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NormanK2 (Florida)
Posts: 39
Posted:
Why would an HOA let a property owner put all kinds of Trash in there yard,when it brings down the value of others Peoperty.Some residents call it art and some call in just JUNK you could find at the Dump.Alot of us say its a breeding ground for snakes and Roachers,a Realor told us it effects everyones property value as HOA parks have a repution of having property kept up to its best standing not its worse.
DeanJ
Posts: 1,786
Posted:
Many possibilities.

1. The current or previous boards failed to enact regulations to prohibit it. Now the board must write, adopt and distribute the regulation.
2. A regulation exists, but the board doesn’t have courage to enforce it.
3. The board does not share your view the stuff is trash.
4. The board believes they lack community support for enforcing and regulation.
5. The board is lawyer aversive and fears legal bills.
6. No one has given the board a complaint and the board”s policy is not to take actions without one. Have you given a written complaint?
TerriS6 (California)
Posts: 3,284
Posted:
Do your governing documents prohibit nuisances? Does your local government (city/town/county) prohibit nuisances? If it attracts vermin, it's a nuisance and should be abated.
GregoryT1
Posts: 315
Posted:
I have a question on the art vs junk comment. Is this a trash issue or someone displaying art on their lawn and you are objecting to it.
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059
Posted:
Keeping in mind that what is considered art is subjective.
SheliaH (Indiana)
Posts: 6,964
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By DeanJ on 12/16/2024 10:58 PM
Many possibilities.

1. The current or previous boards failed to enact regulations to prohibit it. Now the board must write, adopt and distribute the regulation.
2. A regulation exists, but the board doesn’t have courage to enforce it.
3. The board does not share your view the stuff is trash.
4. The board believes they lack community support for enforcing and regulation.
5. The board is lawyer aversive and fears legal bills.
6. No one has given the board a complaint and the board”s policy is not to take actions without one. Have you given a written complaint?

And don't forget homeowners can enforce CCRs against individual neighbors. The homeowner might also have other things going on (like major medical illness) that makes exterior maintenance. Have YOU even tried to approach this neighbor to see what's going on? It can be faster and more effective to resolve the problem that way - and if not, you've started the process of approaching the board, city, etc., on what you tried to do to address the problem (let the neighbor explain why he/she blew off concerned neighbors or has let the property turn into a mini dump).

If it is not right do not do it; if it is not true do not say it. Marcus Aurelius
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By NormanK2 on 12/16/2024 7:41 PM

Why would an HOA let a property owner put all kinds of Trash in there yard,when it brings down the value of others Property.

Good Question.

What did your HOA Board say when you asked them?
ElleN (Idaho)
Posts: 1,334
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By NormanK2 on 12/16/2024 7:41 PM
Why would an HOA let a property owner put all kinds of Trash in there yard,when it brings down the value of others Peoperty.
Possibilities:

1.
No covenant that speaks to what owners may put in their front yards. If there is a covenant that speaks to front yards, feel free to quote it.

2.
The HOA Board consists of volunteers disinterested in enforcing any covenant concerning front yard appearance.

3.
The HOA Board has found its budget is so limited, and the cost of enforcement so expensive (often requiring an attorney) that it is not enforcing some covenants. Instead the HOA Board tells owners like yourself that you have a right to take a neighbor to court to enforce covenants. Owners can also sue the board for non-enforcement. The owners may or may not win the suit.

Best solution:
Get on the board with people who feel as you do.
KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550
Posted:
Read your covenants (also known as CC&Rs; declaration; deed restrictions) to see if there's anything about the maintainance of front yards. If there is, tell us exactly what the words say.

Instead, your HOA might also have Rules or Rules and Regulations. THEY might say something about front yards. Tell us exactly what they say. Thank you Norman.
KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550
Posted:
Read your covenants (also known as CC&Rs; declaration; deed restrictions) to see if there's anything about the maintainance of front yards. If there is, tell us exactly what the words say.

Instead, your HOA might also have Rules or Rules and Regulations. THEY might say something about front yards. Tell us exactly what they say. Thank you Norman.
JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By TimB4 on 12/17/2024 6:12 AM
Posted By NormanK2 on 12/16/2024 7:41 PM

Why would an HOA let a property owner put all kinds of Trash in there yard,when it brings down the value of others Property.


Good Question.

What did your HOA Board say when you asked them?

I agree. Ask the BOD.
BarbaraT3 (Texas)
Posts: 5
Posted:
Some variation of this question gets asked frequently at community meetings. Owners assume that if a violation is present, it must be because the association allows it and has made no effort to resolve it.

The people who make this assumption tend to be the sort of people who respect rules and follow them. If they got a letter from their HOA, they'd go fix whatever the problem was.

The people breaking the rules are not like that. They don't care. They get violation letters and ignore them, assuming they open them at all.

