Well - that meeting was interesting

Started by TimB4 • 17 replies • 598 views

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TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059

Posted:

Some background has been discussed in the past on the following threads:
Subject: There Hasn't Been An Issue Before
Subject: Responding to those who simply want to kick the can down the road.

Our meeting was yesterday to vote on repealing and replacing our Associations Bylaws.
Challenges were:
Membership simply not understanding the need to update the Bylaws
Membership not comprehending that we are also a corporation and must comply with corporate laws
Extremely high quorum (2/3)
Membership simply not wanting change (were scared over the powers of the board as authorized by the law and written into the proposed bylaws for transparency).

Well, we made our quorum (actually had 5 lots more than the quorum).
The measure failed by one vote.

There were some people praising the board (that was nice to hear)

There was a small group that simply had issues with everything and monopolized the discussion (regardless of trying to reel them in).
I would go into details but it's simply not worth it.

The meeting lasted for one and a half hours.

Lessons I learned:

1) Education of the membership is needed first.
In fact under estimate your memberships understanding of how HOAs work (they really don't know and need be educated on various topics)
2) If there are volunteers, involve the membership when you can.
3) Older people do not like change
4) Original owners think that their words should carry more weight.
5) (already known, but added for others) As President, you are the one blamed for everything.

Just an update and perhaps others can gain insight from my experience.

GregoryT1
Posts: 315

Posted:

Tim you fought the good fight.

I will think over your insights and see what I can apply to my condo assn. Your number one item always bites us in the rear over here that how people are clueless on the condo and hoa stuff. Even the lawyers who live here

I have to figure out how to tackle that.

Thanks for keeping us in the loop.

TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By GregoryT1 on 11/04/2024 6:17 AM
Tim you fought the good fight.

I will think over your insights and see what I can apply to my condo assn. Your number one item always bites us in the rear over here that how people are clueless on the condo and hoa stuff. Even the lawyers who live here

I have to figure out how to tackle that.

We are looking at a quarterly emailed newsletter.
If we can get a website up and running, it would be posted there as well.

CathyA3 (Ohio)
Posts: 6,299

Posted:

At the risk of sounding Pollyanna-ish, that single vote is probably good news - the community isn't adamantly against the changes.

In addition to educating the membership ahead of time, you may want to consider involving your association's attorney in the next meeting. They can explain why the current board isn't making things up and why the community will be better off as a result of the board's efforts.

Example: last week we held what could have been a contentious meeting that involved delivering not-great news (bottom line: assessments are going up). Our attorney attended the first part of the meeting and explained some of the legal wrangling that partly accounted for the increase in assessments (she had been involved, and the issues were sufficiently complicated that the membership needed to hear it from her). Her presence helped avoid arguing. She also told the attendees that they should be thankful that the board spotted trouble coming and called her in before things really went sideways. She turned a potential negative into a positive.

DeanJ
Posts: 1,786

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By TimB4 on 11/04/2024 5:41 AM
Some background has been discussed in the past on the following threads:
Subject: There Hasn't Been An Issue Before
Subject: Responding to those who simply want to kick the can down the road.

Our meeting was yesterday to vote on repealing and replacing our Associations Bylaws.
Challenges were:
Membership simply not understanding the need to update the Bylaws
Membership not comprehending that we are also a corporation and must comply with corporate laws
Extremely high quorum (2/3)
Membership simply not wanting change (were scared over the powers of the board as authorized by the law and written into the proposed bylaws for transparency).

Well, we made our quorum (actually had 5 lots more than the quorum).
The measure failed by one vote.

There were some people praising the board (that was nice to hear)

There was a small group that simply had issues with everything and monopolized the discussion (regardless of trying to reel them in).
I would go into details but it's simply not worth it.

The meeting lasted for one and a half hours.

Lessons I learned:

1) Education of the membership is needed first.
In fact under estimate your memberships understanding of how HOAs work (they really don't know and need be educated on various topics)
2) If there are volunteers, involve the membership when you can.
3) Older people do not like change
4) Original owners think that their words should carry more weight.
5) (already known, but added for others) As President, you are the one blamed for everything.

Just an update and perhaps others can gain insight from my experience.

In my experience, a high quality power point presentation is required for all membership meetings.

It throughly explains the issues at hand and allows better control of the bomb throwers.

SheliaH (Indiana)
Posts: 6,964

Posted:

In one of your last posts, you mentioned that one homeowner wanted you to resign because everything was ok until you showed up and started talking about things like "updating the documents" to make the association run more effectively, so the fact this measure failed by one vote is an accomplishment! For this community, baby steps are probably best - keep educating them (I think you've probably made more progress than you realize) and maybe smaller changes can be reintroduced in the future.

I know from reading your posts over the years and your comments on some of mine that you know what you're talking about this and this community is fortunate to have you. Don't worry too much about the naysayers - changes is difficult for all of us at different times, and eventually, they'll either see the light, move out and the new owners more open to positive change or repeat themselves to the point that eveyone will ignore them because they're not saying anything new.

All of that said, educating the membership is vital - this may be a good time to develop some sort of "welcome to the community" packet for new homeowners where you can provide a plain english summary of the documents (such as they are) and after reading it, they may be more inclined to make some of the same suggestions you tried. Sometimes hearing the same thing from other people has more impact. In any case, you fought the good fight, so step back and relax for now, see what the new year will bring.

