire non-residents lifeguard ?
They were given permission to hire resident when lifeguard shortage was there.
ElleN (Idaho)
Posts: 1,334
Posted:
The covenant prohibits any owner from using common area as if it were owned solely by the owner.

A resident or owner hired as a lifeguard for the HOA-owned pool is not violating this covenant.
CS10 (Maryland)
Posts: 33
Posted:
"No Owner shall make any private, inclusive, or proprietary use of any of the HOA Area."

What if swim team Parent rep has his kid getting paid as assistance coach ?

Thanks
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059
Posted:
As Ellen pointed out.

The language means that an owner can't make common area their own.

A couple of examples:
Fence in common area to extend their property
Build a shed or other structure on common area

It does not exclude the association from renting out common elements for a specific time frame.

As for life guards, the issue could simply be liability.

Having a contract with a company to provide life guards can minimize some liability to the Association.

Hiring someone directly makes them an employee and can increase liability if proper training isn't given.
Hiring someone directly may also have tax implications.

Who is paid as a coach for the swim team is not an HOA issue unless it is an HOA swim team.
ElleN (Idaho)
Posts: 1,334
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By CS10 on 01/18/2025 11:55 AM
"No Owner shall make any private, inclusive, or proprietary use of any of the HOA Area."

What if swim team Parent rep has his kid getting paid as assistance coach ?
The swim team parent is not using the swim pool as if it were owned solely by him/herself. Neither is the kid.
KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550
Posted:
WHO is paying the swim team kid??/
LetA (Nevada)
Posts: 2,679
Posted:
Now you say this person is a paid assistant coach??? I am confused. First, No HOA should ever hire an owner to perform contracted duties
for the HOA because it is a conflict of interest. Second, if an HOA hires a lifeguard, they must meet the local permitting and licensing
standards. Usually HOA's opt to hire security guards for this function.

Now if the homeowner is having swim meets at the pool, then there is a problem because now the homeowner is monopolizing the pool as their own
and would be in violation of the covenant that you mentioned in your first post.
DeanJ
Posts: 1,786
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By LetA on 01/18/2025 2:22 PM
Now you say this person is a paid assistant coach??? I am confused. First, No HOA should ever hire an owner to perform contracted duties
for the HOA because it is a conflict of interest. Second, if an HOA hires a lifeguard, they must meet the local permitting and licensing
standards. Usually HOA's opt to hire security guards for this function.

Now if the homeowner is having swim meets at the pool, then there is a problem because now the homeowner is monopolizing the pool as their own
and would be in violation of the covenant that you mentioned in your first post.

So you in my community and se need electrical work done. You are a licensed electrician and submit a bid along with 3 other companies. You have the best bid and are well regarded in the trade. Why is it the board can’t hire you?

Hiring or contracting an owner in the community is not a conflict of interest unless they are an officer or board member or related to an officer or board member when undue influence can be a factor.

CS10 (Maryland)
Posts: 33
Posted:
Swim team uses HOA pool, they are non profit public entity. They don't pay anything to HOA. They take registration money from resident and non resident. They pay assistance coaches.
CS10 (Maryland)
Posts: 33
Posted:
Swim team uses HOA pool, they are non profit public entity. They don't pay anything to HOA. They take registration money from resident and non resident. They pay assistance coaches.
CS10 (Maryland)
Posts: 33
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By LetA on 01/18/2025 2:22 PM
Now you say this person is a paid assistant coach??? I am confused. First, No HOA should ever hire an owner to perform contracted duties
for the HOA because it is a conflict of interest. Second, if an HOA hires a lifeguard, they must meet the local permitting and licensing
standards. Usually HOA's opt to hire security guards for this function.

Now if the homeowner is having swim meets at the pool, then there is a problem because now the homeowner is monopolizing the pool as their own
and would be in violation of the covenant that you mentioned in your first post.

Swim team uses HOA pool, they are non profit public entity. They don't pay anything to HOA. They take registration money from resident and non resident. They pay assistance coaches.

