💬 Join us to post & get advice from 50,000 HOA & Condo leaders.

Create Free Account →

⚡ Takes 30 seconds

Already a member? Log in

TalalK (Washington)
Posts: 3
Posted:
As part of RCW 64.38.045, I requested all ACC requests and the information used to approve those requests. I have also requested a copy of all variances on file and all that have been approved in the last 7 years. The board is refusing to provide them stating they are part of Individual lot files other than those of the requesting owner; which they are not required to provide. I think that is bullshit and want to know if there are any legal cases showing that to I am entitled to those records. I want those records to demonstrate the acc/board is approving similiar projects to mine for board members and other community members but not me.

Here is the part of that subsection which leads me to believe that I have a right to request those records.
4i Materials relied upon by the board or any committee to approve or deny any requests for design or architectural approval for a period of seven years after the decision is made;
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,062
Posted:
Using the statute you cited, I make the following observations [emphasis added]:

(5)(a) Subject to subsections (6) through (8) of this section, and except as provided in (b) of this subsection, all records required to be retained by an association must be made available for examination and copying by all owners, holders of mortgages on the lots, and their respective authorized agents as follows, unless agreed otherwise:

(6) Records retained by an association must have the following information redacted or otherwise removed prior to disclosure:
(h) Individual lot files other than those of the requesting owner;

(8)(a) Except as provided in (b) of this subsection, an association may charge a reasonable fee for producing and providing copies of any records under this section and for supervising the owner's inspection.

(13) This section applies to records in the possession of the association on July 23, 2023, and to records created or maintained after July 23, 2023. An association has no liability under this section for records disposed of prior to July 23, 2023.

Looking at the entire statute:

Per (5) you are allowed to examine and make copies, not have copies provided. In other words, you would need to arrange a time during normal business hours to review the records at a location where the records are kept and make your own copies (without taking the files with you). Pictures, scanners, copy machine.

Per (5)(a) there are exceptions to what you may review.

per 6(h) you are not entitled to information on individual lots (which I interpret as approvals/disapprovals of exterior change requests).

Per (8)(a) if records are copied and provided to you by the Association, you can be charged for those copies and the labor (if paid) involved in making the copies.

Per (13) you are only entitled to records after July 23, 2023 (not before).

SheliaH (Indiana)
Posts: 6,964
Posted:
As Tim noted, you don't have a right to look at the other ACC requests, so if you think you're being singled out, file an appeal with your board. As part of your defense, you could photograph some of the areas with the changes you feel are similar to yours, but that doesn't give you a right to go onto private property. If you can't photograph the area from the street, you'll have to ask the homeowner for permission.

You don't say what you're trying to change or why you were turned down, so start with reviewing your denial letter against your request. Exterior changes from the last 7 years may or may not help your case. You don't know when those changes were made or by who - a previous owner may have done it at a time when the design standards were different or not defined at all, and the board at that time may have been lax in enforcing the design standard(s), but subsequent boards (like the current one?) decided to enact standards and/or enforce what's there. The house could have been built with that design.

Changes in materials, colors, design, etc, can and do change over time, which is why it's helpful for boards to review them periodically. If there aren't any written standards, this could be a situation where your neighbors got approval based on whatever the board felt about the change at the time (and sometimes who was making the request). I'm not suggesting there isn't some selective enforcement going on, but you have to prove it, and just because the last four or five or 10 houses got approval doesn't necessarily mean you should automatically be approved.

There should be a reasonable explanation for the denial - what did you ask for and what were you told? Exterior changes should complement the overall look and design of the community and sometimes people want to make changes that don't make any sense at all (and even that's subjective, depending on who's looking). These are some things to remember as you work on your appeal - start with asking for copies of current and previous design standards. If there are neighbors with similar changes, you could take photos of them, but remember you can't go onto private property - if you can't take the photo from the street, you may need to ask the homeowner for permission. Acutally, that might be better, as you could ask him or her for history on that change, which may also help your case.


