Proxy is a BOD nominee??

ElizabethB1 (Arkansas)
Posts: 50

Posted:

Another crazy thing--our community POA annual meeting is this weekend in SC. I didn't pay much attention to the mail-in ballot/proxy as I knew I'd be attending the meeting.

Well, another neighbor noticed the official proxy happens to be up for re-election for the board. Apparently, it's "tradition" for the president and the secretary to be the official proxies.

Besides not being the right thing to do, isn't this unethical to have a proxy as a nominee (albeit a re-elected position)?

RogerB (Colorado)
Posts: 5,067

Posted:

Elizabeth, I recommend the proxy always be a person, preferrably a member, and never an officer's title. It is not unethical for any member to seek proxies as an individual. IMO it is improper to provide any person or officer as the receipiant of the proxy mailed out. This does not apply for write-in ballots which some have referred to as proxies.

ElizabethB1 (Arkansas)
Posts: 50

Posted:

If I'm reading your response right, the default proxy should not be an officer of the BOD and especially not one who is up for re-election on the same ballot (although this is not illegal).

Since I sent my ballot off weeks ago, I'm going on memory. There was definitely a place to write in your own proxy or one can choose to accept the POA's designated proxy (which in this case is a person re-upping for the BOD).

DonnaS (Tennessee)
Posts: 5,671

Posted:

Roger said it right on, that no member running for election should be allowed to be the designated or default proxy holder.

RobertR1 (South Carolina)
Posts: 5,164

Posted:

Your proxy vote should be made for the candidate. Why would anyone give their vote away to anyone else. If they want to count the proxy to quorum, no problem.

I hold all associations should not allow someone to vote your vote. If you don't know who to bote for, then don't vote. In fact telling someone else to take your vote and use it for their selection is probably illegal under the constitution. That is plain and simple selling your vote.
This holds for elections only.

SidneyP (Florida)
Posts: 302

Posted:

I need help and also directed to written infro about proxies.....I thought I have read on this forum that a proxie MUST be completely filled out by the HO sending in the proxy....is this right?....Our President collected the proxies both mailed and hand dilivered then allowed and said it was legal for the secretary to fill in the name for the nominee, filling in their own names for re-election....Can they do this? I am trying to get back on the Board (they do not want me and even appointed a HO who lives out of town just to keep me off after I volunteered. The election is coming up the end of March. The real problem is, the few HO's that do attend the meeting (5/6-and know what has gone on in the community)) want me on the Board but thats not enough to help. The other problem is that more than 50% are renters and we have (2) in foreclosuer and (2) in pre-foreclosurer. Any suggestions would be so much appreciated....Donna..HELP (I would really like to contact you personally since you are so knowledgable about Flordia Statues....

SidneyP (Florida)
Posts: 302

Posted:

I need help and also directed to written infro about proxies.....I thought I have read on this forum that a proxie MUST be completely filled out by the HO sending in the proxy....is this right?....Our President collected the proxies both mailed and hand dilivered then allowed and said it was legal for the secretary to fill in the name for the nominee, filling in their own names for re-election....Can they do this? I am trying to get back on the Board (they do not want me and even appointed a HO who lives out of town just to keep me off after I volunteered. The election is coming up the end of March. The real problem is, the few HO's that do attend the meeting (5/6-and know what has gone on in the community)) want me on the Board but thats not enough to help. The other problem is that more than 50% are renters and we have (2) in foreclosuer and (2) in pre-foreclosurer. Any suggestions would be so much appreciated....Donna..HELP (I would really like to contact you personally since you are so knowledgable about Flordia Statues....

DonnaS (Tennessee)
Posts: 5,671

Posted:

Hi Sidney,
Waiting for a reply from HOATALK. Donna

DonnaS (Tennessee)
Posts: 5,671

Posted:

Sidney,
You are a condo, correct?

DonnaS (Tennessee)
Posts: 5,671

Posted:

Sidney,

I think that I have the answer. I know that Statutes 718 are for Condos and I remember that is what you are --a condo association. Anyhow, below will be the Proxy allowances from 718. Guess what, you are correct in your concerns about using Proxies for elections. I read that THEY CANNOT USE THEM FOR ELECTIONS.