If the association has the authority to fine, the owner might get fined. But many states don't allow foreclosure for fines, so there aren't any real consequences for not paying them.

The association can sue, and maybe even win, but that judgement is just another piece of paper for the owner to ignore.

Resolving violations requires the cooperation of the owner who committed the violation - the person who has already demonstrated that they don't care about the rules by breaking them.

We have traffic laws and people still speed and run red lights. Does anyone turn up at the police station and say "I saw someone speeding. This must mean that the police allow speeding!"

TerriS6 (California)
Posts: 3,284
Posted:
First call: fire marshal
Second call: adult protective services
TerriS6 (California)
Posts: 3,284
Posted:
If that's not a nuisance, nothing is. Either via HOA docs or government enforcement. Preferably the latter.
ElleN (Idaho)
Posts: 1,334
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By NormanK2 on 12/20/2024 3:47 PM
https://gab.com/1953buster/posts/112791849192936099 You decide.
Sure. No covenant cited as being violated, no foul.
SheliaH (Indiana)
Posts: 6,964
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By ElleN on 12/20/2024 5:19 PM
Posted By NormanK2 on 12/20/2024 3:47 PM
https://gab.com/1953buster/posts/112791849192936099 You decide.
Sure. No covenant cited as being violated, no foul.

What ElleN said. It IS tacky, but if there isn't anything in your documents that address yard appearance, you might not be able to do anything. You might check if the documents say anything about replacing grass (I would think that would warrant prior approval by the board). As for the rest, it does look somewhat organized - there isn't the type of clutter that might attract vermin (they might look at this, say "never mind," and keep looking for another home).
doesn't look so cluttered to attract vermin (the stuff's so ugly they might pass on it anyway). I wonder if your immediate neighbors feel the same way as you - perhaps if someone wrote a letter signed "your neighbors", noting the yard sticks out from the others - and not in a good way.

I Googled "how to tell your neighbor his/her yard is ugly and found a number of comments - this article looked like the most constructive place to start - https://www.wikihow.com/Deal-With-Your-Neighbour%27s-Unsightly-Property Good luck!

If it is not right do not do it; if it is not true do not say it. Marcus Aurelius
GregoryT1
Posts: 315
Posted:
Well it is perfectly fine if it on a 5 acre property and you don't have to see it.

We had a trash concern and actually used the local ordinances to resolve it I think you will need to find the local ordinances if they can work in this situation. You might be surprised which agency that can get involved.

I agree with everyone comments.

Terri for adult proctective services are you seeing something in the pics that requires that agency?
TerriS6 (California)
Posts: 3,284
Posted:
Are you serious? The resident is nuts, needs meds, and can’t take care of herself. And I can’t believe the comments here. It’s a nuisance plain and simple. Some people stack junk cars in their front yards. Others stack creepy mannequins. Check the city or county ordinances for nuisance snd the fire codes.
ElleN (Idaho)
Posts: 1,334
Posted:
I do not think mannequins on a front porch would qualify as a "nuisance."
TerriS6 (California)
Posts: 3,284
Posted:
Every wig and every garment is material perfectly suited for rats’ nests. The poster said vermin were present.
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By TerriS6 on 12/21/2024 2:57 AM

The poster said vermin were present.

The OP said that many of the residents had the opinion that it was a breeding ground for snakes and roaches.

Nobody said anything about actually seeing them.

Quote:
Posted By NormanK2 on 12/16/2024 7:41 PM

Alot of us say its a breeding ground for snakes and Roachers,. . .

TerriS6 (California)
Posts: 3,284
Posted:
Tim! I'm surprised that one as persnickety as yourself is defending this nuisance.
ElleN (Idaho)
Posts: 1,334
Posted:
The photos do not portray hoarding.
TerriS6 (California)
Posts: 3,284
Posted:
Whether or not it’s hoarding, I thought that website might help the poster. Of course we all know that 12 creepy mannequins on the porch is something perfectly normal.
ElleN (Idaho)
Posts: 1,334
Posted:
The mannequins could be art. They could be an effort to keep burglars away. I cannot say what they are for sure.

All I know is that the OP has yet to post a covenant that might address this matter.
ElleN (Idaho)
Posts: 1,334
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By TerriS6 on 12/20/2024 7:32 PM
The resident is nuts, needs meds, and can’t take care of herself.
Some might read more about the OP and say the same. Having done so, I am not surprised he has not posted a covenant that might apply here.

Maybe covenants are hoa-axes?

The gab.com link above has identifying information. I think Norm should ask the moderators to delete the link.

Norm, you can convert photos to a small pdf file and attach them.
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By TerriS6 on 12/21/2024 8:14 AM
Tim! I'm surprised that one as persnickety as yourself is defending this nuisance.

