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SusanO3 (California)
Posts: 163
Posted:
Hi Guys: I just had a phone call from a Board Member who is part of a neighborhood What's App group where there was a convo over the weekend that devolved into name calling etc. I didn't even know we had a informal HOA What's App group! It started at some time as a neighbor helping neighbor, and now has become a conflict forum for a handful of members.

Having read posts on HOA talk for a couple of years I know this happens! I've looked at CCRs and By Laws and there is nothing to address this sort of thing. I think the dissatisfaction hinges upon monthly dues for 2025, again not a surprise.

I think what I need now is any wisdom about how others have handled things when the get into this pickle, with a few members on social media venting! I have an HOA lawyer that I will consult etc. but wanted some hands on advice as well. Regards, Sue
SheliaH (Indiana)
Posts: 6,964
Posted:
If this group isn't officially sponsored by the association, it isnt a HOA issue. It's possible most people haven't seen it and it will blow over. If thjs group starts misrepresenting the board's position, acdress it tnrough official channels and make it clear this group doesn’t represent the board.

If things get p personal, individual board members can't address that eith whomever is foaming at the mouth, but even then, taking action would be appropriate if it's running into libel or slander territory.

If it is not right do not do it; if it is not true do not say it. Marcus Aurelius
TerriS6 (California)
Posts: 3,284
Posted:
Good for board members to stay off the app but reading it might give you insight about members’ concerns.
DeanJ
Posts: 1,786
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By SusanO3 on 10/28/2024 5:37 PM
Hi Guys: I just had a phone call from a Board Member who is part of a neighborhood What's App group where there was a convo over the weekend that devolved into name calling etc. I didn't even know we had a informal HOA What's App group! It started at some time as a neighbor helping neighbor, and now has become a conflict forum for a handful of members.

Having read posts on HOA talk for a couple of years I know this happens! I've looked at CCRs and By Laws and there is nothing to address this sort of thing. I think the dissatisfaction hinges upon monthly dues for 2025, again not a surprise.

I think what I need now is any wisdom about how others have handled things when the get into this pickle, with a few members on social media venting! I have an HOA lawyer that I will consult etc. but wanted some hands on advice as well. Regards, Sue

Sounds like you just passed the increase. I would let things cool a bit before I reacted with enacting rules. I would use the HOA’s official means of communication to educate why the increase was required and the negative long term effects of passing inadequate budgets.

TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059
Posted:
With others, it's not an HOA issue and Directors should not respond on the app.

It's possible that you didn't explain the reason for the increase in assessments well enough. You may want to place an article in the Association newsletter to better explain the increase. I've attached a break down of what my past association has done.

I've also included a breakdown we use to run in our newsletter from time to time.
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TerriS6 (California)
Posts: 3,284
Posted:
In CA, boards can't increase assessments (without a member vote) unless it sends a budge report between 30-90 days prior to the due date which is very detailed. Also, it can't charge more than it actually needs to cover costs plus reserves. But some boards don't involve members in the development of the budget which is a mistake - not that Susan's board did this.
CathyA3 (Ohio)
Posts: 6,299
Posted:
We're having our budget meeting tonight. We're coming off five years of keeping assessments unrealistically low, and now we have to fill up the financial hole we've dug for ourselves.

I've attached the handout that I will use to explain why low assessments do not lead to low expenses and, in reality, do the exact opposite. It's the old adage of the cheapskate spending the most. (This notion of keeping costs down by keeping assessments low is a widespread misconception in community associations, and my mission in life is to correct it.)

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CathyA3 (Ohio)
Posts: 6,299
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By TerriS6 on 10/29/2024 4:45 AM
In CA, boards can't increase assessments (without a member vote) unless it sends a budge report between 30-90 days prior to the due date which is very detailed. Also, it can't charge more than it actually needs to cover costs plus reserves. But some boards don't involve members in the development of the budget which is a mistake - not that Susan's board did this.

The problem with this is that there are always unplanned expenses. When this happens, the board has to make compromises (see my Condo Math attachment in a previous post). If the board is limited to planned expenditures and reserve contributions only, the smart thing to do will be to overestimate those planned expenditures or add some discretionary spending so that they can deal with an unexpected roof leak.

Numbers don't lie. It's humans who lie to themselves about how numbers work and then are outraged when the numbers don't go along with the nonsense. It's frustrating beyond belief.
TerriS6 (California)
Posts: 3,284
Posted:
A pro forma budget is required. That is adjustable during the year.
MarshallT (New York)
Posts: 414
Posted:
There isn't much that can be done if it's an informal group unless something is bad enough to become a legal issue. As others have suggested, the board shouldn't respond to this group.

