HomeOwner's BOD

Started by ElanaT • 57 replies • 425 views

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ElanaT (Illinois)
Posts: 23

Posted:

We had a meeting with the homeowner's board and the President was very rude. I met him for the first time and did some research and found out that he had a previous murder conviction and was sentenced to jail for 20 years. I found tons of information on the internet about this case. What steps can I take to notify the other homeowners and remove him from the board? Also, I believe he is very dangerous to the community. Please advise.

ElleN (Idaho)
Posts: 1,338

Posted:

ElanaT, serving as President and serving as a director on the board are different roles. One person may serve simultaneously as a director and President, but this is not necessarily the case here.

Was this man elected to serve as a director by the owners? If so, then the only way to remove him as director prior to the end of his director term is through a recall then new election or possibly via a statute violation. So far I see nothing in Illinois that says felons cannot serve on HOA/condo boards.

Do the bylaws require that the President first be elected to the board of directors?

Is this a condominium?

Is this association also a corporation?

Try to answer all questions people here put to you. Please use the name of the person to whom you are addressing a response.

Welcome to the forum.

ElanaT (Illinois)
Posts: 23

Posted:

ElleN, thank you for your replies. I don't know if he chose to be a director first, this is my second year living here. I was told that under our laws, as long as you own the property, you can be a board member, they don't check your criminal history. Can I request a new election in this case? How can I properly bring this to the association? I'm a little afraid for my life as this guy is really dangerous. This is a townhouse complex. I would be glad if someone could tell me what are the next steps I should take? Also, how do I get this information out to the other homeowners who don't know that he was in jail for committing murder? It happened when he was 19 years old, after which he was sent to prison for about 20 years, and he was released over 15 years ago.... Thank you again for your support.

TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,061

Posted:

As to what you can do - realistically, not much at this time.

The easiest thing to do would be to gather support and elect someone else (perhaps you) to the board at the next election.
Of course, if not many willing to serve, then you only get those who are willing.

In telling others about this, do not embellish anything. Simply stick to the facts you know and let others draw their own conclusions. Keep in mind that the more this comes out, that individual may or may not act out.

If the individual made threats against you, you can seek legal advise in obtaining a restraining order.

Now to play devils advocate:

Did you do research on the individual prior to meeting him or after?

If you did research prior, did you bring any of this up at your meeting (as that may very well be the reason he was, what you would consider, rude to you)?

If you did research after the meeting, you should ask yourself what really prompted you to do that research (the rudeness, the outcome of the meeting, etc.)? What is the real issue?

Is it possible that his life experiences, being different than yours, simply has him behaving differently then you would expect?

You certainly don't have to answer these questions on the forum but you should ask and answer them to yourself.

TerriS6 (California)
Posts: 3,284

Posted:

Do you have election rules? Does your board have director's and officers insurance? Here we are allowed to disqualify a director if he/she has a criminal conviction that would impact our ability to maintain insurance, if it is incorporated into our election rules. Maybe check with the association's insurance providers to see if that conviction makes a difference. Or check with a different insurance provider for your own protection.

ElleN (Idaho)
Posts: 1,338

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By ElanaT on 01/16/2025 6:23 PM
ElleN, thank you for your replies. I don't know if he chose to be a director first,

Quote:

Posted By ElanaT on 01/16/2025 6:23 PM
this is my second year living here. I was told that under our laws, as long as you own the property, you can be a board member, they don't check your criminal history.

This is because all the signs are that in Illinois having a felony conviction does not disqualify one from serving as an officer (meaning President, VP, treasurer or secretary) or director.

Can I request a new election in this case? How can I properly bring this to the association? I'm a little afraid for my life as this guy is really dangerous.

Quote:

Posted By ElanaT on 01/16/2025 6:23 PM
It happened when he was 19 years old, after which he was sent to prison for about 20 years, and he was released over 15 years ago

Some states have some limited laws protecting the privacy of the felon when the conviction was this long ago. On the one hand in my opinion you have to tread carefully. On the other hand I think the rest of the board needs to know. Why? Because I too am quite concerned about the insurer's position on this. The net has more to say on this. Google {insurer felon HOA Board} and you will see what I mean.

For your protection, consider sending an anonymous email to the board, solely asking questions. For example:

Dear Board of Directors,

Numerous reports appear on the net about a certain "John Smith" [insert the name of the person convicted for murder]. The reports say this person was convicted of murder many years ago. For example, see ___, ____ and ___ [provide links].