Lifeguard question was separate as to why there shouldn't be any resident as lifeguard. But same kid who is assistance coach is life guard also.
CS10 (Maryland)
Posts: 33
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By KerryL1 on 01/18/2025 1:58 PM
WHO is paying the swim team kid??/

Swim team uses HOA pool, they are non profit public entity. They don't pay anything to HOA. They take registration money from resident and non resident. They pay assistance coaches.

(sorry for multiple replies above.)
KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550
Posted:


When the swim team uses the pool, do they have itfor themsleves? No other residents are allowed to us it????
CS10 (Maryland)
Posts: 33
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By KerryL1 on 01/18/2025 10:43 PM

When the swim team uses the pool, do they have itfor themsleves? No other residents are allowed to us it????

Yes they dont allow anyone else .
TerriS6 (California)
Posts: 3,284
Posted:
Looks like whoever is allowing the team to use the pool to the exclusion of members is violating the CC&Rs.
DeanJ
Posts: 1,786
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By CS10 on 01/18/2025 11:35 AM
Hello,

Need explanation

We have this in Declaration of Covenants, Conditions, Restrictions and Easements
"No Owner shall make any private, inclusive, or proprietary use of any of the HOA Area."

Does that mean there shouldn't be any income ?

Is that the reason why Pool Management were required to hire non-residents lifeguard ?
They were given permission to hire resident when lifeguard shortage was there.

I interpret the section to mean you can’t reserve any of the common area for your exclusive use. Why you have a swim team using your HOA pool is a bit baffling. The purpose of have a pool in an HOA is to have a private facility for the owners.
KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550
Posted:
Thanks for answering my question, CS10.. Terri & Dean see an I'mortant issue here.

You CC&Rs state: "No Owner shall make any private, inclusive, or proprietary use of any of the HOA Area." This means that the Swim Team may NOT use the pool exclusively. with no other resents allowed during those times.

So now, WHO, gave the Swim Team such permission to hoard it Xx hours a week? Usually it would be the Board of directors? To learn more you might ask your community manager--in writing-- if you have one, to please show you the meeting minutes or other document that gives the ST this exclusive access.

Or, if your Board is required to have open meetings, attend and ask the Board: "Why does the Swim Team have exclusive use of th pool that keeps residents out? According to our CC&Rs , no owner may have private use of the pool."*

*I'm assuming that some alt involved with the swim team IS an owner/resident.
ElleN (Idaho)
Posts: 1,334
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By KerryL1 on 01/19/2025 10:20 AM
Terri & Dean see an I'mortant issue here.
The issue in question was discussed at length in another thread. See https://www.hoatalk.com/Forum/tabid/55/forumid/1/postid/376309/view/topic/Default.aspx
CS10 (Maryland)
Posts: 33
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By KerryL1 on 01/19/2025 10:20 AM
Thanks for answering my question, CS10.. Terri & Dean see an I'mortant issue here.

You CC&Rs state: "No Owner shall make any private, inclusive, or proprietary use of any of the HOA Area." This means that the Swim Team may NOT use the pool exclusively. with no other resents allowed during those times.

So now, WHO, gave the Swim Team such permission to hoard it Xx hours a week? Usually it would be the Board of directors? To learn more you might ask your community manager--in writing-- if you have one, to please show you the meeting minutes or other document that gives the ST this exclusive access.

Or, if your Board is required to have open meetings, attend and ask the Board: "Why does the Swim Team have exclusive use of th pool that keeps residents out? According to our CC&Rs , no owner may have private use of the pool."*

*I'm assuming that some alt involved with the swim team IS an owner/resident.

Thank you getting ready to bring it up.
CS10 (Maryland)
Posts: 33
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By ElleN on 01/19/2025 10:33 AM
Posted By KerryL1 on 01/19/2025 10:20 AM
Terri & Dean see an I'mortant issue here.
The issue in question was discussed at length in another thread. See https://www.hoatalk.com/Forum/tabid/55/forumid/1/postid/376309/view/topic/Default.aspx

Thank you all for your input, while presenting this to Board couple things came in mind so posted here for answers.
TerriS6 (California)
Posts: 3,284
Posted:
Excuse me if this was said already but normally, allowing exclusive use of any part of the common area requires a vote of the membership.
LetA (Nevada)
Posts: 2,679
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By CS10 on 01/19/2025 7:07 AM
Posted By KerryL1 on 01/18/2025 10:43 PM

When the swim team uses the pool, do they have itfor themsleves? No other residents are allowed to us it????


