Interesting article on rule breaking

This one discusses how organizations can encourage people (board members and others in this case) to take fresh approaches to the way things are done, including rule breaking. Enjoy!

PS - if you often look at articles on this website, you might run into a payment wall for this one, so keep that in mind.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/lisabodell/2024/11/15/a-bold-move-to-banish-employee-burnout-promote-disruptive-rule-breakers/

BH5

No Proxy Voting is a road black in being able to remove/change and entrenched BOD. I love Proxy Voting.

Legalese does have a sleep inducing quality- and to think one spends at least a year in law school learning "Legal writing!" Then again, it's been said "find out who controls the language and you'll find out who controls everything else." Remember, many of these legislators are attorneys and I guess they think as long as 5hey ca read it and understand it, who cares about anyone else? And it keeps them employed!

Personally I think people shoukd make an effort to at least attend the annual meeting so they can meet the people who've made decisions that will affect the community for the next tear and possibly longer, so they can make informed decisions on whether those people should continue. We might have a lot less confusion about when and how to use proxies if people would only tear themselves away from Instagram and ESPN every once in awhile, show up and speak up for themselves, casting their own damned vote

As for this article, I know it's not about HOAS specifically, but the reason I like posting them is because they can provide some useful insight as to why people do the shit they do. This one asked about rule breakers and how they can shake up old ways of thinking in any organization. Its not about breaking tge rules because its old or just because you can - maybe what's needed is some soul searching on whether that approach or procedure still works or should be tweaked or dumped

HOAs often stagnate because people csnt shake the "that's the way we've always done it" attitudes and miss out on opportunities. I'm think of Tim's recent conversation about his efforts to try and update the documents in his community and how some objected for that reason. One man said everything was fine until Tim showed up - the idea of changing anything scares people to death

Since CA instituted absentee mail-in secret balloting, in '06, HOA owners no longer use proxies, tho’ still OK per our Bylaws. The absentee secret ballot counts towards quorum, which for years in my HOA was 25% of all members for election of directors.

We completely restated our Bylaws in ’22, which required a simple majority of members, and eliminated proxy voting, write-ins on ballots, nominations from the floor of the annual meeting, cumulative voting AND quorum* These were recommended by our HOA attorney and by the CA HOA attorneys at Davis-stirling.com, BH5 writes”California should take note.” What does that mean???? Proxy doing is probably legal in Cali. Non-profit Corporations Codes, which apply many kinds or corporations.

BH5 writes they vote like “normal” now. What the heck does that mean? Many many posters here have proxy voting in their HOAs. Does “normal” means secret ballot like it does in Cali?

I also have no idea what you mean, BH5, when you toss in your posts the “confusion between “quorum” and “voting requirements.” I assume this confusion is in your Bylaws? Why not cite it for us??? Maybe there’s no confusion. Maybe y’all have been reading it wrong??

What do you mean vote like normal?

Norma, Proxies are legal. in many states and HOAs. Mail-in voting is legal in many states.

Indeed - and for too long, laws are enacted not so much to serve people's needs but to ensure X group of people make more money and stay in power (you can't have one without the other).

We've never had issues with our proxies either, and they do help people participate in the process. Life can and does get in the way - people might not be able to attend a meeting because they have young children or elderly adults to care for (sometimes both), some have health issues, others have to work or will be in school, in-person or virtual. The problem is people don't pay attention to what's written on the proxy - it could be too much legalese or something else. Consider the average reading grade level in this country is 7th or 8th grade and according to the National Literacy Institute, 54% read at a 6th grade level or lower. Read this (if you can) and it may explain why some things in HOAs happen or don't happen:

https://www.thenationalliteracyinstitute.com/post/literacy-statistics-2024-2025-where-we-are-now#:~:text=54%25%20of%20adults%20have%20a,highest%20rate%20of%20child%20literacy.

Another problem with proxies is that people simply sign it and hand it over to whoever shows up at their door to collect it. Proxies are usually set up to allow you to select someone to attend the meeting and cast a vote on your behalf - who are you picking and can you trust them to do what you say? Better read that proxy so you'll know what you're authorizing them to do.

Coming back around to the article that prompted my starting this conversation - if something isn't working, sometimes you have to consider how it was addressed in the past and whether that approach works anymore. It may be a matter of tweaking a little or you may have to change your thinking about the issue and look at it from a different prespective. In my experience as a HOA board member, I found I picked up lots of ideas from different areas and anything that prompts you to think critically and in a more creative way is always a good thing. It doesn't mean you'll always get it right, but at least you tried, and even if you fail, you'll still learn something.

Innumeracy - haven't heard that word before (I'll have to remember it!)

You're right about association finances - it's always been amazing to me that people think you can run the association for $1.98 and see your property values quadruple (we won't get into the debate about what sends those up, down, and sideways - let alone what "property values" really are). It's bad enough they forget about inflation, despite the fact that very little these days cost what they did even a year ago, let alone 10 or 20. Especially houses - the wear and tear from living in it year in and out will eventually prompt you to repaint, repair, and eventually replace. By the time you do that, the price of materials, labor, taxes, changes in building codes, etc., will affect the price, but some people STILL think the stuff will last forever.

It's frustrating, but board members have to press on and keep providing complete and accurate information, even if they're pretty certain they can say almost anything to homeowners and get away with it. Likewise, if board members babble, evade or get indignant when asked straightforward questions, homeowners have to stop them and make them explain themselves. You'll be able to tell fairly quickly who knows what they're talking about as opposed to repeating whatever the president, property manager, said. Make them make sense and keep asking questions until it does.