💬 Join us to post & get advice from 50,000 HOA & Condo leaders.

Create Free Account →

⚡ Takes 30 seconds

Already a member? Log in

ThomasW16 (Georgia)
Posts: 5
Posted:
Can an HOA/POA restrict the water usage of members if the CC&Rs make no reference to water usage nor give the HOA that power? Our HOA uses shared wells, but they are owned by 3rd parties and all members pay a usage fee to the third parties. The POA has no ownership or formal relationship with the water providers.
Members of our HOA would like to restrict what they perceive to be wasteful use of water by other residents.

FYI - I am also asking this question of our attorney also, but am curious as to others' experience with such an issue. To me, it seems that if the CC&Rs do not give you the right of managing water, the HOA cannot step in and make a rule, anymore than they could restrict the amount of electricity that a home buys from the local utility.
TerriS6 (California)
Posts: 3,284
Posted:
The wells are not owned by the association so it seems it would have no authority over water usage unless the water was causing damage to a common area or association amenity.
TerriS6 (California)
Posts: 3,284
Posted:
In our association, each member has his own water well on his own property. The association has no authority over our water usage. State laws could have an impact in the future.
TerriS6 (California)
Posts: 3,284
Posted:
Sorry for 3 posts but if your board made such a water restriction, it would probably constitute an ultra vires act.
ElleN (Idaho)
Posts: 1,334
Posted:
ThomasW16, I agree with your reasoning and I agree with your conclusion.
JeffT2 (Iowa)
Posts: 880
Posted:
In general, the law and your governing documents usually have a broad statement of authority to create restrictions. So the HOA can restrict water usage without having that specific power over water usage.

However, restrictions need to be reasonable, and should probably be related your property. A reason might be that the wells can run dry with extensive usage and water needs to be preserved. If the reason is simply that they don't like what their neighbors are doing, then that by itself is not a good reason.

Other than perceived wasteful use, what are the reasons to restrict water usage?
ThomasW16 (Georgia)
Posts: 5
Posted:
There are allegations that refilling hot tubs reduces water pressure for other residents. This has never been proven or officially stated - just gripes. I have spoken personally with the companies that own the wells and they have no recollection of any pressure problem or outage ever having been connected to a hot tub refill.

Most of those who want restrictions say that they want them for conservation reasons and to reduce waste.
DeanJ
Posts: 1,786
Posted:
Reasonable might be no vehicle washing, that’s about it.
DeanJ
Posts: 1,786
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By ThomasW16 on 12/11/2024 12:24 PM
There are allegations that refilling hot tubs reduces water pressure for other residents. This has never been proven or officially stated - just gripes. I have spoken personally with the companies that own the wells and they have no recollection of any pressure problem or outage ever having been connected to a hot tub refill.

Most of those who want restrictions say that they want them for conservation reasons and to reduce waste.

People normally retain water in hot tubs like they do in swimming pools. Filling bath tubs, drum washing machines, and washing cars are likely culprit.
ElleN (Idaho)
Posts: 1,334
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By JeffT2 on 12/11/2024 12:21 PM
In general, the law and your governing documents usually have a broad statement of authority to create restrictions. So the HOA can restrict water usage without having that specific power over water usage.
Not so. For a Board-created rule to be lawfully enforceable, for one thing the rule has to have a clear basis in the governing documents or statutes.

One of the biggest myths newbies have here is the belief that a HOA can make up any old rule. No, they cannot. The courts view covenants either as contractual terms or for all intents and purposes for laypeople, as contractual terms. For one thing this means the board cannot go outside the authority of these "contractual terms."

The county or state might be able to enforce water use restrictions. But from what the OP has said so far, I do not see that the HOA corporation has any authority or say other than maybe humble non-enforceable requests of owners in say the HOA newsletter or at association meetings.
ElleN (Idaho)
Posts: 1,334
Posted:
ThomasW16, is there a shared well agreement among the owners? Such a formal, written-down agreement is pretty common.

If no agreement exists, maybe there should be.
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059
Posted:
Restrictions inside the home or on private property typically have to be within the covenants.

Restrictions on common areas or common elements can be made by resolution.