2. Except as specifically otherwise provided herein, after January 1, 1992, unit owners may not vote by general proxy, but may vote by limited proxies substantially conforming to a limited proxy form adopted by the division. Limited proxies and general proxies may be used to establish a quorum. Limited proxies shall be used for votes taken to waive or reduce reserves in accordance with subparagraph (f)2.; for votes taken to waive the financial reporting requirements of s. 718.111(13); for votes taken to amend the declaration pursuant to s. 718.110; for votes taken to amend the articles of incorporation or bylaws pursuant to this section; and for any other matter for which this chapter requires or permits a vote of the unit owners. ""EXCEPT AS PROVIDED IN PARAGRAPH (d), AFTER JANUARY 1, 1992, NO PROXY, LIMITED OR GENERAL, SHALL BE USED IN THE ELECTION OF BOARD MEMBERS.
. General proxies may be used for other matters for which limited proxies are not required, and may also be used in voting for nonsubstantive changes to items for which a limited proxy is required and given. Notwithstanding the provisions of this subparagraph, unit owners may vote in person at unit owner meetings. Nothing contained herein shall limit the use of general proxies or require the use of limited proxies for any agenda item or election at any meeting of a timeshare condominium association.

To further clarify, under d. unit owner meetings
()3. The members of the board shall be elected by written ballot or voting machine. Proxies shall in no event be used in electing the board, either in general elections or elections to fill vacancies caused by recall, resignation, or otherwise, unless otherwise provided in this chapter.

Work on this for a while until we get e-mailed

RobertR1 (South Carolina)
Posts: 5,164

Posted:

Donna,
Florida might have trouble getting their laws enforced, but what you have been showing us lately seem to make a whole lot of sense. Proxies used for voting just dosen't make good sense. Another thing about voting, as far as I know there is not consideration that requires a % numbers to be attained. You could elect a board member with as few ballots that are voted at the meeting.
Thanks for this info, I find it enlightening and supportive of how I have felt since I got into this business.

In many places, with the increase in absentee owners, there is a trend for less and less people that want to be bothered, and if they do get involved they still have to depend on the small numbers of people that reside in the association. It takes more than an annual meeting and a few conference calls a year to keep the association together.

DonnaS (Tennessee)
Posts: 5,671

Posted:

Hey Robert,

Getting any business of amendments,and annual elections taken care of has become such a chore for HOAs because of the lack of members attending. And then you get half or so in rentals who are not allowed to vote. (Thank Goodness). Required by Statutes, there have to be a certain number of the membership attending by proxy or in person. That is where Proxies have saved many a meeting that is required by documents to be held . Of course, there will be some who do not know a single word from the Statutes or their own bylaws and figure, hey, what the heck, I have 30 proxies to use for myself. Thank goodness that the State was one step ahead of these people and wrote the Statutes to fobid an election that was won by one guy, carrying a mit full of proxies.

And like you said, a scenerio could be that mostly proxies allowed a meeting and then 10 people who show up could carry an election for a scoundral Such is life in the HOA meeting.

RobertR1 (South Carolina)
Posts: 5,164

Posted:

Sidney,
I take exception to your state,rmt the 5-6 concerned owner can not make a difference. Lets says each one of those five or six bring an owner to the next meeting. That makes ten or twelve. That many people getting up in a united manner and objecting to this practice of signing their names to proxies and making a motion that the practice be stopped. Have someone second it and the board has to bring it to discussion. I bet your eleven or twelve will out number the Board. The board will peobabky do all they can to stop you, but they have to put the montion and second in the minutes. Then they will like try to justify it and you have the guns that Donna gave you to shoot them down. You could go to the board and tell them but they will probably resent you more. Let them try to ridicule you and your friends at a meeting.

