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LoriM15 (Florida)
Posts: 1,009
Posted:
I just got an email from our HOA lawfirm that a Texas-based federal court issued an order yesterday tath prohibits the federal government from enforcing the CTA. The court put everything on hold for now and prohibits the government from enforcing any penalties for companies not complying by January 1. This means that if you haven't filed yet, you don't need to at this time and they can't come after you for not filing. This applies to the entire US, not just Texas.

This isn't the end of CTA since it's just a preliminary injuction the government will appeal. But if you haven't filed, you might want to hold out until they make another decision.
LoriM15 (Florida)
Posts: 1,009
Posted:
Here's the article.

https://www.varnumlaw.com/news/corporate-transparency-act-injunction-federal-court/
LoriM15 (Florida)
Posts: 1,009
Posted:
Here's the article.

https://www.varnumlaw.com/news/corporate-transparency-act-injunction-federal-court/
CathyA3 (Ohio)
Posts: 6,299
Posted:
Doing a tentative victory dance...
GregoryT1
Posts: 315
Posted:
Thanks for posting. We all appreciate it. We will need to keep an eye out for the appellate court if it overrules the decision.

Really appreciate it!!!!!!!!!!!
GregoryT1
Posts: 315
Posted:
Greetings My understanding it was a Texas court that did a nationwide injunction. I am trying to locate that article.
GregoryT1
Posts: 315
Posted:
https://www.foley.com/insights/publications/2024/12/federal-court-enjoins-government-enforcing-corporate-transparency-act/
GregoryT1
Posts: 315
Posted:
Hi Lori I think your link worked. My bad initially when I used your link it went to an older article back in March. Sorry for the confusion.
DeanJ
Posts: 1,786
Posted:
I am not an attorney, but I believe that court ruling only ap0lies to that court”s venue Texas.
ElleN (Idaho)
Posts: 1,333
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By DeanJ on 12/04/2024 4:06 PM
I am not an attorney, but I believe that court ruling only ap0lies to that court”s venue Texas.
Nope. Look it up.
KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550
Posted:
CAI now has posted it too.
LetA (Nevada)
Posts: 2,679
Posted:
I'm not ready to do the Ren and Stimpy dance just yet. Too little to late for most.
TerriS6 (California)
Posts: 3,284
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By DeanJ on 12/04/2024 4:06 PM
I am not an attorney, but I believe that court ruling only ap0lies to that court”s venue Texas.

It's federal court not a state court.
CathyA3 (Ohio)
Posts: 6,299
Posted:
The Texas court's ruling granted a preliminary injunction which stops enforcement of the CTA's reporting requirements until the various lawsuits have time to work their ways through court. Such a ruling is not unusual. CAI also asked for a preliminary injunction against enforcement for community associations, which was denied - CAI has appealed that ruling.

The CTA is definitely not gone yet.

But the lawsuits against the Treasury consistently cite provisions of the law that have already been ruled unconstitutional by some other courts (eg., the Alabama court that ruled in favor of the National Small Business Association).

I await further developments with great interest.
ElleN (Idaho)
Posts: 1,333
Posted:
From one law firm:
[W]e recommend that clients do not abandon preparations for eventual compliance. If an appeal is filed and the injunction is stayed or narrowed, clients should ensure they will be in a position to complete their remaining filings on what may be a tight timeline. ... But a stay could undo that postponement, and a stay order could come at any time...

Elaboration:
In our view, the US Department of Justice is likely to appeal this injunction in the coming days. The government may also ask the U.S. Court of Appeals for the Fifth Circuit (or, potentially, the U.S. Supreme Court) to grant an immediate stay of the injunction, or to narrow the application of the ruling to just the plaintiffs in the case and companies that are members of the organizational plaintiff, the National Federation of Independent Business, Inc.

We would expect a ruling on any stay request to come in December 2024, but a decision on the government’s likely appeal will take longer. The nationwide injunction is premised on the district court’s view that the plaintiffs are likely to succeed on a “facial” constitutional challenge to the CTA. A facial challenge requires the plaintiffs to meet a relatively high burden in order to succeed, and it is therefore possible that even if the appeals court finds the statute to be constitutionally flawed, it may not be willing to enjoin the entirety of the statute, throughout the country, at this preliminary stage.


See https://www.goodwinlaw.com/en/insights/publications/2024/12/alerts-otherindustries-preliminary-injunction-halts-corporate-transparency-act-enforcement
GregoryT1
Posts: 315
Posted:
Ellen thanks.