Regarding water usage, I agree with others, the HOA has zero authority over that unless your governing documents give the board that authority.
JeffT2 (Iowa)
Posts: 880
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By ElleN on 12/11/2024 12:52 PM
Posted By JeffT2 on 12/11/2024 12:21 PM
In general, the law and your governing documents usually have a broad statement of authority to create restrictions. So the HOA can restrict water usage without having that specific power over water usage.
Not so. For a Board-created rule to be lawfully enforceable, for one thing the rule has to have a clear basis in the governing documents or statutes.

One of the biggest myths newbies have here is the belief that a HOA can make up any old rule. No, they cannot. The courts view covenants either as contractual terms or for all intents and purposes for laypeople, as contractual terms. For one thing this means the board cannot go outside the authority of these "contractual terms."

The county or state might be able to enforce water use restrictions. But from what the OP has said so far, I do not see that the HOA corporation has any authority or say other than maybe humble non-enforceable requests of owners in say the HOA newsletter or at association meetings.

ThomasW16 used the word rule, but in my defense ;), I used the word restriction, not rule, by which I meant a properly enacted amendment to the other restrictions (CCRs). I added reasonable and related to the property.

I agree that rules need a clear basis in the governing documents or statutes. If there is a strong need for a rule, such as running out of water, then a general statement in the CCRs could allow a rule on water usage. I don't see a strong need here, at least not yet.
SheliaH (Indiana)
Posts: 6,964
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By ThomasW16 on 12/11/2024 12:24 PM
There are allegations that refilling hot tubs reduces water pressure for other residents. This has never been proven or officially stated - just gripes. I have spoken personally with the companies that own the wells and they have no recollection of any pressure problem or outage ever having been connected to a hot tub refill.

Most of those who want restrictions say that they want them for conservation reasons and to reduce waste.

If that's how they feel, perhaps they can do some research on what's happening with water usage in your community to see if there IS a problem. It's true the board may not have any say in the matter, but since these wells are shared, it wouldn't hurt to ask the complainers how they came to this conclusion. There could be things people could be encouraged to do to conserve water (saving everyone money)

Here's an article on the subject that could get everyone started - https://portal.ct.gov/deep/water/water-quantity/water-conservation-guidance-for-homeowners-with-wells#:~:text=Cutting%20back%20on%20water%20use,entire%20day%20may%20also%20help.

If it is not right do not do it; if it is not true do not say it. Marcus Aurelius
JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265
Posted:
Thomas

I am assuming the HOA pays the water bill regardless of usage amount per unit. Is this so? Have you considered individual water meters and bill according to usage?
ElleN (Idaho)
Posts: 1,334
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By JeffT2 on 12/11/2024 4:20 PM
ThomasW16 used the word rule, but in my defense ;), I used the word restriction, not rule, by which I meant a properly enacted amendment to the other restrictions (CCRs). I added reasonable and related to the property.
I see. You wrote:
Quote:
Posted By JeffT2
the law and your governing documents usually have a broad statement of authority to create restrictions


I gather you meant there is a "broad statement of authority" to enact amendments to the CCRs, which requires a vote of the owners in almost all cases, and often a supermajority's approval as well.

Your "broad statement of authority" is my "Amendments section of the Declaration." Winky wink.

I agree that the courts say any such amendment has to be reasonable.
TerriS6 (California)
Posts: 3,284
Posted:
Your HOA is virtue signaling.
Let us know what the lawyer says.
JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265
Posted:
Is this an issue of showering once a week versus daily or watering plants?
ThomasW16 (Georgia)
Posts: 5
Posted:
No. This is really about the refilling of hot tubs and spas, primarily by folks who rent their cabins.
ThomasW16 (Georgia)
Posts: 5
Posted:
Btw - our lots are individually metered, and individually billed.

Our lawyer has weighed in and said our Covenants do not give the HOA the right to limit or restrict water consumption.
TerriS6 (California)
Posts: 3,284
Posted:
Very good. Also, the board should have had some proof that the water supply was threatened somehow before the it decided the water should be rationed.
SheliaH (Indiana)
Posts: 6,964
Posted:
Well, it appears the question about the board's authority to regulate water usage has been answered (nothing in the documents and the HOA isn't paying for the water anyway). If people are being billed individually but it's a shared well, I suspect some may be concerned that their bills are increased because of what a neighbor is doing with his/her hot tub.

