is it really Robert Rule or are they wrong

Started by TerryN2 • 14 replies • 203 views

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TerryN2 (Florida)
Posts: 9

Posted:

I recently moved and first time going to board meetings. There is board members who has been on the board for a very long time and dont want people stepping in his way.
They recently put into effect that anyone that is part of the HOA can talk at the beginning of any board meeting for 3 minutes. There is an agenda sent out 48hrs before meetings. Some lines on the agenda is just a word or two. I wanted to see what they had to say on certain things the agenda before making any comments or ask any question because they may answer them. The president said was unable to talk or ask questions during the meeting only at the beginning. I said How does anyone know what you are going to say when the agenda is not really detailed. One agenda item was Website... that's it noting more. How can they limit the members of the community the right to not speak or have questions during the meeting? They are making rules and having votes without allowing input from the members. Florida just added some new laws so the HOA will be more transparent and I dont believe ours is following these laws but I dont have the money to hire an attorney to even ask such questions. We have a CAM but she is in the office all day with the president that has 2 of the HOA contract. I recently found proof that he has lied about the LLC he said he had if that tells you the type of person he is. Is it Robert Rule not to have community members engage in conversations and votes before they happen?

ElleN (Idaho)
Posts: 1,334

Posted:

Florida statutes state the extent to which owners may comment. If you state whether this is a condominium subject to FS 718 or a homeowners' association subject to 720, I can quote back to you exactly what the statutes say on this topic.

So far the signs are to me that the board is not complying with the statute. Once you indicate whether this is a condo or HOA, then I can suggest a letter to send to the board to try to get it to comply. It is entirely possible the board just does not know the law. They are volunteers, so IMO initial communications should use honey and not vinegar.

TerriS6 (California)
Posts: 3,284

Posted:

Roberts Rules would not govern your situation. It would be state law and your governing documents.

KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550

Posted:

With Terry, even if Robert's rule is required for your Board meetings, since you're not a member of the group that is holding the meeting--the Board-- Robert'sdoes apply to you.

Can you give an example, Terry, of a couple of vague agenda items?

KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550

Posted:

Sorry, "Terri" nd Robert's Rules do not apply to Terry.

TerryN2 (Florida)
Posts: 9

Posted:

We don't live in a condo. It is a house in community of 620 houses.
One Agenda line item said
Website
We have a paid community association manager. She has a state license to know the laws. She is at every meeting.
My thought was there should be a discussion between the board members on agenda items so we know what they are thinking and then open discussions with the few community members who show up. Normally only about 4 or 5.
Come to find out that you can only speak at the beginning of the meeting for 3 minutes. I used my 3 minutes to express my concerns about landscaping options they were looking to do that could harm existing plants and trees. During the meeting they came out with the cost of each and they decided to stay with what we had. Wasted my only 3 minutes and theirs when it wasn't going to change. Then they set policies on requesting documents which I believe is against state law. I couldn't speak up to tell them to look at the new laws.

DeanJ
Posts: 1,786

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By TerryN2 on 10/31/2024 11:03 AM
I recently moved and first time going to board meetings. There is board members who has been on the board for a very long time and dont want people stepping in his way.
They recently put into effect that anyone that is part of the HOA can talk at the beginning of any board meeting for 3 minutes. There is an agenda sent out 48hrs before meetings. Some lines on the agenda is just a word or two. I wanted to see what they had to say on certain things the agenda before making any comments or ask any question because they may answer them. The president said was unable to talk or ask questions during the meeting only at the beginning. I said How does anyone know what you are going to say when the agenda is not really detailed. One agenda item was Website... that's it noting more. How can they limit the members of the community the right to not speak or have questions during the meeting? They are making rules and having votes without allowing input from the members. Florida just added some new laws so the HOA will be more transparent and I dont believe ours is following these laws but I dont have the money to hire an attorney to even ask such questions. We have a CAM but she is in the office all day with the president that has 2 of the HOA contract. I recently found proof that he has lied about the LLC he said he had if that tells you the type of person he is. Is it Robert Rule not to have community members engage in conversations and votes before they happen?

New Business

Website.

If I had any complaints or changes I desired to the website, I would provide my comments.

____________________________________

A month later -

Old Business

Website

I would address any concerns with the boards discussion at the previous meeting.

ElleN (Idaho)
Posts: 1,334

Posted:

TerryN2,

Are you familiar with Florida Statute 720, the HOA statute for Florida? Among other things, it says:

"Notices of all board meetings must specifically identify agenda items for the meetings...

All you can do is quote this to the board and ask that they provide more specificity.

SheliaH (Indiana)
Posts: 6,964

Posted:

It looks like your board has a resident forum at the start of the meeting, which really isn't a Robert's Rule of Order issue. Resident forums are generally used to give homeowners a chance to sound off on any association issue, and aren't limited to what's on the agenda. The agenda summarizes what issues the board will discuss during the business portion of the meeting.

Personally I prefer a few words to describe what will be discussed, such as "review of landscaping bids", but I don't necessarily need a blow by blow description of "treasurer's report." It may be new business and the board is just beginning to dive into an issue so I don't expect details in the beginning

During resident forum, the board listens to what's being said, but doesn't have to make an immediate decision on an issue raised during resident forum. Sometimes people might discuss something that's already on the agenda and the board might note that when they get to that point in the meeting. Sometimes a great suggestion is made that could promote the board to research it a little more and discuss it in more detail at the next meeting. Or people complain about something else that could prompt the the board to reconsider a decision made two months ago. It might not completely reverse itself but make a few changes.