Was the Board aware of this? Does the insurer need to be informed of these reports about a person named ____, where a person with the same name is now serving as HOA President (and director?)? I understand insurers might sometimes deny coverage in cases like this.

I regret having to bring this to your attention. But I would feel remiss if I did not.

Signed,

Anonymous

I regret advising an anonymous email. But I am torn. I do not have a better way of protecting both you and the HOA.

DeanJ
Posts: 1,786

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By ElanaT on 01/16/2025 2:48 PM
We had a meeting with the homeowner's board and the President was very rude. I met him for the first time and did some research and found out that he had a previous murder conviction and was sentenced to jail for 20 years. I found tons of information on the internet about this case. What steps can I take to notify the other homeowners and remove him from the board? Also, I believe he is very dangerous to the community. Please advise.

In you live in an HOA where a person who spent 20 years in jail can afford to purchase in, you might want to move.

ElanaT (Illinois)
Posts: 23

Posted:

Tim84, The reason I did research on this person is because I came to a BOD meeting and had some issues with snow removal and wanted to challenge a fine that I felt was unfairly imposed on me- this was discussed after everyone left though. It all started when another homeowner started bringing up snow removal, which was also my issue. He started cutting this person off, not allowing him to finish his sentence. I then also mentioned that snow removal was not being done in a timely manner, and he did not let me finish my sentence and started interrupting me. I told him why he was being disrespectful and not letting us homeowners finish our thoughts, he said because he is the president here and if I don't like something I know where the door is. I told him it is very rude to talk to other homeowners like that, he said I do not welcome to the community because I am against what he is saying. He was extremely testy and rude. That kind attitude was not normal to me and then I get home I started checking on this guy and that is how I found out he committed the murder, and they have YouTube video about this crime.
Are you sure there is nothing I can do at all? No petition? no recall election?

ElanaT (Illinois)
Posts: 23

Posted:

DeanJ, I can't move at the moment. Plus the community itself is very safe, house prices are in their 350K range, to be honest I don't know how he could afford to buy this house in 2013 for 300k considering he was in jail until 2007 or 2008. After that, buttery charges were filed against him, so this guy has quite a few criminal charges. Overall, the community is nice and safe. I talk to the neighbors all the time and they are all nice. I'm sure people just don't know about him. Also, a friend of mine who is a real estate agent helped me run a criminal background check on his name and everything I just said checks out. According to the record, he had a murder, buttery, misdemeanor, and concealing a homicidal death. She has special access to some system to run background checks on a person. Of course, she did it anonymously.

ElanaT (Illinois)
Posts: 23

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By TerriS6 on 01/17/2025 5:54 AM
Do you have election rules? Does your board have director's and officers insurance? Here we are allowed to disqualify a director if he/she has a criminal conviction that would impact our ability to maintain insurance, if it is incorporated into our election rules. Maybe check with the association's insurance providers to see if that conviction makes a difference. Or check with a different insurance provider for your own protection.

Thank you for your response. How do I find out about the insurance policy for directors and officers? Is that something that is stated in by-laws?

ElanaT (Illinois)
Posts: 23

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By DeanJ on 01/17/2025 7:37 AM

In you live in an HOA where a person who spent 20 years in jail can afford to purchase in, you might want to move.

ElanaT (Illinois)
Posts: 23

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By TimB4 on 01/17/2025 1:06 AM
As to what you can do - realistically, not much at this time.

The easiest thing to do would be to gather support and elect someone else (perhaps you) to the board at the next election.
Of course, if not many willing to serve, then you only get those who are willing.

In telling others about this, do not embellish anything. Simply stick to the facts you know and let others draw their own conclusions. Keep in mind that the more this comes out, that individual may or may not act out.

If the individual made threats against you, you can seek legal advise in obtaining a restraining order.

Now to play devils advocate:

Did you do research on the individual prior to meeting him or after?

If you did research prior, did you bring any of this up at your meeting (as that may very well be the reason he was, what you would consider, rude to you)?

If you did research after the meeting, you should ask yourself what really prompted you to do that research (the rudeness, the outcome of the meeting, etc.)? What is the real issue?

Is it possible that his life experiences, being different than yours, simply has him behaving differently then you would expect?

You certainly don't have to answer these questions on the forum but you should ask and answer them to yourself.

Sorry, still learning how to post messages in the best way in this chat...