I just don't like embellishing what an OP provided for the purpose of bolstering ones opinion.

Stick to the facts and let the facts speak for themselves.

TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059
Posted:
Regarding defending the physical look:

As I posted earlier, art is subjective.
What the individual, the OP is complaining about, did is not something I like but it is likely the individuals own self expression.

I'm sure that some would call it art (as many things are called art that doesn't appeal to me).

Some may even call it a form of free speech.
One website gives the meaning of freedom of speech as encompassing not only the spoken and written word, but also all kinds of expression (including non-verbal communications, such as sit-ins, art, photographs, films and advertisements).

I do support the freedom of speech - even if I don't agree with it.

Now, what is being discussed is an issue for the Associations Board to address based on their covenants.
I have no idea what those covenants are.
I have no idea if the OP brought the issue to the board or, if he did, what the boards response and reasoning was.
The OP has not shared any of that.

One could argue the look is a nuisance.
However, nuisance is also a subjective term.

Based on the OPs statement that the Board won't do anything, It's possible that their board discussed the issues involved. Perhaps they even consulted an attorney or simply looked at finances and determined that legal action would cause more harm than good.

Again, I don't know.
I only know what I have seen which the OP posted.

Ellie quoted a post that is no longer available (at least I haven't seen it).
Perhaps my question to the OP (what did your board say?) was answered in that post. Perhaps not.

As I said, based on the photos provided through a link, it's not my cup of tea.

However, if I was on the board, I would:

1) defend the individuals right of expression vs. a subjective opinion (as subjective issues cause the most problems for Associations in a legal case)
2) do research to determine if what I see does violate specific covenants (vs. subjective covenants).
3) do research to see if the local authorities would be able to address the visual problem (health department, etc.)
4) recommend the board obtains a legal opinion on the issue and potential cost if it went to court
5) consider how this might affect the Association and members if legal action was brought and the media ran stories on it (as contacting the media would be the first thing I would do if I was that individual).
6) I would review finances and determine what might the Association be able to afford in legal fees.

This way, I could make an informed decision on what I would vote for the board to do.
TerriS6 (California)
Posts: 3,284
Posted:
The issue probably can be abated through local ordinances.
Supposing I think storing 15 wrecked cars in my front yard is art?
TerriS6 (California)
Posts: 3,284
Posted:
Several Florida cities have ordinances prohibiting outdoor storage of indoor materials.
LetA (Nevada)
Posts: 2,679
Posted:
It all comes down to the homeowner wanting to abide by the community rules, local laws and ordinances.

HOA sends out violation warning, follow up letter, demand for appearance at board meeting, all get ignored.
Fines rack up, trash piles up, eyesore ensues. Everyone's hands are tied because you can't go on someone else's land
and clean up their mess.

I Wish it was that easy.
WendyM5 (North Carolina)
Posts: 1,522
Posted:
Norman my advice is to mind your own business. If you dont' like their art look the other way. They are not bothering you; it's all in your head. Also the world needs more snakes they are predators of real rodents like mice and rats.

vis ta vie
TerriS6 (California)
Posts: 3,284
Posted:
Mind his own business when neighbor is pulling down the value of his property? No way!

This is from a Florida attorney's website. I would like to hear the argument proving Norman's neighbor's trash display is "reasonable."
"Ultimately, whether a common law nuisance exists is a question of fact that is based upon the evidence presented to the court and a consideration of the reasonableness of the individual’s use of their property and how their use affects the private rights of others. Depending on the facts presented in the case, a court has generally broad discretion in not only determining if a common law nuisance exists but also whether the individual claiming the nuisance is entitled to an injunction order prohibiting the person from engaging in the activity, monetary damages or both. Importantly, a common law claim of nuisance is based upon the facts presented and is not based on a specific provision of a contract or Florida Law. Accordingly, a party that successfully brings a claim for common law nuisance may be entitled to monetary and/or injunctive relief but would not automatically be entitled to recover their attorney’s fees and costs incurred in bringing the case."
ElleN (Idaho)
Posts: 1,334
Posted:
If there is no covenant or city ordinance to address this, then the OP would have to claim that the display is a "visual nuisance" or "aesthetic nuisance" that falls into the common law nuisance category. From my reading of nuisance law in general and Florida nuisance law in particular, legally fighting mere displays of xyz in a front yard, where xyz is considered art by the owner and xyz is obviously not trash (nor emits odors, fluids or noise) would be a tough and expensive battle, with little available in the case law to help predict an outcome.
WendyM5 (North Carolina)
Posts: 1,522
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By TerriS6 on 12/26/2024 6:32 AM
Mind his own business when neighbor is pulling down the value of his property? No way!