Since some people did express concern about water conservation, maybe people need to read or reread their owner's manuals to see how often this should be done. Here's what Google AI said on the subject:

A hot tub does not need to be completely refilled before every use; most experts recommend draining and refilling your hot tub every 3-4 months, depending on usage and water quality, as the water can become saturated with minerals and chemicals over time.

Key points about hot tub refilling:
Chemical buildup:
The primary reason to drain and refill is to manage chemical build-up in the water, which can affect its effectiveness and potentially irritate skin.

Testing water quality:
Regularly test your hot tub water to monitor pH, alkalinity, and sanitizer levels to determine when it's time to refill.

Signs of needing a refill:
Cloudy water, excessive foaming, difficulty dissolving chemicals, or a harsh feeling on the skin can indicate the need to drain and refill.

One way to find middle ground on this is to talk to some hot tub retailers to see what they say about maintenance and refilling, and post suggestions on the community website or newsletter (or both). Then it's up to the hot tub owners to make the next move. Everyone depends on the same water supply, so hot tub or no, people should remember that before something happens and EVERYONE's water supply has to be limited. Hot tubs are nice, but the ability to take showers, have drinking water and especially flushing the toilet is more important.

If it is not right do not do it; if it is not true do not say it. Marcus Aurelius
TerriS6 (California)
Posts: 3,284
Posted:
Thomas wrote that the refilling hot tubs often occurred with those having rental cabins. A hit tub should be refilled and cleaned/sanitized after every stay. That could be once a week.
SheliaH (Indiana)
Posts: 6,964
Posted:
Hm, looks like you've hit on another reason some people are upset - some neighbors are renting out their cabins and keep using the water for hot tub refills, which are supposed to be used by residents (albeit part time). They collect rents while others have to pay more or risk not having enough water because of the renters. I don't know how much of this is true, but I do know tenants moving in and out can and does result in more expenses to the association (e.g. trash).

This could be another reason the board tried to do what it did, but we know they don't have the authority, so I don't know how this gets fixed (one could argue residents are responsible for using as much water as the owner-landlords do).

If it is not right do not do it; if it is not true do not say it. Marcus Aurelius
TerriS6 (California)
Posts: 3,284
Posted:
It's called private property. 2 people renting a cabin and filling the hit tub could very well be using less water than a full time family of 2 or 4. For example, vacationers do far less laundry than permanent residents. Usually the trash gets picked up regularly regardless of whether people are staying temporarily or permanently.
DeanJ
Posts: 1,786
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By ElleN on 12/11/2024 12:52 PM
Posted By JeffT2 on 12/11/2024 12:21 PM
In general, the law and your governing documents usually have a broad statement of authority to create restrictions. So the HOA can restrict water usage without having that specific power over water usage.
Not so. For a Board-created rule to be lawfully enforceable, for one thing the rule has to have a clear basis in the governing documents or statutes.

One of the biggest myths newbies have here is the belief that a HOA can make up any old rule. No, they cannot. The courts view covenants either as contractual terms or for all intents and purposes for laypeople, as contractual terms. For one thing this means the board cannot go outside the authority of these "contractual terms."

The county or state might be able to enforce water use restrictions. But from what the OP has said so far, I do not see that the HOA corporation has any authority or say other than maybe humble non-enforceable requests of owners in say the HOA newsletter or at association meetings.

In Ohio, a board can enact reasonable regulations. In a situation where a community is on wells and suffering from low water pressure, some water use restrictions are very reasonable.

A board could regulate the time of a shower, number of loads of clothing a week, or no use of bath tubs, but regulations prohibiting hot tubs and car washing are not unreasonable.

In a condo desiring to address water issues, including the repair of leaking faucets and toilets in the services package would go a long way.
MarshallT (New York)
Posts: 414
Posted:
I can't see how the board would create enforceable rules about water usage if it does not own the wells and members are paying for it.
DeanJ
Posts: 1,786
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By TerriS6 on 12/12/2024 3:23 PM
It's called private property. 2 people renting a cabin and filling the hit tub could very well be using less water than a full time family of 2 or 4. For example, vacationers do far less laundry than permanent residents. Usually the trash gets picked up regularly regardless of whether people are staying temporarily or permanently.