Tim84, The reason I did research on this person is because I came to a BOD meeting and had some issues with snow removal and wanted to challenge a fine that I felt was unfairly imposed on me- this was discussed after everyone left though. It all started when another homeowner started bringing up snow removal, which was also my issue. He started cutting this person off, not allowing him to finish his sentence. I then also mentioned that snow removal was not being done in a timely manner, and he did not let me finish my sentence and started interrupting me. I told him why he was being disrespectful and not letting us homeowners finish our thoughts, he said because he is the president here and if I don't like something I know where the door is. I told him it is very rude to talk to other homeowners like that, he said I do not welcome to the community because I am against what he is saying. He was extremely testy and rude. That kind attitude was not normal to me and then I get home I started checking on this guy and that is how I found out he committed the murder, and they have YouTube video about this crime.
Are you sure there is nothing I can do at all? No petition? no recall election?

DeanJ
Posts: 1,786

Posted:

On a humorous note, if I had spent 20 years in prison, I would find a complaint about an HOA fine as whining.

ElanaT (Illinois)
Posts: 23

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By ElleN on 01/17/2025 7:27 AM

Posted By ElanaT on 01/16/2025 6:23 PM
ElleN, thank you for your replies. I don't know if he chose to be a director first,

At HOA and condo associations, with one caveat, one does not "choose" to be a director, one has to be elected by the owners as a director. By contrast, once a board is elected by owners, it is the board (not owners) who elect the officers.

Do you understand this? In your communications with the board, you want to keep this difference between officers and directors straight. I'm sorry, it is all new to me. This is the current list of members of the homeowner's BOD, and this criminal is serving as president: President, Treasurer, Secretary, 2 Directors. If you could elaborate on what I need to request association on this portion, I would appreciate it

Quote:

This is because all the signs are that in Illinois having a felony conviction does not disqualify one from serving as an officer (meaning President, VP, treasurer or secretary) or director.
Unforrtunately, it is true.

Can I request a new election in this case? How can I properly bring this to the association? I'm a little afraid for my life as this guy is really dangerous.

What is the evidence that he is dangerous today?

You must be careful of defamation. Yes, it's a fact he has a felony conviction (assuming you did your homework carefully). But to say he is "dangerous" today suggests you are aware of crimes he has committed recently, like in the last few years. Do you know of such crimes (committed recently)? A friend of mine, a managing real estate broker, made some inquiries about him, and this guy not only has a murder case and jail time under his belt, but also charges of “buttery,” conceal of body and several misdemeanors... Misdemeanor and buttery charges were imposed after he got out form the jail

I am not trying to be difficult. I am trying to point out what the HOA attorney might say to you all. Thank you, I appreciate your detailed responses, I just want to approach properly to the association.

Quote:

Posted By ElanaT on 01/16/2025 6:23 PM
It happened when he was 19 years old, after which he was sent to prison for about 20 years, and he was released over 15 years ago

Some states have some limited laws protecting the privacy of the felon when the conviction was this long ago. On the one hand in my opinion you have to tread carefully. On the other hand I think the rest of the board needs to know. Why? Because I too am quite concerned about the insurer's position on this. The net has more to say on this. Google {insurer felon HOA Board} and you will see what I mean.

For your protection, consider sending an anonymous email to the board, solely asking questions. For example:
Thanks for drafting the letter, but how can I get the email addresses of board members? Also, he is on the board and the person who holds the treasurer position is his fellow. Also, how do I send an anonymous email? If you could verify these moments, that would be great! Thanks again.
Dear Board of Directors,

Numerous reports appear on the net about a certain "John Smith" [insert the name of the person convicted for murder]. The reports say this person was convicted of murder many years ago. For example, see ___, ____ and ___ [provide links].

Was the Board aware of this? Does the insurer need to be informed of these reports about a person named ____, where a person with the same name is now serving as HOA President (and director?)? I understand insurers might sometimes deny coverage in cases like this.

I regret having to bring this to your attention. But I would feel remiss if I did not.

Signed,

Anonymous

I regret advising an anonymous email. But I am torn. I do not have a better way of protecting both you and the HOA.

ElleN (Idaho)
Posts: 1,338

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By ElanaT on 01/17/2025 9:14 AM
how can I get the email addresses of board members? Also, he is on the board and the person who holds the treasurer position is his fellow. Also, how do I send an anonymous email?