I think it will be like a horror movie. It's Back. I heard the Virginia court it was decided that it would not listen to an injunction. Not verified. I will look around.
ElleN (Idaho)
Posts: 1,333
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By GregoryT1 on 12/05/2024 6:51 PM
I heard the Virginia court it was decided that it would not listen to an injunction. Not verified.
I think this is not so. What I know: Some weeks ago federal district courts in Virginia and Oregon denied nationwide preliminary injunctions (NPIs). I think media reports on these past rulings are what you are seeing.

Strange as it may seem, the Texas federal district court order does control nationwide. This means the Texas court's ruling supersedes the Virginia and Oregon rulings. As it turns out, today district court-ordered NPIs are not at all uncommon. Federal district courts averaged just a few (like one to three) nationwide preliminary injunctions each year since the 1980s. During the Trump years, a dozen or so NPIs were issued each year. During the Biden years, the number appears to remain fairly high (around seven per year for the first two years?) vis-a-vis the Reagan through Obama years. I am not sure if this says anything about Mr. Trump and Mr. Biden. More people = more complexity = more regulation = more litigation, after all.
ElleN (Idaho)
Posts: 1,333
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By ElleN on 12/05/2024 7:47 PM
Posted By GregoryT1 on 12/05/2024 6:51 PM
I heard the Virginia court it was decided that it would not listen to an injunction. Not verified.
I think this is not so. What I know: Some weeks ago federal district courts in Virginia and Oregon denied nationwide preliminary injunctions (NPIs). I think media reports on these past rulings are what you are seeing.

Strange as it may seem, the Texas federal district court order does control nationwide. This means the Texas court's ruling supersedes the Virginia and Oregon rulings. As it turns out, today district court-ordered NPIs are not at all uncommon. Federal district courts averaged just a few (like one to three) nationwide preliminary injunctions each year since the 1980s. During the Trump years, a dozen or so NPIs were issued each year. During the Biden years, the number appears to remain fairly high (around seven per year for the first two years?) vis-a-vis the Reagan through Obama years. I am not sure if this says anything about Mr. Trump and Mr. Biden. More people = more complexity = more regulation = more litigation, after all.
Oops; forgot to add my citation for the above. See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nationwide_injunction
CathyA3 (Ohio)
Posts: 6,299
Posted:
The sad thing about this is that I haven't heard anyone objecting to the goals of the CTA - and that includes groups and individuals who have filed lawsuits against the provisions of the CTA. People are objecting to the methods the CTA uses to achieve those goals.

Among other things, the methods are based on a flawed assumption or three. To wit: if the bad guys are using shell corporations to carry out their dastardly deeds, well, then you just round up all small corporations! QED!!!

No, not QED.

The main, unproven assumption is that the bad guys will oblige the Feds and report their information. Does anyone believe this? Really? Or will they simply incorporate outside of the US and rely on cryptocurrencies and other legitimate currencies? They're already doing this.

But OK, let's play along.

Assuming some of the bad guys are stupid enough to incorporate in the US and to report their information to the Feds, how do the Feds plan to identify the tracks of the bad guys when they are lost amidst the tracks of everyone else? I assume they don't have a clue how to do this - otherwise the CTA would be more narrowly focused.

But full marks for criminalizing the behavior of thousands of honest citizens. Our Founding Fathers would be so proud.
CathyA3 (Ohio)
Posts: 6,299
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By ElleN on 12/05/2024 7:47 PM
Posted By GregoryT1 on 12/05/2024 6:51 PM
I heard the Virginia court it was decided that it would not listen to an injunction. Not verified.
I think this is not so. What I know: Some weeks ago federal district courts in Virginia and Oregon denied nationwide preliminary injunctions (NPIs). I think media reports on these past rulings are what you are seeing.

Strange as it may seem, the Texas federal district court order does control nationwide. This means the Texas court's ruling supersedes the Virginia and Oregon rulings. As it turns out, today district court-ordered NPIs are not at all uncommon. Federal district courts averaged just a few (like one to three) nationwide preliminary injunctions each year since the 1980s. During the Trump years, a dozen or so NPIs were issued each year. During the Biden years, the number appears to remain fairly high (around seven per year for the first two years?) vis-a-vis the Reagan through Obama years. I am not sure if this says anything about Mr. Trump and Mr. Biden. More people = more complexity = more regulation = more litigation, after all.

