what to do with the dang ducks

Started by TristaJ • 19 replies • 223 views

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TristaJ (Texas)
Posts: 96

Posted:

Hello all!

We're in Texas. We have townhomes that are all connected with small patios for yards. We have a resident who has decided to keep ducks on his patio. It's against our bylaws and it's against City code. It's low priority for the City to mess with, as we're in Houston and animal control has bigger fish to fry.

The homeowner now wants a hearing with the board, which we feel is a waste of time due to the fact it's in our bylaws and City laws, and yes, we've e-mailed him both of these things and he got the bylaws at his closing.

What are we supposed to say at a hearing that we haven't already said in the e-mails? We're just kind of unsure what to say that we haven't already told him.

Any advice?

this is the City law: Sec. 6-31. Location restrictions for fowl.
(a) It is unlawful, except as provided in sections 6-33 and 6-34 (6-33 and 34 have to do with commercial and showing ducks) of this Code, for any person to keep, possess or maintain in the city any chickens, turkeys, geese, ducks, pea-fowls, or any other bird or fowl, except parakeets, canaries, parrots, cockatoos, macaws or similar size birds, or any pens, enclosures, or other structures in which any such fowl are kept or possessed within 100 feet of any actual residence or habitation of human beings, or within 100 feet of any church, school or hospital, other than the residence of the keeper, possessor or owner of such the fowl, such the distance of 100 feet to be measured in a straight line from the nearest point of any pen, enclosure, or other such structure in which such the fowl are kept to the nearest point of such the actual residence or place of human habitation, or church, school or hospital.
(b) Any enclosure or structure located outside of a residence that is used to contain fowl and satisfies the distance requirement set forth in subsection (a) of this section shall be constructed in accordance with any applicable standards and requirements set forth in the Building Code.

GregoryT1
Posts: 315

Posted:

hi What makes you think the city will not help out? You might be surprised that they will do something.

Others have more experience than I. I say fine the person according to your rules.

TristaJ (Texas)
Posts: 96

Posted:

We have called the City three times. They have done nothing.

GregoryT1
Posts: 315

Posted:

Wow that stinks.

Actually I have more respect for my city. Some things actually happens over here with some prodding.

Fine them.

TristaJ (Texas)
Posts: 96

Posted:

we don't have fining for that in our CCRs.

GregoryT1
Posts: 315

Posted:

Do you have generic fines at least. If you have any fining types what are they.

Are you condo or HOA and is the patio common element or limited common element?

TristaJ (Texas)
Posts: 96

Posted:

We only have fines for late payment of dues. Patio is the homeowner's. But, again, city and our bylaws so no ducks.

TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059

Posted:

Physically go down and talk to someone vs. a phone call.

Bring pictures if you have them.

It's harder to say no in person than over the phone.

DeanJ
Posts: 1,786

Posted:

A hearing is simply the opportunity to state one’s case. That doesn’t mean the board has to say much. If he claims the ducks are support animals, you better give your attorney a call.

KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550

Posted:

Are you sure your HOA prohibition is in your "bylaws?" This sounds like a "rule" instead.

Anyway, if your CC&Rs gives the HOA the authority to fine, or TX statutes, your Board needs to place Fine Schedule on a board meeting agenda and vote on it, and make it an Association rule.

LetA (Nevada)
Posts: 2,679

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By TristaJ on 10/30/2024 12:17 PM
We have called the City three times. They have done nothing.

Call Animal Control, Call the Health Department, Call your local Code Enforcement. You need to put a bug up someone's behind.

CathyA3 (Ohio)
Posts: 6,299

Posted:

You need to go through the violation process as outlined in your governing docs, and that includes a hearing. It doesn't matter how many emails you've sent repeating the same information. This stuff should be in writing (probably snail mail) so that the HOA has proof that it followed procedures. This will protect you when Duck Boy responds negatively to any fines or other penalties.

And are these wild ducks or pets? I'm assuming the latter. In any case, be kind to the ducks - they're innocent bystanders here and are having a hard enough time these days. There also may be laws about harming wildlife and pets - you need to know what those are.

A large apartment complex in my area employs a groundskeeper who has the education and certifications that allow him to legally manage the wildlife in the community.

(They also temporarily solved the Canada goose problem by renting a couple pairs of swans from a local farmer, and the swans drove away the geese because the ponds were "theirs". I say "temporarily" because while the swans were used to humans, their offspring that hatched on the apartment complex's property were not - they were wild. I could deal with the offspring because I speak fluent bird, but it was a bit intimidating when one of them reared up in front of me, wings spread and ready to argue when I tried to shoo it out of the middle of the street. The young swan's head was shoulder height, so it could have nailed me in the face. Fortunately ducks aren't that feisty. Geese are feisty during nesting season and if you're afraid of them.