Send an anonymous USPS letter to all the directors, using their street addresses?

About the treasurer: You can only do so much. Get some "sunshine" on this issue. Then see what happens next.

Think carefully about your next steps. Again I loathe advising sending anonymous letters and emails. I wish someone had a better solution. Keep reading here and let's see if someone does.

MarkM19 (Texas)
Posts: 1,459

Posted:

Elana,
How large is your Association? I am asking because it is possible no one else ran against this person and you really do not have any other candidates.

In my first HOA in Ca. we had what I would consider a bad actor as president (nothing near your guys actions) he was just misusing funds. It took a while before I knew all the facts and I sent out an anonymize letter to our 438 SFH HOA. When it hit his supporters knew it was me and I never denied it. I had proof and made it available if anyone wanted to see it. This was nearly 20 years ago, and technology has changed so much since then. I would think you could create a website with the information you are trying to get out and just post the link in your community and let people find the information on their own.

ElanaT (Illinois)
Posts: 23

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By MarkM19 on 01/17/2025 9:49 AM
Elana,
How large is your Association? I am asking because it is possible no one else ran against this person and you really do not have any other candidates.
Mark, The association is big they have 2 offices in Illinois and Florida.
In my first HOA in Ca. we had what I would consider a bad actor as president (nothing near your guys actions) he was just misusing funds. It took a while before I knew all the facts and I sent out an anonymize letter to our 438 SFH HOA. When it hit his supporters knew it was me and I never denied it. I had proof and made it available if anyone wanted to see it. This was nearly 20 years ago, and technology has changed so much since then. I would think you could create a website with the information you are trying to get out and just post the link in your community and let people find the information on their own.

If you type his name into a search engine on Google and add the word “murder” you can easily find information. They even have youtube video with his face when he was young. I'm wondering why I can't contact the association and demand a petition or a recall vote? I'm sure if homeowners see what he has done, vast majority of them will sign a petition with no questions asked. Also, I've already contacted the association and asked a simple question about whether someone with a felony conviction can serve on the homeowners board and the property manager said yes, as long as he/she owns the home....I can also deliver anonymous letters to homeowners, but eventually they'll know it was me.

TerriS6 (California)
Posts: 3,284

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By ElanaT on 01/17/2025 8:05 AM

Thank you for your response. How do I find out about the insurance policy for directors and officers? Is that something that is stated in by-laws?

As a member, you have a right to copies of insurance policies.

ElanaT (Illinois)
Posts: 23

Posted:

ElleN, Thanks for the anonymous letters option, but I get the impression that Borad won't do anything. I've met with all 5 people, and I see that these two (the president and his fellow treasurer) run the show. All the other members are keeping to themselves. At the last meeting they hardly said anything. Only the criminal president talked most of the time. That's why I was wondering if I could contact the association and ask for a petition or recall vote based on the facts at hand? Not sure if that will do any better but everyone will know the true...

ElanaT (Illinois)
Posts: 23

Posted:

Let me ask association to send me a copy.Thank you

ElanaT (Illinois)
Posts: 23

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By TerriS6 on 01/17/2025 10:10 AM

Posted By ElanaT on 01/17/2025 8:05 AM

Thank you for your response. How do I find out about the insurance policy for directors and officers? Is that something that is stated in by-laws?

As a member, you have a right to copies of insurance policies.

Let me ask association to send me a copy.Thank you

TerriS6 (California)
Posts: 3,284

Posted:

Whatever you do, focus on the way he treats members, not his criminal background unless there is something specific in the law or your governing documents that would disqualify him for having a criminal history.

TerriS6 (California)
Posts: 3,284

Posted:

Scour your candidate qualifications and election procedures. It is quite possible a person like this may have circumvented the legal requirements to be elected.

MarkM19 (Texas)
Posts: 1,459

Posted:

Elana,
Back when I was in the middle of my issue I had talks with our PM and unfortunately, they normally have a working relationship with the president, and most won't rock that boat. I would say the only way you have any chance of getting this done is by working directly with the owners on a recall. Don't expect much help from the PMC. Your other option is to mind your own business and avoid the person and hope that others will do your dirty work down the road. You do not have to attend the board meetings and if you have issues, you can always send notes to the PM and see how they are handled.

In my case I was the treasurer of our board and felt it was my fiduciary duty to expose my president after our board did not do anything.

TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,061

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By ElanaT on 01/17/2025 8:07 AM

Are you sure there is nothing I can do at all? No petition? no recall election?