Once the forum ends, homeowners shoukd be encouraged to stay and listen to the business portion of the meeting (most of the stuff on the agenda), but comments or questions from the floor aren't permitted som5he board can address all the agenda items. Some of those items are time sensitive and decisions have to be made at that meeting, so constant interjecting from the audience would slow everything down.

Since this is your first time attending an HOA board meeting, give yourself some time to attend a few and listen to the proceedings to get an overview of whats going on in the community. Read a few board meeting minutes from the last six months or so and talk to some of your neighbors-including the board members, because that's what they are. If there's something you don't understand, ask. Eventually, you'll find something you'll want to discuss at resident forum and you'll know what to say. You can still write the board and make your comments and suggestions.

Better yet, if you hear the board say they'd like more information or help on an issue that you know about, offer to help. That will help you become more acquainted with community issues and you may find you'd like to take a whack at serving on the board or an advisory committee yourself.

If it is not right do not do it; if it is not true do not say it. Marcus Aurelius

LoriM15 (Florida)
Posts: 1,009

Posted:

I may be in the minority here, but I don't think there's anything wrong with an agenda that has an item called "website". They are discussing the website (for which the changes in the Florida statues has made really important) and why does it have to have more detail than that?

FS 720, the statute that governs HOAs, says this about owners speaking at board meetings. The "designated items" are the items on the published agenda.

Members have the right to attend all meetings of the board. The right to attend such meetings includes the right to speak at such meetings with reference to all designated items. The association may adopt written reasonable rules expanding the right of members to speak and governing the frequency, duration, and other manner of member statements, which rules must be consistent with this paragraph and may include a sign-up sheet for members wishing to speak. Notwithstanding any other law, meetings between the board or a committee and the association’s attorney to discuss proposed or pending litigation or meetings of the board held for the purpose of discussing personnel matters are not required to be open to the members other than directors.

It is not uncommon to have time limits on owner comments, especially in large HOAs or ones where there is controversy and they have had issues in the past with owners interrupting or taking large amounts of time to make comments. I've been to some awful HOA meetings where owners with a special interest on one topic go on and on and extend the meeting time.

At our meetings, we ask for comments after each item before we take a vote (if we do). However, our board meetings usually aren't contentious.

Just because you can't speak at a board meeting and address every issue you have doesn't mean you can't send an email or a letter outside of the board meeting with your comments.

TerryN2 (Florida)
Posts: 9

Posted:

thanks yes I am aware of it. It is a new law that says detailed agenda.

LoriM15 (Florida)
Posts: 1,009

Posted:

Show me where it defines detailed agenda. I would argue that anything other than a general "new business" is a detailed agenda. If the agenda says, under new business, "website", "road contract", "landscaping", etc. then you would have a really hard time getting DBPR or anyone else to say that wasn't detailed.

The minutes of the meeting with the details of the discussion are public records. The bids and contracts that have been signed are public records. All of those should be on your website and if they aren't they have to be as of January 1.

Board members are elected to represent the owners and conduct business for owners. Not everyone is good at it and some do break the rules. However, HOAs are not a democracy. Owners do not have the right to speak openly at board meetings if the HOA has rules that say otherwise, as long as they allow you speak - even with a time limit or at a specific time in the meeting.

As someone else suggested, if you feel that you are not getting all of the information, then consider volunteering for a committee or running for the board.

TerryN2 (Florida)
Posts: 9

Posted:

It is 720 homeowners not a condo.

All questions and comments we can send to the office that is our CAM and president. That was part of getting records at the last meeting that we can no longer email a requests in that you will have to send a request in certified mail. then you have to go to the office to make copies and will have to pay for the copies they will no longer email you the information.
I think at the beginning of 2025 everything you would want will be available on the website but not sure if the contracts and bids will be on there.

TerryN2 (Florida)
Posts: 9

Posted:

There has been several of us that volunteer to help with this and that. One person on the board said she would volunteer to be in the office for when the CAM is on vacation instead of paying the president to go sit down there. Several people have volunteered to walk around and help the CAM write up any violations, we were told no. We have also volunteered to clean up, paint and plant plants at the entrances. We were told this was being planned to be hired out to be done in Nov.

LoriM15 (Florida)
Posts: 1,009

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By TerryN2 on 11/01/2024 10:47 AM
It is 720 homeowners not a condo.

All questions and comments we can send to the office that is our CAM and president. That was part of getting records at the last meeting that we can no longer email a requests in that you will have to send a request in certified mail. then you have to go to the office to make copies and will have to pay for the copies they will no longer email you the information.
I think at the beginning of 2025 everything you would want will be available on the website but not sure if the contracts and bids will be on there.

As of January 1, 2025 all of the public records of the association have to be on the website. There are very specific requirements for the website that are outlined in the HB 1203, which is the new legislation. That includes the bids (I believe they have to be kept a year) and the active contracts plus much more that need to be available to owners.

It sounds like your association put into place a new records request policy which outlines exactly what you have to do to get association records. This is all outlined in the statute.

Somebody in your association (CAM or the board) is paying attention to the changes to FS 720. All of the things you have discussed are legal. It looks as if they are trying to put some structure into the way the association is being run.

Elections are coming up for most associations in January or February. You might want to consider running.

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