This is from a Florida attorney's website. I would like to hear the argument proving Norman's neighbor's trash display is "reasonable."
"Ultimately, whether a common law nuisance exists is a question of fact that is based upon the evidence presented to the court and a consideration of the reasonableness of the individual’s use of their property and how their use affects the private rights of others. Depending on the facts presented in the case, a court has generally broad discretion in not only determining if a common law nuisance exists but also whether the individual claiming the nuisance is entitled to an injunction order prohibiting the person from engaging in the activity, monetary damages or both. Importantly, a common law claim of nuisance is based upon the facts presented and is not based on a specific provision of a contract or Florida Law. Accordingly, a party that successfully brings a claim for common law nuisance may be entitled to monetary and/or injunctive relief but would not automatically be entitled to recover their attorney’s fees and costs incurred in bringing the case."

the value of property if largely subjecive and determined by economic trends not how tall the grass is or other pro HOA narratives.

vis ta vie
TerriS6 (California)
Posts: 3,284
Posted:
If you think this eyesore will not dissuade potential buyers, you know nothing about real estate.
WendyM5 (North Carolina)
Posts: 1,522
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By TerriS6 on 12/26/2024 4:25 PM
If you think this eyesore will not dissuade potential buyers, you know nothing about real estate.

you haven't even see a photo and you are this worked up? A lot of crap dissuades potential buyers. like having a pool or not having a pool,
having stairs or not
having an open floor plan or not
having nice grass or not

and yet homes still get sold every day. It's almost as if it doesnt' matter because the buyer pool is so big that it makes it irrelvant.

vis ta vie
JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By ElleN on 12/26/2024 2:40 PM
If there is no covenant or city ordinance to address this, then the OP would have to claim that the display is a "visual nuisance" or "aesthetic nuisance" that falls into the common law nuisance category. From my reading of nuisance law in general and Florida nuisance law in particular, legally fighting mere displays of xyz in a front yard, where xyz is considered art by the owner and xyz is obviously not trash (nor emits odors, fluids or noise) would be a tough and expensive battle, with little available in the case law to help predict an outcome.

I agree.
JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265
Posted:
De gustibus non est disputandum
TerriS6 (California)
Posts: 3,284
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By WendyM5 on 12/27/2024 8:17 PM
Posted By TerriS6 on 12/26/2024 4:25 PM
If you think this eyesore will not dissuade potential buyers, you know nothing about real estate.


you haven't even see a photo and you are this worked up? A lot of crap dissuades potential buyers. like having a pool or not having a pool,
having stairs or not
having an open floor plan or not
having nice grass or not

and yet homes still get sold every day. It's almost as if it doesnt' matter because the buyer pool is so big that it makes it irrelvant.

There were photos posted.
TerriS6 (California)
Posts: 3,284
Posted:
Someone complained about the link to the photos and it was removed.
ElleN (Idaho)
Posts: 1,334
Posted:
Real life court case from Arizona:

In 2006 an owner placed in his front yard, "a metal sculpture of a saguaro cactus wearing sunglasses and holding an electric guitar" that was over nine feet tall. In late 2008, the HOA started issuing the owner violations for this art. In mid-2009, the HOA filed suit. Sometime in 2010 the trial court heard the dispute and found for the owner. The trial court also awarded the owner his attorney fees. The HOA appealed. In 2011 an appeals court heard and affirmed in part, reversed in part and remanded. The appeals court awarded the HOA attorney fees for the appeal and reversed the order for the owner to receive his attorney fees until further proceedings et cetera.

The online history ends there. Perhaps a settlement occurred.

See

https://cases.justia.com/arizona/court-of-appeals-division-one-unpublished/CV100604.pdf?ts=1462295415

https://www.superiorcourt.maricopa.gov/docket/CivilCourtCases/caseInfo.asp?caseNumber=CV2009-024476

Messy and expensive.
TerriS6 (California)
Posts: 3,284
Posted:
Would help to compare property characteristics and photos. I didn't read the case but... Where saguaro cactus are revered and protected, it may not have been annoying to neighbors. I'm guessing the two properties look vastly different.
JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By TerriS6 on 12/28/2024 5:25 AM
Someone complained about the link to the photos and it was removed.

https://gab.com/1953buster/posts/112791849192936099
NormanK2 (Florida)
Posts: 39
Posted:
We did talk with her her answer was i'll do everything i can get away with. She has since then put stuff down the side of her Property one foot from our
Property line we put up no trespass signs but she hits them pushers them over. The worse part about all this is my Wife is ill with COPD and we have alot over Nurses that come by and its so embarassing for her to be asked by everyone that visits and they say is WHAT IS THAT,Don't you have an HOA ? We asked to put up a fence HOA said no but some people here have Fences but are told when they sell the fences have to come down,we had a realtor look at the house and he said that could stop the sale of the house or we would have to take less.

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