Not knowing when your elections are, there are the following options:

1) Gather support to recall that one individual or the entire board.
Process would be:
a) A petition is signed by 20% of the lots/units/members (OR the number required within your governing documents) calling for a special meeting of the membership for the purpose of recalling [name] and, if successful, electing new directors (have candidates ready).
b) Submit petition to the board.
c) Board will verify signatures (so have a large amount over the minimum required)
d) If the board determines that their is enough signatures to hold a meeting, they should schedule the meeting complying with notice requirements (typically up to 60 days out).
d-1) if the Board does not call a meeting those on the petition must call the meeting (also complying with notice requirements).
e) Meeting is held. If a quorum is present, a vote may take place.

Note: this process could take several months (2-4) to accomplish.

2) Gather support and simply don't reelect the individual at your next annual meeting

3) Gather support and petition (ask) the board to remove the individual as President (only works if someone else is willing to serve as President) The individual would still be on the Board but would not be running the meetings.

4) Try to live with this issue

5) Sell and move (not always realistic or popular but it is an option)

TristaJ (Texas)
Posts: 96

Posted:

In Texas, if you have a criminal record, you can't serve on the board, if your record is less than 20 years or something. Might want to check your state laws.

TristaJ (Texas)
Posts: 96

Posted:

In Texas, if you have a criminal record, you can't serve on the board, if your record is less than 20 years or something. Might want to check your state laws.

CathyA3 (Ohio)
Posts: 6,299

Posted:

Random thoughts:

* A number of states have been passing laws that protect the rights of felons. These laws may or may not apply to an HOA. You need a legal opinion on this.

* Directors serve at the pleasure of the membership. They can be removed from the board with or without cause. If the membership thinks that a candidate has a stupid haircut, that's good enough. Frivolous for sure, but perfectly legal.

* It's fine to bring this info to the attention of the board, but they can't do anything about it unless your bylaws are very unusual. Normally the board can officially remove a director in very few circumstances - for example, the director has missed three board meetings with no notice. But in that case, the board is simply recognizing that the absent director has resigned by his own actions. This situation is different.

* One thing the board should do in this situation is improve election procedures so that iffy people don't get elected in the future. Things such as a nominating committee could be helpful, but that's not a guarantee. Some committees are incompetent. Some committees use their position to keep out anybody they don't like. And in some states such committees are not permitted. If your bylaws allow nominations from the floor, any kind of pre-election qualifying is probably moot.

* Other than that, the only people who can do something about this are the owners. Vote the bad guy out. Either wait until his term is up and he's antagonized a number of people (the easier option) - or organize a recall-and-replace effort now (more work, more difficult if director hasn't done enough bad things to get people's attention).

ElleN (Idaho)
Posts: 1,338

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By ElanaT on 01/17/2025 10:10 AM
That's why I was wondering if I could contact the association and ask for a petition or recall vote based on the facts at hand?

First steps for getting a recall vote:

-- Read your bylaws. Quote back here exactly what they say about removing directors via a recall. Also quote back here what your bylaws say about calling a special meeting of the owners.

-- Please answer my question: Is this a condominium? Or a neighborhood of single family homes on individual lots? I asked earlier, and I ask again now because it makes a huge difference with regard to removing a director from a board via a special meeting et cetera.

-- Based on what I have read so far, you will have to hire an attorney to be successful removing this director via a recall.

-- As others said, it would probably be better to wait until the next regularly scheduled election.

-- The Illinois nonprofit corporation statute says this, and it is likely relevant:

(c) In the case of a corporation with members entitled to vote for directors, no director may be removed, except as follows:
(1) A director may be removed by the affirmative vote
of two-thirds of the votes present and voted, either in person or by proxy.
(2) No director shall be removed at a meeting of

members entitled to vote unless the written notice of such meeting is delivered to all members entitled to vote on removal of directors. Such notice shall state that a purpose of the meeting is to vote upon the removal of one or more directors named in the notice. Only the named director or directors may be removed at such meeting.

TerriS6 (California)
Posts: 3,284

Posted:

Nobody "has to" hire an attorney.