If you're talking about the lawsuit filed in Virginia by Community Associations Institute, CAI did request an injunction, which was denied. CAI has appealed this.

CAI's lawsuit was filed on behalf of community associations only. It covers the entire country, but has nothing to say about other small corporations. If I understand this correctly, the Texas court's ruling was much broader.

You can read all of CAI's filings on their website: Corporate Transparency Act

ElleN (Idaho)
Posts: 1,333
Posted:
CathyA3 is pointing out that the one Virginia case challenging the CTA is highly limited and seeks only to exclude HOAs from the CTA. I agree.

From CathyA3's CAI link I see appeal of the Virginia denial is now in the Fourth Circuit Court of Appeals.

I agree the distinction between the two injunctions (one denied, one granted) is important. As the CAI case winds its way through the courts, CAI could end up winning an exemption for just HOAs. While (as CathyA3 points out) the Texas case may throw out the law entirely.

The Oregon lawsuit challenges the constitutionality of the CTA. The denial of the injunction in the Oregon lawsuit is also on appeal.

Let's see what consolidation takes place.
ArthurS7 (Pennsylvania)
Posts: 32
Posted:
Our five member board was going to meet next weekend to complete it. We have our EIN number, we have our address, and of course, we can find our own driver's licenses. Should we bother meeting anymore?
CathyA3 (Ohio)
Posts: 6,299
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By ArthurS7 on 12/08/2024 6:39 AM
Our five member board was going to meet next weekend to complete it. We have our EIN number, we have our address, and of course, we can find our own driver's licenses. Should we bother meeting anymore?

The educational videos I've watched recommended having a single person report the info. Individual board members may or may not trust others with a copy of their driver's license, so you'll have to sort that out.

The website where you report the board's info gives you two options: either complete the online form or complete a PDF. I went with the online version since that was recommended in some educational videos. And the online version asks for the information of the person who completed the form. If a board member does this, they'll have to put in their information twice (I thought that was a little confusing).

I also haven't seen yet is instructions about how to update the information after the first report. Can you log back in and add/delete/correct previously submitted info? Or do you simply do a new, complete report? We'll have to burn that bridge if and when we come to it, I guess. But for associations that hold their annual meeting in January, they'll face this in February or March if the board composition changes (because corrections have to be reported within 30 days).
ArthurS7 (Pennsylvania)
Posts: 32
Posted:
Regarding trusting each other with each other's driver's licenses. We were just going to meet at someone's house, and then the five of us just rotate on one computer. And just get it done. So no one would keep anyone else's information.
CathyA3 (Ohio)
Posts: 6,299
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By ArthurS7 on 12/08/2024 7:09 AM
Regarding trusting each other with each other's driver's licenses. We were just going to meet at someone's house, and then the five of us just rotate on one computer. And just get it done. So no one would keep anyone else's information.

You have to upload an image of the driver's license, which means it needs to be on the computer that you're using. You can watch the computer's owner delete the images and then empty the recycle bin. But it's possible (and fairly easy) to recover files after the recycle bin has been purged.

This is one of the main reasons so many people are objecting to the CTA and one of the reasons some boards are opting to have the association attorney handle this. Once your data is out there, it's difficult to get rid of it - although there are companies that claim to be able to do so.

ArthurS7 (Pennsylvania)
Posts: 32
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By CathyA3 on 12/08/2024 10:13 AM
Posted By ArthurS7 on 12/08/2024 7:09 AM
Regarding trusting each other with each other's driver's licenses. We were just going to meet at someone's house, and then the five of us just rotate on one computer. And just get it done. So no one would keep anyone else's information.


You have to upload an image of the driver's license, which means it needs to be on the computer that you're using. You can watch the computer's owner delete the images and then empty the recycle bin. But it's possible (and fairly easy) to recover files after the recycle bin has been purged.

This is one of the main reasons so many people are objecting to the CTA and one of the reasons some boards are opting to have the association attorney handle this. Once your data is out there, it's difficult to get rid of it - although there are companies that claim to be able to do so.


I am probably the only one of our board members tech savvy enough to do that, and I have no interest.

Anyhows, it looks like we don't need to do it anymore as long as the injunction remains in place.
MarshallT (New York)
Posts: 414
Posted:
Chances are high that this issue won't be resolved for some time. But if your board strongly apposes filing, it can wait to do so for now.
MarshallT (New York)
Posts: 414
Posted:
Chances are high that this issue won't be resolved for some time. But if your board strongly apposes filing, it can wait to do so for now.

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