If it is not right do not do it; if it is not true do not say it. Marcus Aurelius

LayaS (Nebraska)
Posts: 249

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By TimB4 on 11/04/2024 6:26 AM

I have to figure out how to tackle that.

We are looking at a quarterly emailed newsletter.
If we can get a website up and running, it would be posted there as well.

To Tim, I think your newsletter and website are both good ideas. I recall that when you lived in Virginia you put out a newsletter (you personally not the HOA) you eventually got results. I have faith that you will win over the community in time.

JackieB4 (California)
Posts: 398

Posted:

Wow! This is a much-needed topic for my community (140 SFH HOA). Our CA documents are the originals (1987) and are nearly useless with outdated info (ie-Davis Stirling).
Small steps with patient member education is the key; most associations have chronic troublemakers who contribute nothing but chaos and complaint!! There lies the challenge.
It's like swimming upstream. As always, I appreciate the step-by-step suggestions: ONWARD!

TerriS6 (California)
Posts: 3,284

Posted:

Tim, this comment you made is so true.
"4) Original owners think that their words should carry more weight. "

KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550

Posted:

Yes to Ower education. We completely rested our a. 2000 CC&s And our Bylaws in '22. First, the Board discussed the need at an open board meeting*. In his monthly President's Message in our newsletter. he summed up why we needed to restate them. (The CA statutes as Jackie notes have been added or changed significantly in many ways since 2000 was a big but not the only reason).

Our best approach, was inviting our HOA attorney to a Town Hall one fine morning when also were offered pastries & AM bevs. This ws very well publicized and turnout was excellent. There were a lot of questions and our GC offered to come back in a few weeks to reply to those and to any others ownrs might send him via our PM. By the second meeting, the Boarded a handout of the retquired and sinficnt changes. and our GM did a. fine job of answering all questions.

The. rest was very hard campaigning for 5 months (we need 65% to approve the CC&Rs; 50% for th Byaws.)

*Actually, previous boards had kicked off the project 2-3 years earlier, but other issues to in the way. I think it had ben a year sine v brought up by the Board.

JackieB4 (California)
Posts: 398

Posted:

As I read the numerous comments/experiences each have shared, I feel I should be humming a BLOOD,SWEAT, TEARS rock song.

TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059

Posted:

I appreciate the great comments and the support.

This morning I sent an email to the membership with the results of the meeting.
I received several emails offering words of encouragement. Those were very much appreciated.
In fact, one member offered to start up an email newsletter for us. He does this professionally and would do it for free.
Good things can come out of conflict.

DeanJ
Posts: 1,786

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By TerriS6 on 11/04/2024 1:28 PM
Tim, this comment you made is so true.
"4) Original owners think that their words should carry more weight. "

I don’t know if their words carry more weight, but the original owners are the only ones that have the knowledge both the original vision of of HOA and the changes that have occurred since.

Newer owners tend to favor change that satisfies their immediate wishes with no regard to original vision.

GregoryT1
Posts: 315

Posted:

I have a reverse situation.

Original owners had no vision and had chaos.

New owners trying to the keep the sinking ship afloat and trying to have some decorum, rules and actually follow the docs.

TerriS6 (California)
Posts: 3,284

Posted:

The Declaration and governing documents embody the "original vision." That can all change when the membership votes to amend it. People make a property. The owners/members control the vision. It doesn't mean one is better than the other.

BH5 (Virginia)
Posts: 84

Posted:

We are gearing up for a much-needed update after 40 years.

One thought I had in reading your list of "requirements" is 2/3 quorum. I wonder if your Declaration is like ours where the word "quorum" and "affirm" are confused. Our voting requirement starts out stating that 2/3 must affirm. This is not the same as 2/3 quorum. A few paragraphs later, the "quorum" word is thrown in without ever stating the quorum number. In fact, one of the changes we will be asking for is that this section be rewritten to drop the word quorum since it has no meaning in this context. Many people think quorum is 25% of members participation as stated in other sections, which implies 2/3 of 25% of members can vote in changes. Our lawyer agrees that this language is inconsistent and misleading. The actual requirement is that 2/3s of all members must vote yes (affirm).

It is difficult to get enough votes for changes when the Gov Docs are so poorly written. One of the goals of our update is to remove this type of misleading language.

JackS20 (North Carolina)
Posts: 271

Posted:

please share how the bylaw amendments were presented to the membership? I'd like to read them to see if I can offer advice on how to better word it.
Yes the general population is ignorant.

TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059

Posted:

Jack,

I'm not willing to share proposed bylaws online.

They were presented by:

1. Initial letter identifying the need and the board looking into it.
2. Mail and email with copies of the proposed bylaws, cover letter, existing conflicts or omissions in current bylaws
3. Email offering to meet with anyone who has questions (2 individuals took us up on this offer)
4. Clarifying email on misunderstandings found out at meeting with residents from #3
5. Mail and email showing attorney review and offer to meet with anyone who has questions (nobody asked to meet)
6. 1.5 hour discussion at meeting prior to vote

Again, the measure only failed by one vote.

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