TerriS6 (California)
Posts: 3,284

Posted:

Illinois case

https://www.chicagobusinesslitigationlawyerblog.com/court-rules-that-hoa-managers-defamation-claims-barred-by-qualified-privilege/

KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550

Posted:

Elana, imo, you need to check. your Bylaws for yourself. Do not trust what you've "heard" or others tell you. Our Bylaws, for instance, state that candidates for the Board must:

"Not have a criminal conviction that would, if the candidate were elected, prevent the Association from purchasing the fidelity bond coverage required by Civil Code Section 5806 or result in the termination of the Association’s existing fidelity bond coverage."

If he's serving legally per your documents, he's just like many other directors and or presidents who are bad people.

The exist way to get rid of him is, like others have said, vote him out at the next election that he runs. You need to gather support from your neighbors.

MarkM19 (Texas)
Posts: 1,459

Posted:

Elana,
Unless I missed it you still have not mentioned how many units are in your HOA and if you have other candidates willing you take this person place yet?

ElanaT (Illinois)
Posts: 23

Posted:

Hey, Mark. Sorry, I haven't gotten back to you yet. If I'm not mistaken, there are 335 of them. I'd be happy to take his place on the BOD if he gets successfully removed. Thank you for responding to me.

MarkM19 (Texas)
Posts: 1,459

Posted:

Elana,
So, you live in a good size community. I was fearing you had under 20 units and no likely volunteers. It is very hard to get rid of someone when nobody else wants the job.

Unfortunately, it may take more than getting the president fired to take his place. If you decide to run and get elected, it will only be to the board. The board will then decide between the elected officials who gets the top spot. If I were you, I would try and make every meeting till something happens and watch how they are done. I would also read all of the Documents that you should have received when you closed on your home. The CC&Rs and Bylaw's are the governing documents and very few people take the time to truly read them. If you truly read and understand them, you will be smarter than most board members. By attending the meetings, you will also be able to tell the board members who are involved and those that are not.

Good things many times do not happen overnight; they happen over time.

ElanaT (Illinois)
Posts: 23

Posted:

Hi Tim, Thank you for providing me with options. Quick question, do you know how I can find the quorum # for the petition if I decide to go this route? If we have 335 units, assuming that as long as I get signatures from 65 people, I should be good to go? The reason I asked is because I have a good relationship with at least 10 neighbors. My sons also play soccer with other boys in the neighborhood. So I'm sure I can get 10-15 homeowners to sign the petition. If I have to go house to house, would it be appropriate for me to ring the bell and explain the reason I'm here and basically tell everyone that the president is convicted and provide the supporting docs? Would that be too much? I'm a little scared for my life and lives of my kids, but at the same time I know he shouldn't run our community...
Speaking of gathering support and just not re-electing him, how can I do that if he is always running, and he did create a very good resume about himself. He describes himself as a hard-working person who works as a shift supervisor and constantly strives to keep costs down for homeowners.

ElanaT (Illinois)
Posts: 23

Posted:

ElanaT (Illinois)
Posts: 23

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By TimB4 on 01/17/2025 2:42 PM

Posted By ElanaT on 01/17/2025 8:07 AM

Are you sure there is nothing I can do at all? No petition? no recall election?

ElanaT (Illinois)
Posts: 23

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By TristaJ on 01/17/2025 6:24 PM
In Texas, if you have a criminal record, you can't serve on the board, if your record is less than 20 years or something. Might want to check your state laws.

Don't the HOA bylaws take precedence over the state bylaws?

TerriS6 (California)
Posts: 3,284

Posted:

No. State laws take precedence over association bylaws.

ElleN (Idaho)
Posts: 1,338

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By ElanaT on 01/18/2025 7:11 PM

Don't the HOA bylaws take precedence over the state bylaws?

As long as the HOA bylaws do not conflict with the state bylaws, the HOA bylaws control.

When there is a genuine conflict between the HOA bylaws and state law, state law controls.

Sometimes identifying when a genuine conflict exists is tricky.

ElleN (Idaho)
Posts: 1,338

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By ElleN on 01/19/2025 8:06 AM

As long as the HOA bylaws do not conflict with the state bylaws, the HOA bylaws control.

Post-o. Change "state bylaws" to "state law."

KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550

Posted:

I'm completely baffled why Elana hasn't checked her HOA's Bylaws.

Is it possible, ELena, that your HOA I not a corporation and so done' have any Byaws?

KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550

Posted:

I'm completely baffled why Elana hasn't checked her HOA's Bylaws.

Is it possible, ELena, that your HOA is not a corporation and so done' have any Byaws?

KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550

Posted:

I'm completely baffled why Elana hasn't checked her HOA's Bylaws.