If it is not right do not do it; if it is not true do not say it. Marcus Aurelius
TalalK (Washington)
Posts: 3
Posted:
The board doesn't allow review of records. Records are only kept digitally. They only allow for records to be requested. Why would ACC requests and the information used to approve them be private to the lot owner? That doesn't make a lot of sense. I would expect things that would be private to the individual lot file to include notices of violations, fines, delinquencies, and other items like that.

Maybe I am misunderstanding something but it seems counter intuitive to mention it as something that is required to be kept and that can be requested but then only consider it as part of individual lot files.
SheliaH (Indiana)
Posts: 6,964
Posted:
The individual file does include the information you mentioned and probably a little more - none of which is your business because you don't own that house or the others. It's one thing to state there are design standards for changes such as replacing a fence - everyone should know what those standards are, the application process and the appeals process if you're denied.

People get exterior change requests on a variety of things - do you want to wade through 7 years of requests to divide those related to whatever you want to do from everything else? Arguing "you approved the last 12 requests, so why won't you approve mine" doesn't necessarily mean there's bias. Assuming you separated the non-applicable requests, youll still need to look for things like:

Who was on the board when those requests came through? How long ago did it happen?
Have there been any board minutes addressing design standards for what you want? When were these approved?
Did some homeowners resubmit their requests because something wasn't clear?
Did a neighbor object to the change and that had to be cleared up before the change was approved?
Have there been zoning changes that no longer allow the change you want?

After determining all that, you still have to show some sort of bias towards you, so once again, what are you trying to change and why did the board say no? Was it a flat no or were you asked to make some modifications so the board could reconsider your request? If so, what's your objection (e.g. a color they want isn't available, the modifications they want would make the project too expensive)?

If it is not right do not do it; if it is not true do not say it. Marcus Aurelius
TalalK (Washington)
Posts: 3
Posted:
I am 100% willing to go through 7 yeas of requests. The HOA has most of the same board members that approved requests for other homes. This is a smaller community with 80 homes so there may be 100 requests over the 7 year period.

They denied a fence on my lot stating my lot is not allowed to have a fence or wall per the CCRs. There are dozens of homes with fences/walls that are also not permitted to have a fence per the CCRs.

The rules have not changed. The CCRs give the ACC very limited power.
ElleN (Idaho)
Posts: 1,338
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By TalalK on 01/04/2025 3:38 PM
I am 100% willing to go through 7 yeas of requests. The HOA has most of the same board members that approved requests for other homes. This is a smaller community with 80 homes so there may be 100 requests over the 7 year period.

They denied a fence on my lot stating my lot is not allowed to have a fence or wall per the CCRs. There are dozens of homes with fences/walls that are also not permitted to have a fence per the CCRs.

The rules have not changed. The CCRs give the ACC very limited power.
The Washington statute section quoted above denies owners access to individual lot files (unless it is an owner's own file). I differ with TimB4 on what this means when it comes to records requests. In my opinion you are absolutely entitled to view ACC approvals and denials. Nationwide from my general reading about HOA disputes, letting owners view ACC actions is a big deal and should be done. This transparency helps thwart problems just like the one you are having and also much bigger problems.

The problem is that getting the board to agree with you about this records request will take a legal battle.

But let's return to the main issue: You want a fence. The CCRs do not allow a fence. One way or another many homes are in violation of the CCRs. The fact is that this situation, as it stands today, may very well put the board in a pickle. If I were on this board or the ACC, I would feel legally obligated to deny any application for something that violated the covenants as straightforwardly as you describe. Why? Because my job is to enforce the covenants.

With regard to the other fences, I would ask the board to look into this and take action as appropriate. Nationwide past boards have often done things with ACC requests that violate the covenants, because they do not know any better. If an owner has one of these past approvals in his/her file, then future boards are in a legally difficult situation as to what to do going forward. Down the road, many boards issue a formal variance that is good up until the wall or fence is crumbling. In some cases, then the HOA might have the right to deny a new wall or fence.

It is also possible that the board simply does not feel the HOA can afford to fight those owners who put up a fence or wall without any approval.

There are more possibilities.