** What finally solved the goose and wild duck issue was placing some kind of netting on the ponds. Water fowl congregate around bodies of water for safety. If there is netting and they can't swim, they go elsewhere. **

Thank you for listening to Bird Talk.)

TristaJ (Texas)
Posts: 96

Posted:

These are their pet ducks. They also have 5 dogs (only three dogs are allowed in the city, but they live indoors so I'm not even going there), a snake, cats and birds -- other than the ducks.
They live in a 944 sq foot townhome. We have followed the laws of sending certified mail, way more times than we have to. The ducks live on their 20x20 patio. One got out a couple months ago and was killed by something and found on their neighbors patio. gruesome. I would never harm an animal. I feel for the ducks that they are confined to a patio and a kiddie pool.

Again, we would never hurt the animals. It's not their fault. The ducks are pets. They live on a 20x20 patio. We have sent more than the required snail mail notifying them that the ducks are against our bylaws and city laws.

I guess we'll just let him have his hearing and repeat what we've said in the five notices he's been sent. A waste of my time, but I signed up for this...I guess.

TristaJ (Texas)
Posts: 96

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By TimB4 on 10/30/2024 3:17 PM
Physically go down and talk to someone vs. a phone call.

Bring pictures if you have them.

It's harder to say no in person than over the phone.

We have talked. We were told they felt threatened. I told them if they feel threatened by anyone in the neighborhood, they should call the police. That's the kind of people we're dealing with.

TristaJ (Texas)
Posts: 96

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By KerryL1 on 10/30/2024 6:53 PM
Are you sure your HOA prohibition is in your "bylaws?" This sounds like a "rule" instead.

Anyway, if your CC&Rs gives the HOA the authority to fine, or TX statutes, your Board needs to place Fine Schedule on a board meeting agenda and vote on it, and make it an Association rule.

It's the CCRs. I often confused CCRs and bylaws. My mistake. It's city/county law first. We do not have the ability to sign without changing the CCRs and bylaws, which I guess we'll have to do.

TristaJ (Texas)
Posts: 96

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By DeanJ on 10/30/2024 3:54 PM
A hearing is simply the opportunity to state one’s case. That doesn’t mean the board has to say much. If he claims the ducks are support animals, you better give your attorney a call.

One of our board members found a law that says ducks are not considered support animals. Not sure how enforced that would be.

DouglasK1 (Florida)
Posts: 2,046

Posted:

While you can certainly keep calling animal control, the association generally does not enforce city laws, nor have the authority to do so. You can only enforce what's in the governing docs. If you do meet with the owners, focus on the HOA violations.

Escaped former treasurer and director of a self managed association.

GregoryT1
Posts: 315

Posted:

Can the association as an entity have rights to call the city to fine them via the city fines? The question is does the association or the individual owner file the complaint. It's an old dilemma and I find if the docs do not support like Douglas is saying then individuals can file a complaint. The association may not be able to fine the owner but couldn't the association file a complaint with the city? I think that could be done. I think it's best to have individuals contact the city. Be careful of selective enforcement if it is the association.

Up here we have bear issues and the State issued heavy duty fines for feeding the bears with some details on what a person should not be doing. $1000 fine.

A CID where I have some relatives living sent out letters to everyone warning that the bird feeders have to be put away etc. So everyone is on the same page. If that one person does not want to listen couldn't that community contact the state if they wanted and bring attention to the issue and let the State take action?

TristaJ (Texas)
Posts: 96

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By GregoryT1 on 10/31/2024 6:33 AM
Can the association as an entity have rights to call the city to fine them via the city fines? The question is does the association or the individual owner file the complaint. It's an old dilemma and I find if the docs do not support like Douglas is saying then individuals can file a complaint. The association may not be able to fine the owner but couldn't the association file a complaint with the city? I think that could be done. I think it's best to have individuals contact the city. Be careful of selective enforcement if it is the association.

Up here we have bear issues and the State issued heavy duty fines for feeding the bears with some details on what a person should not be doing. $1000 fine.

A CID where I have some relatives living sent out letters to everyone warning that the bird feeders have to be put away etc. So everyone is on the same page. If that one person does not want to listen couldn't that community contact the state if they wanted and bring attention to the issue and let the State take action?

Bears?!?!? wow! that would be scary. Residents have complained to the city. Due to Houston's homeless animal issues, it's a low priority for the city.

GregoryT1
Posts: 315

Posted:

I think we are heading to the fining schedule which Kerry pointed out. You will need to find out how Texas rolls with fines. In NJ the courts do not like heavy fines but easy going fines in amounts that are small. They are more concerned about the late payments etc then the fines.

Ask them if they can have visitors and have a petting zoo. Just kidding. Need to look at the humor side of things. Hang in there.

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