Is it possible, ELena, that your HOA is not a corporation and so done' have any Byaws?

TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,061

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By ElanaT on 01/18/2025 7:05 PM

Hi Tim, Thank you for providing me with options. Quick question, do you know how I can find the quorum # for the petition if I decide to go this route? If we have 335 units, assuming that as long as I get signatures from 65 people, I should be good to go?

The number of lots that need to be represented in the petition (per the corporate statute - applicable if your assocaition is incorporated) is 20% OR a number identified in your governing documents.

Read your articles of incorporation and your bylaws. Look for a section on special meetings of the membership. If the section does not mention a number needed for members to call a special meeting, then you would need 20% of the lots.

335 lots multiplied by .2 (20%) = 67 LOTS (two owners from the same lot signing the petition only represents one lot)

Signatures must be by lot owners.
Technically, lot owners are those mentioned on the deed.
Every household does not always have spouses on the deed.
You should verify who is on the deed by doing research at your county/city records office (might be available online).

If you don't have the time to verify, I would recommend obtaining signatures representing 70 to 75 lots.

You don't want the petition tossed because you had a non-owner/non-member sign the petition thereby reducing the number of valid lots on the petition.

Quote:

Posted By ElanaT on 01/18/2025 7:05 PM

Quick question, do you know how I can find the quorum #

A quorum is the minimum number needed at a meeting (in person or by proxy) to conduct business.

Your quorum requirements for meetings should be in your governing documents

Quote:

Posted By ElanaT on 01/18/2025 7:05 PM

If I have to go house to house, would it be appropriate for me to ring the bell and explain the reason I'm here and basically tell everyone that the president is convicted and provide the supporting docs?

My understanding is, besides being rude to you, that is the reason you want him removed.
Again, don't embellish.
Let the facts speak for themselves.

Quote:

Posted By ElanaT on 01/18/2025 7:05 PM

I'm a little scared for my life and lives of my kids, but at the same time I know he shouldn't run our community...

You gathering signatures for a petition to remove him from office will get back to him.
That is simply a fact of human nature - people like to gossip.

Every decision has consequences.
Some known - some unknown.

Only you can make this decision.

Quote:

Posted By ElanaT on 01/18/2025 7:05 PM

Speaking of gathering support and just not re-electing him, how can I do that if he is always running, and he did create a very good resume about himself. He describes himself as a hard-working person who works as a shift supervisor and constantly strives to keep costs down for homeowners.

By finding someone who is just as good, or better, as an opposing candidate (perhaps you).
Then, armed with proxy forms, knock on doors,
explain you (or someone) is running for the position,
why they are running, what they hope to achieve that isn't happening now,
and ask if they are going to the meeting.
If they answer yes - respond "I hope I can count on your support"
If they answer no - provide a proxy form and ask to be their proxy representative.

Quote:

Posted By ElanaT on 01/18/2025 7:05 PM

I'm a little scared for my life and lives of my kids, but at the same time I know he shouldn't run our community...

This is why I asked you those questions earlier.

Why do you want this individual off the board?

Is it because they were the voice of the board and were rude to you?
Doesn't sound like a really good reason.

Is it because the board failed to respond to issues of snow removal?
Then you might need gather a lot of support and replace the whole board, as that one individual is only one vote. Your issue may be with the whole board vs. the one individual.

Is it because you found out he was a convicted felon?
What a person is capable of is not necessarily an indication that all other aspects of them are bad.

Personally, I'm not real sure what prompted you to go home after the meeting and research the individual.
Personally, I think it's more then they were rude to you.
However, why doesn't matter.
You now know this information.

As I posted above, only you can make the decision on what to do with the information you found.

ElanaT (Illinois)
Posts: 23

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By TimB4 on 01/20/2025 5:39 AM

Quote:

Posted By ElanaT on 01/18/2025 7:05 PM

Quick question, do you know how I can find the quorum #

A quorum is the minimum number needed at a meeting (in person or by proxy) to conduct business.

Your quorum requirements for meetings should be in your governing documents

Quote:

My understanding is, besides being rude to you, that is the reason you want him removed.
Again, don't embellish.
Let the facts speak for themselves.

Quote:

Posted By ElanaT on 01/18/2025 7:05 PM

I'm a little scared for my life and lives of my kids, but at the same time I know he shouldn't run our community...