In my experience your best tack here is to see if the covenant on fences/walls appears to be "abandoned." This has legal meaning. Post back if you want to know more.

If the signs are that the covenant is not "abandoned," then IMO you are not going to get the board to approve your fence. In the latter case, all you can do is put a fence up (unapproved) and see how the board responds.
ElleN (Idaho)
Posts: 1,338
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By ElleN on 01/04/2025 4:02 PM

In my experience your best tack here is to see if the covenant on fences/walls appears to be "abandoned." This has legal meaning.
Start by reading this 2020 Washington state appeals court case:

https://law.justia.com/cases/washington/court-of-appeals-division-i/2020/78430-7.html

Excerpt:

a number of equitable defenses are available to prevent enforcement of a covenant, including abandonment, estoppel, and laches. Mountain Park, 125 Wn.2d at 341.

The defense of abandonment requires evidence that prior covenant violations have “so eroded the general plan as to make enforcement useless and inequitable.” Id. at 342; see also Mt. Baker Park Club, Inc. v. Colcock, 45 Wn.2d No. 77830-7-I, 77401-8-I & 78430-7-I/42

467, 471, 275 P.2d 733 (1954); Ronberg v. Smith, 132 Wash. 345, 352-53, 232 P.
283 (1925). “If a covenant applying to an entire tract has been habitually and
substantially violated so as to create an impression that it has been abandoned,
equity will not enforce the covenant.” Green v. Normandy Park Riviera Section
Cmty. Club, 137 Wn. App. 665, 697, 151 P.3d 1038 (2007), amended on
reconsideration (Apr. 6, 2007). But a few violations of covenants do not constitute
abandonment. Peckham v. Milroy, 104 Wn. App. 887, 890, 17 P.3d 1256 (2001).
“Violations must be material to the overall purpose of the covenant”; minor
violations are insufficient to support abandonment. Mountain Park, 125 Wn.2d at
342.

Generally, whether evidence supports a finding of abandonment is a
question of fact. Green, 137 Wn. App. at 697; see also White v. Wilhelm, 34 Wn.
App. 763, 770, 665 P.2d 407 (1983) (“Applicability of [the abandonment] doctrine,
which is based on estoppel, is a factual determination.”). But at summary
judgment, questions of fact may be determined as a matter of law when reasonable
minds can reach only one conclusion. Miller v. Likins, 109 Wn. App. 140, 144, 34
P.3d 835 (2001).


Then read these:
https://law.justia.com/cases/washington/court-of-appeals-division-i/2016/73832-1.html

https://law.justia.com/cases/washington/supreme-court/1994/61475-0-1.html

https://law.justia.com/cases/washington/supreme-court/1965/37867-1.html

https://law.justia.com/cases/washington/supreme-court/1954/32815-1.html
ElleN (Idaho)
Posts: 1,338
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By TalalK on 01/04/2025 3:38 PM

They denied a fence on my lot stating my lot is not allowed to have a fence or wall per the CCRs. There are dozens of homes with fences/walls that are also not permitted to have a fence per the CCRs.
A Washington state law firm's 2016 summary of the law on abandonment of covenants:

https://brandtlawgroup.com/declaration-provisions/

If you want to ask a lawyer his/her opinion on the fence situation, maybe keep this law firm in mind.

DeanJ
Posts: 1,786
Posted:
The way I interpret the section, prior to 2023 the HOA was not required to keep the records for your inspection.
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,062
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By TalalK on 01/03/2025 10:03 PM

Why would ACC requests and the information used to approve them be private to the lot owner? That doesn't make a lot of sense.

I think the language was intended to keep you from seeing the payment records of your neighbors (privacy issue).
The unintended consequence of that language included the architectural requests.

🎯 You've read this entire discussion

Join the conversation with 50,000 HOA & Condo Leaders:

  • ✓ Ask follow-up questions
  • ✓ Share your experience
  • ✓ Get expert advice
  • ✓ Access 350,000 discussions
Create Free Account →

⚡ Takes 30 seconds

Already a member? Log in here