AnnJ1 (Florida)
Posts: 122

Posted:

Sidney,
I am going to try to send a PDF attachment for you. It is a brochure developed by the Florida Division of Land, Sales and Condominiums and it very clearly outlines the process of elections for Fl condo associations. We recently held an election in my association and this brochure was a God send"

Donna is correct in that we cannot use general proxies for our elections. We used ballots that could be timely mailed in or brought to the annual meeting and together, with voting certificates and NO nominations from the floor, it works well!

When you get some time, you might want to go to the "Division" as it has all kinds of articles, brochures etc. It also has an entire section of "administrative codes" which outlines penalties that could be imposed should you not adhere to the statutes or Division rulings.

Hope this helps...
Ann

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SidneyP (Florida)
Posts: 302

Posted:

NO, not condo's...Towmhouse units

SidneyP (Florida)
Posts: 302

Posted:

ANN- Thanks for the information, it was very informative but I doubt it would apply to my community since we are not condo's.

Robert-NC-Believe me Robert, HO's will not show up...there was a meeting concerning the Budget in Jan. there were six living bodies there, (3)HO's and their spouses) No notice was sent out ,not required, only a 48 hour posted notice. MYself/husband and another HO who wishes to be on the Board were there (the Board refuses to let us volunteer) and one other HO couple who came only because I had a e-mail address to inform them of this meeting they live 4 hours away. If HO's don't care about the budget/their money, then what makes you think they would come to an election meeting.

SidneyP (Florida)
Posts: 302

Posted:

ANN- Thanks for the information, it was very informative but I doubt it would apply to my community since we are not condo's.

Robert-NC-Believe me Robert, HO's will not show up...there was a meeting concerning the Budget in Jan. there were six living bodies there, (3)HO's and their spouses) No notice was sent out ,not required, only a 48 hour posted notice. MYself/husband and another HO who wishes to be on the Board were there (the Board refuses to let us volunteer) and one other HO couple who came only because I had a e-mail address to inform them of this meeting they live 4 hours away. If HO's don't care about the budget/their money, then what makes you think they would come to an election meeting.

DonnaS (Tennessee)
Posts: 5,671

Posted:

Sidney,
Okay, back to a new game plan. I'll get at 720 not that I know that you are NOT a condo. Will keep at this. Hang in there.

RobertR1 (South Carolina)
Posts: 5,164

Posted:

Donna,
I agree completely.

As long as we have been at this stuff, I have never sensed in you and the majority of posters here a defeatist attitude. Sometimes things are hard to do, but you do not tackle this monster by first thing out of the box declaring it is impossible to get the interest of your community and make a change. Somewhere in this thread a poster made the remark he can't see any way of contacting his members. The Board and what ever serves as manager has mailing lists of all owner, many associations put out phone books, all that information is on file and available to a Home Owner.
All this information is available on line in the courthouse. If you don't have names, use street addresses. e-mail addresses float around all over the place, build your own list.
Anyway, what you can expect when you want to make a change is hard work and lots of time spent.
Maybe the poster can't do it, but that doesn't mean it can't be done, and that is why a network of owners outside the Board becomes important.
Not to harass the Board, that is never productive, but to say to the Board with the conviction of a small number of homeowners, "Mr. Board, the people standing here or signed this letter believe very strongly that we can make this place a better place by working together." Not matter how you get the message across it will end up with people working together, never fails, if you stay in the game and keep chipping away.

DonnaS (Tennessee)
Posts: 5,671

Posted:

Sidney,

You can reach me at [email protected]

- I certainly do wish to help you if I can.

SidneyP (Florida)
Posts: 302

Posted:

Robert....I was on this Board at one time...I (stupidly) resignes. The Board didn't want to go by the CC&R's (a pick and choose) and I didn't go along w/that....Right now I have more HOA files than the present Board. From the day we took over from the developer I have done more than anyone....I was at the 1st MC's office for 3 hours going through old files and getting copies of the ones I thought important...and I have continued to get all files of importance. I have the HO list and have kept current from tax records.