Quote:

Posted By ElanaT on 01/18/2025 7:05 PM

I'm a little scared for my life and lives of my kids, but at the same time I know he shouldn't run our community...

Tim, thank you for your responses, please see mine below. I know this may not matter to you, but your answers matter to me and I wanted you to know that I appreciate your support on this issue.

This is why I asked you those questions earlier.

Why do you want this individual off the board?

Is it because they were the voice of the board and were rude to you?
There are 5 members of the board, and honestly, the other 4 are reasonable. Convict is the only one I have a problem with because the way he talks to people is completely disrespectful. I will share a response from association later in the thread. This may not sound like a good reason, but I've dealt with board members at my previous place, and I've never encountered the way this person talks to people. It was absolutely insane to me. he was extremely rude and aggressive. Every homeowner who attended a meeting got interrupted by him including another board member.

Doesn't sound like a really good reason.

Is it because the board failed to respond to issues of snow removal?
Then you might need gather a lot of support and replace the whole board, as that one individual is only one vote. Your issue may be with the whole board vs. the one individual.
Snow removal had nothing to do with it, like I said, another board member very politely explained that per the contract they signed, if it doesn't snow more than 2 inches, we have to shovel ourselves, and that makes sense to me. But he made it sound like he was the one who made that decision, as the mob boss, and anyone who tried to challenge it would face consequences.

Is it because you found out he was a convicted felon? Again, people don't tend to be aggressive and rude for no reason, especially at a board meeting when other homeowners are present and kind of trust them with the choices they've made on behalf of us homeowners.
What a person is capable of is not necessarily an indication that all other aspects of them are bad.

Personally, I'm not real sure what prompted you to go home after the meeting and research the individual.
Personally, I think it's more then they were rude to you.
However, why doesn't matter.
You now know this information.

As I posted above, only you can make the decision on what to do with the information you found.

ElanaT (Illinois)
Posts: 23

Posted:

This is what the association replied to me:
Hi Elana,

I am certain that our manager has had a private conversation with our Board member about their interaction with you. As I have said previously, the only qualification to be a Board member is ownership of a property within the community. We often find ourselves in counseling role of how to de-escalate situations. None of us are perfect at it at all times, and that includes your manager. However, we find that if we all work together, we can improve our interactions when we are respectful and business like. That is always a moving target to achieve.

As for the criminal background issue, I can’t confirm that this is even the same person. Without 100% provable evidence that this is the same person, I would urge you not share this information publicly. If the criminal background does prove to be our same ......, then I would strongly urge you to seek legal counsel on how to proceed. I am making no accusations with this, but if the criminal background is not true, then slander and defamation are also serious matters, and I don’t want you to create any risk for yourself.

Yes, Board members can be removed by first a petition to remove followed by a vote of the membership to remove. However, if the criminal background proves true and correct, I suspect a more private approach to this may be considered and may be effective.

I am not an attorney, and I cannot opine any further on this matter.

ElanaT (Illinois)
Posts: 23

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By ElanaT on 01/23/2025 9:12 PM
This is what the association replied to me:
Hi Elana,

I am certain that our manager has had a private conversation with our Board member about their interaction with you. As I have said previously, the only qualification to be a Board member is ownership of a property within the community. We often find ourselves in counseling role of how to de-escalate situations. None of us are perfect at it at all times, and that includes your manager. However, we find that if we all work together, we can improve our interactions when we are respectful and business like. That is always a moving target to achieve.

As for the criminal background issue, I can’t confirm that this is even the same person. Without 100% provable evidence that this is the same person, I would urge you not share this information publicly. If the criminal background does prove to be our same ......, then I would strongly urge you to seek legal counsel on how to proceed. I am making no accusations with this, but if the criminal background is not true, then slander and defamation are also serious matters, and I don’t want you to create any risk for yourself.

I know 100% that based on the facts and videos I have seen, as well as running a background check based on his information, he is 100% the person in question, this is not slander or defamation

Yes, Board members can be removed by first a petition to remove followed by a vote of the membership to remove. However, if the criminal background proves true and correct, I suspect a more private approach to this may be considered and may be effective.

I am not an attorney, and I cannot opine any further on this matter.
Are there anybody ( non-necessarily attorneys) who could advise me on how I should proceed in this case using a more private and probably more effective approach?

CathyA3 (Ohio)
Posts: 6,299

Posted:

I agree with everything the association said in their reply. You need to consult with an attorney about how to proceed.

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