2025 is going to bean expensive year for a lot of associations, and the members of this group should keep in mind that board members have to pay monthly dues, too.
KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550
Posted:
Though we'e had the same reserve specialist for the pas several year, before his film & including him, all are very willing to "educate" owners at Town Halls with ample Q & As, etc.
CathyA3 (Ohio)
Posts: 6,299
Posted:
As far as trash talking homeowners go, the best thing a board can to is be transparent. Give the membership accurate, easily accessible information, especially with the financial stuff since that tends to get most people's attention. Lean toward more information rather than less - you never know what somebody's pet peeve is.

You're essentially making liars out of the trash talkers(*), in full view of everyone but without actually calling them names.

* They're actually making liars out of themselves, but I believe in taking victory laps when they present themselves.

SusanO3 (California)
Posts: 163
Posted:
Thank you all for the replies, and the examples of documents that you shared. Much appreciated.

Does anyone include Social Media/ Harassment guidelines in their CCRs, By Laws, or Rules & Regs because you've had an issue with this? Regards,
TerriS6 (California)
Posts: 3,284
Posted:
California protects speech on social media even when critical of the board. HOA not allowed to make rules against it.
TerriS6 (California)
Posts: 3,284
Posted:
Civil Code section 4515
SusanO3 (California)
Posts: 163
Posted:
Thank you Terri, now I know why it's not included in CCRs in CA! So I'm thinking what is going on the the What's App group needs to be addressed by the Board/WA Group member on a personal level, but will check in with our Attorney before taking that thought much further. Sue
DeanJ
Posts: 1,786
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By TerriS6 on 10/29/2024 2:58 PM
California protects speech on social media even when critical of the board. HOA not allowed to make rules against it.

I suppose they can’t, but these groups many times cross the line and claim the HOA and the board members are committing illegal acts. Many members of boards positions of trust as part of their business and employment and baseless claims on social media can damage their reputations. The bomb throwers are not protected against lawsuits for slander and libel.

CathyA3 (Ohio)
Posts: 6,299
Posted:
Our lawyers strongly recommended against using social media as a platform for official HOA/COA communications. This is because the association is liable for anything that appears on its platforms, and social media tends to collect problematic stuff: copyright violations, false accusations, dicey photos, racist talk, etc. Social media *encourages* bad behavior, and is not an appropriate vehicle for association communications.

So if your HOA is using Whats App, I recommend shutting it down and coming up with a different method of communication. If the group is not official, then leave them to it. Board members who are in the group should not participate at all, although I understand wanting to monitor what people are saying so that you know where your official communications need to be beefed up. If you're concerned some of the Whats App chatter crosses the line into defamatory or actionable speech, check with the association lawyer. But defamation claims are very hard to prove, showing actual damages is even harder. Lawsuits are costly and spread the rumors even further (see the Streisand Effect). Individual board members can certainly take action on their own behalf, especially if the defamatory language involves things such as accusations of criminal acts, since that's defamation per se and damages are assumed.
TerriS6 (California)
Posts: 3,284
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By DeanJ on 10/29/2024 5:58 PM
Posted By TerriS6 on 10/29/2024 2:58 PM
California protects speech on social media even when critical of the board. HOA not allowed to make rules against it.


I suppose they can’t, but these groups many times cross the line and claim the HOA and the board members are committing illegal acts. Many members of boards positions of trust as part of their business and employment and baseless claims on social media can damage their reputations. The bomb throwers are not protected against lawsuits for slander and libel.


Well, they are if the publication is confined mostly to the membership. There is a certain privilege when words are spoken in that setting.
KellyM3 (North Carolina)
Posts: 2,239
Posted:

I would ignore it and certainly not reply.

If asked, remind neighbors that what is said via WhatsApp has no bearing on board business and may actually result in lost credibility for neighbors who may wish to engage w/ the board (even if to lodge criticism).

Join the circus...be viewed as a clown.
BillD16 (Texas)
Posts: 971
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By SusanO3 on 10/28/2024 5:37 PM
Hi Guys: I just had a phone call from a Board Member who is part of a neighborhood What's App group where there was a convo over the weekend that devolved into name calling etc. I didn't even know we had an informal HOA What's App group! It started at some time as a neighbor helping neighbor, and now has become a conflict forum for a handful of members.

I dislike how melodramatic this sounds, but over the past year I was the target of a smear campaign via an “unofficial” social media group (and just plain malicious gossip). I tried to take the “high road” and ignore it and not engage - it didn’t work. I looked at a defamation lawsuit - expensive, and even then, the lawyers I spoke to weren’t especially interested. Even our HOA attorney was like “it’s too bad - sorry”.

Having gone through all of that, I really wish I had some advice on how to deal with it. The only insight I can offer is: have you ever read Shirley Jackson’s “The Lottery”? From my perspective, it felt very much like everyone in the neighborhood decided to gang up on me. What do you do when that happens? GTFO, if possible. Ideally, I guess it would be wisest to somehow prevent it from happening in the first place. Not the most practical advice, I know.

Bill

HOA Board ex-President
Austin, Texas USA

“You can’t put too much water in a nuclear reactor”

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