In another post I stated that I had written at my expense, ALL HO's with what this Board has done to our community. We have 77 units...do you know how many I received a response from...TWO...one was a phone call and the other one drove 4 hours to get to a Board meeting and wasn't allowed to ask questions....This is why it is impossible to get rid of this Board....I will never give up trying but sometimes I wonder why?...Our community is in such a financial mess. I have even offered to Manage (no MC expense) the community on a year trial basis. I said this would get us financially back in the black instead if the red. But I can't do it completely alone, I need some support.

This is why I was trying to find out about the Board controling the proxies. If the secretary can fill in the blank at election than I stand no chance....I have read the CC&R's, articles of Incorportation, By-laws and the FL. State Statues...so many times but have found nothing that answers my question. I just ordered the new State Statues 2007, hoping this will help.

RobertR1 (South Carolina)
Posts: 5,164

Posted:

Sidney,
Well it looks like our friend Donna has given you some ammunition to make one change about the proxies. Now, what and how do you use this information? It will be your choice in the long run and I still suggest you convince several HO that the Board is conducting YOUR AND THEIR business out side your covenants. Isn't there any one person on the board you can get to? If not call a town hall meeting to discuss what to do. You must have a way to contact owners easy, e-mail is best. Don't your association have e-mail lists of your owners? Convince one other couple of your agenda and with the information you have ask them to build a list, let them do it all, stay out of it. You said you need some help. Apparently your advice is not creditable with the Board (been there, done that) just didn't stop me from trying different ways. Sidney, it is no doubt you have your work cut out for you. You are not the first, you have a lot of drive and you sure have the smarts but right now you can't crack the shell. Look for ways to do this. Take a trip down the road and contact associations near you, see if there is any help there. A well run association will be glad to help, a poorly run one will tell you to get lost.

RobertR1 (South Carolina)
Posts: 5,164

Posted:

Sidney,
Well it looks like our friend Donna has given you some ammunition to make one change about the proxies. Now, what and how do you use this information? It will be your choice in the long run and I still suggest you convince several HO that the Board is conducting YOUR AND THEIR business out side your covenants. Isn't there any one person on the board you can get to? If not call a town hall meeting to discuss what to do. You must have a way to contact owners easy, e-mail is best. Don't your association have e-mail lists of your owners? Convince one other couple of your agenda and with the information you have ask them to build a list, let them do it all, stay out of it. You said you need some help. Apparently your advice is not creditable with the Board (been there, done that) just didn't stop me from trying different ways. Sidney, it is no doubt you have your work cut out for you. You are not the first, you have a lot of drive and you sure have the smarts but right now you can't crack the shell. Look for ways to do this. Take a trip down the road and contact associations near you, see if there is any help there. A well run association will be glad to help, a poorly run one will tell you to get lost.

ElizabethB1 (Arkansas)
Posts: 50

Posted:

Sidney,

Do not give up! Four years ago when we bought our unit in our 53 villa neighborhood , I didn't know anyone. I took it upon myself to collect names, addresses(and over time emails). I sent a letter of introduction of myself to my neighbors. Most of us are absentee owners and we're never all here at the same time.

A few weeks after sending my intro letter, I received a note from a fellow neighbor. He was having some issues with the board. He needed MY support.

The lesson is--keep communicating no matter how one-sided. One day someone will need something from you or other neighbors:-)

We have our neighborhood association meeting today. Should be exciting...especially after I make a motion to update our bylaws.

RobertR1 (South Carolina)
Posts: 5,164

Posted:

Elizabeth,
Thanks so much for sending the above post. Coming from an absentee owner just brightens my day. Actually, it is dark and rainy out but you lifted my spirits, and now even the rain sounds nice. I kid you not, what you had to say and what your experience has been could solve 90% of HOA problems. I especially like you upbeat attitude and looking forward to your next meeting. You have a issue you want to bring up and I am sure you have justification to want the job done.

Good luck helps but preparation helps more.

ElizabethB1 (Arkansas)
Posts: 50

Posted:

Robert,

It is a little dark and raining on our end of SC too. I'm off to prepare for the meeting. We must have all our ducks in a row, huh?

Thanks for all the support.

E