Actually the issue is commercial property.

It may be private property, but in Ohio the HOA has the authority to regulate use.

Regulate the use, maintenance, repair, replacement, modification, and appearance of the condominium property;

Adopt rules that regulate the use or occupancy of units, the maintenance, repair, replacement, modification, and appearance of units, common elements, and limited common elements when the actions regulated by those rules affect common elements or other units.

Low water pressure affect the other units,
TerriS6 (California)
Posts: 3,284
Posted:
There is no evidence here of water pressure loss. It was a perceived waste of water. As I said before, "virtue signaling."
ElleN (Idaho)
Posts: 1,334
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By TerriS6 on 12/13/2024 8:08 AM
There is no evidence here of water pressure loss. It was a perceived waste of water. As I said before, "virtue signaling."
More likely IMO just disdaining water waste.

For all we know water is a concern in general where the HOA is.
ElleN (Idaho)
Posts: 1,334
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By DeanJ on 12/13/2024 7:56 AM

It may be private property, but in Ohio the HOA has the authority to regulate use.
Only if Ohio statutes or the covenants say thusly.
ElleN (Idaho)
Posts: 1,334
Posted:
From https://www.epa.gov/sites/default/files/2017-02/documents/ws-ourwater-georgia-state-fact-sheet.pdf:

Though Georgia has a humid climate and a statewide annual rainfall of 51 inches, periodic water shortages have become a fact of life for the state’s residents. Such shortages are triggered not only by occasional droughts, but also by uncertain aquifer supplies and a dwindling number of new surface water sources available to satisfy the state’s growing population.
...
Even though Georgia’s high average rainfall is usually enough to recharge its aquifers, the combination of recent droughts and increased demand hav e strained
the state’s groundwater resources. For example, unsustainable pumping rates have significantly lowered water pressure in the aquifer underneath the City of Savannah and raised concerns about saltwater intrusion into fresh drinking water.
TerriS6 (California)
Posts: 3,284
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By ElleN on 12/13/2024 9:30 AM
Posted By TerriS6 on 12/13/2024 8:08 AM
There is no evidence here of water pressure loss. It was a perceived waste of water. As I said before, "virtue signaling."
More likely IMO just disdaining water waste.

For all we know water is a concern in general where the HOA is.

Isn’t that true everywhere. Here today, gone tomorrow.
DeanJ
Posts: 1,786
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By TerriS6 on 12/13/2024 8:08 AM
There is no evidence here of water pressure loss. It was a perceived waste of water. As I said before, "virtue signaling."

What if the wells go dry, then is it an HOA issue.
TerriS6 (California)
Posts: 3,284
Posted:
The sky is falling!!
DeanJ
Posts: 1,786
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By TerriS6 on 12/13/2024 1:39 PM
The sky is falling!!

Rather interesting opinion from a resident of a state where people own water rights and there is rationing.
TerriS6 (California)
Posts: 3,284
Posted:
Rationing? Not here. There is virtually no drought in California.
JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265
Posted:
The issue is a new renter wants "freshwater" in their hot tub versus one floating with your "stuff" especially the females.
ChristopherM6 (Colorado)
Posts: 4
Posted:
Trying to restrict water usage for car washing got our association sued. It started from a temporary city-wide restriction that the President then tried to make permanent. It was ugly. Watching the whole sad situation prompted me to get on the board to try to get things cleaned up.
LetA (Nevada)
Posts: 2,679
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By JohnC46 on 12/12/2024 2:11 AM
Is this an issue of showering once a week versus daily or watering plants?

I've seen people connect a hose to the spigot and drop the hose letting water run for hours and days. I dunno what would ever possess
someone to do that. That is why the MHP park meetered each lot.
LetA (Nevada)
Posts: 2,679
Posted:
Water waste is not good and unfortunately in some cultures this is seen as just another day.
Here in Southern Nevada we actually have water police that will fine and even shut off your water if you are
a huge water waster.

🎯 You've read this entire discussion

Join the conversation with 50,000 HOA & Condo Leaders:

  • ✓ Ask follow-up questions
  • ✓ Share your experience
  • ✓ Get expert advice
  • ✓ Access 350,000 discussions
Create Free Account →

⚡ Takes 30 seconds

Already a member? Log in here