Yes they dont allow anyone else .

You're lucky so far the HOA is not being sued, this is a direct violation of the CC&R's. Let the swim team find a rec center, high school or Y with a pool
that can be reserved "exclusively" for them.
LetA (Nevada)
Posts: 2,679
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By CS10 on 01/19/2025 11:07 AM
Posted By ElleN on 01/19/2025 10:33 AM
Posted By KerryL1 on 01/19/2025 10:20 AM
Terri & Dean see an I'mortant issue here.
The issue in question was discussed at length in another thread. See https://www.hoatalk.com/Forum/tabid/55/forumid/1/postid/376309/view/topic/Default.aspx


Thank you all for your input, while presenting this to Board couple things came in mind so posted here for answers.

If your insurance carrier finds out about this they will drop you like a hot potato. This is very dangerous waters "pun intended"
for the board and homeowners to be dabbling in. What would happen if someone on the swim team was injured or killed in the pool, Every homeowner
could lose their home. Don't think it could happen, Just look at what happened to the Lamplighter HOA in Las Vegas due to the HOA BOD Negligence.
A court ruled for the plaintiff that was a staggering amount of money that every homeowner nearly lost their home. Gratefully the plaintiff wasn't
that greedy and negotiated a lower settlement.

One of these days someone is not going to be that forgiving.
CS10 (Maryland)
Posts: 33
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By LetA on 01/19/2025 11:37 AM
Posted By CS10 on 01/19/2025 11:07 AM
Posted By ElleN on 01/19/2025 10:33 AM
Posted By KerryL1 on 01/19/2025 10:20 AM
Terri & Dean see an I'mortant issue here.
The issue in question was discussed at length in another thread. See https://www.hoatalk.com/Forum/tabid/55/forumid/1/postid/376309/view/topic/Default.aspx


Thank you all for your input, while presenting this to Board couple things came in mind so posted here for answers.


If your insurance carrier finds out about this they will drop you like a hot potato. This is very dangerous waters "pun intended"
for the board and homeowners to be dabbling in. What would happen if someone on the swim team was injured or killed in the pool, Every homeowner
could lose their home. Don't think it could happen, Just look at what happened to the Lamplighter HOA in Las Vegas due to the HOA BOD Negligence.
A court ruled for the plaintiff that was a staggering amount of money that every homeowner nearly lost their home. Gratefully the plaintiff wasn't
that greedy and negotiated a lower settlement.

One of these days someone is not going to be that forgiving.

One incident did happen in past during swim meet, One kick boarder started drowning was saved by volunteer before lifeguard can come.
CS10 (Maryland)
Posts: 33
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By LetA on 01/19/2025 11:37 AM
Posted By CS10 on 01/19/2025 11:07 AM
Posted By ElleN on 01/19/2025 10:33 AM
Posted By KerryL1 on 01/19/2025 10:20 AM
Terri & Dean see an I'mortant issue here.
The issue in question was discussed at length in another thread. See https://www.hoatalk.com/Forum/tabid/55/forumid/1/postid/376309/view/topic/Default.aspx


Thank you all for your input, while presenting this to Board couple things came in mind so posted here for answers.


If your insurance carrier finds out about this they will drop you like a hot potato. This is very dangerous waters "pun intended"
for the board and homeowners to be dabbling in. What would happen if someone on the swim team was injured or killed in the pool, Every homeowner
could lose their home. Don't think it could happen, Just look at what happened to the Lamplighter HOA in Las Vegas due to the HOA BOD Negligence.
A court ruled for the plaintiff that was a staggering amount of money that every homeowner nearly lost their home. Gratefully the plaintiff wasn't
that greedy and negotiated a lower settlement.

One of these days someone is not going to be that forgiving.

One incident did happen in past during swim meet, One kick boarder started drowning was saved by volunteer before lifeguard can come.

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