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BH5 (Virginia)
Posts: 84
Posted:
HOA Location: Virginia

Our HOA board is unable to conduct business because one board member (sometimes another person who is a previous board member) regularly disrupts the meeting. As a member of the HOA, I would like to figure out how I can intervene to get this harassment stopped so the community can get basic needs voted upon and accomplished. The meetings last for four or more hours due to this harassment which has included calling a board member a spiteful b####. They have tried the five-minute comment limit rule. Then the person says they are not letting them express their opinions. So, they relent. The Board is trying to be very careful and always accommodating these two people especially since one person (who is on the Board) has also filed a lawsuit against the HOA, and the other person has accused by formal complaint some board members of fraud for getting reimbursed for small purchases (plants, planters, paint, flowers, etc.).

There seems to be laws against HOA boards harassing HOA members, but not the other way around.

Since I am not the one being directly harassed, does it seem feasible that I could file a complaint based on the argument that the HOA is not functional and I as a member am being negatively impacted?

Also, are any of you aware of free legal services specializing in Virginia HOA matters?

TerriS6 (California)
Posts: 3,284
Posted:
Who is the chairman? It's his/her duty to manage meetings. Sounds like your chairman is timid and causing the problem.
TerriS6 (California)
Posts: 3,284
Posted:
Here's some interesting info on censure.

https://www.davis-stirling.com/HOME/C/Censuring-Directors
BH5 (Virginia)
Posts: 84
Posted:
Terri,

They are the target, unfortunately. Have tried everything.
TerriS6 (California)
Posts: 3,284
Posted:
Civil harassment restraining orders? I think they are pretty easy and inexpensive to get.
BH5 (Virginia)
Posts: 84
Posted:
Terri,

I do like so much of what I've read from California's laws. This is VA and that is my focus. In our Gov Docs we can remove a board member with 25% of the members voting affirmatively. But this person would continue the harassment even if not on the board. As it is now, they never get their outlandish motions passed because nobody, mostly, (the other 6) votes with them. This is what infuriates them. The other person is no longer on the board but continues the harassment.

DeanJ
Posts: 1,786
Posted:


Pass a regulation for conduct at meeting.

“No person(s), including a board member(s), shall interrupt a meeting in any manor.

When the presiding officer finds a person is interrupting a meeting, the presiding officer shall provide a verbal warning to the person and this warning shall be recorded in the meeting minutes.

When the presiding officer finds a person is continuing to interrupt the meeting, the presiding officer shall recess the public portion of the meeting and call an executive session. The board shall meet in executive session and determine if the person’s actions are violating the HOA regulations. A person determined to be interrupting a meeting shall be fined $100 for each offense. “

CathyA3 (Ohio)
Posts: 6,299
Posted:
The board should also develop and approve a code of acceptable conduct at meetings, and the code should apply to all attendees.

If you are allowed to conduct business via Zoom or other online meeting app, I suggest using them. The person who runs a Zoom meeting is able to mute persons other then the current speaker, and it can help that person if they're not confident in their abilities to control meetings. These meetings also help train all attendees in proper decorum and may help you get back to in-person meeting faster.

If you want to continue to meet in person, our lawyers told us that if someone is disrupting the meeting, the chair should adjourn the meeting for 10-15 minutes until everyone can calm down. They also said that if the person refuses to stop and this is a continuing issue, consider having an off-duty police officer present who can escort the person from the room. It's also illegal in my state to disrupt a business meeting, so our boards have the option of taking legal action against someone who does this.

But the main goal is to figure out what the disruptive person is trying to achieve and to not give them what they want. Easier said than done, I know. But this person is holding the board hostage to their issues, whatever they are. It can't be allowed to continue.

DeanJ
Posts: 1,786
Posted:
Cathy, I checked and didn’t find a law in Virginia similar to Ohio’s.
BH5 (Virginia)
Posts: 84
Posted:
Cathy,

Thank you. We only have Zoom meetings, but I do like the of idea of looking into an off-duty police officer being present. Maybe that would be enough, or at least they could observe the behavior. Actually, the disruptive persons are more concerned with attacking anyone that doesn't agree with them. They developed a deep animosity against three members. They flip on any issue just to always be against the three people that usually do not (or did not for previous board member) vote with them. It is really more of a childish jealousy and hurt feelings issue with the disrupters. One of these disrupters is on the board now, so they often get out voted by 5:2, but often 5:1:0 because one person often abstains because they are trying to be neutral. Whenever the disrupter is outvoted, they come up with a new motion similar to previous one and then the board has to go around again with comments and votes. Then the disrupter does it again. Motion, after motion, the disrupter usually goes on a rant after a few rounds. Then the board moves on to the next agenda item. It's a merry go around. There are very few motions on which this person votes with the others, and very often abstains with the comment, "nobody cares what I think." The other board members and the member presiding over the meeting (President) are very patient, always thanks the disrupter for their comments. Even when called names, the president has made a mild comment such as "that's not nice" or "oh wow," and they have also made a motion to adjourn the meeting at least once. I think they have tried every tactic in the book. The ongoing tactic seems to be "don't give them anything to bite on by always being polite and letting them talk" which has worked to some extent. Of course, the disrupter is "baiting" them into saying something wrong, so this tactic infuriates the disrupter even more.
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059
Posted:
If you have the meeting at someones home:

The president should give one warning.
If the activity continues, the President should place the meeting in recess.
The owner of the home asks the individual/s to leave.
If they do not, the owner should contact the police and site them for trespassing.
Once the individual leaves, the President reconvenes the meeting.

If you have the meeting elsewhere, then paying for a local police officer to attend might be helpful.
TerriS6 (California)
Posts: 3,284
Posted:
On Zoom, the chairman can mute the offenders.
CathyA3 (Ohio)
Posts: 6,299
Posted:
If these are homeowners, then they're looking for the reaction and drama. It's your job not to give them what they want. We've successfully used the Gray Rock method, also known as "brief, bland, boring".

You have to stick with it even after they settle down (which can take a year or more), because you haven't cured whatever it is that drives them to behave this way. You've only trained them that this board is a pile of rocks and that they won't get anywhere by acting up. Drop the gray rock approach or elect new board members, and they'll be back at it. It's them, not you. But you control their behavior by how you communicate with them.

As the article notes, these folks may escalate once you start making like a rock - especially if their bad behavior has been rewarded for a long time. Your safety always comes first, so watch out for signs of this. The board members should have each other's backs. You may need to get the association attorney or the police involved if things start to go sideways.

GregoryT1
Posts: 315
Posted:
Cathy I heard you used brief, bland and boring before but I did not know it had a method name of gray rocking. Heck I can use it for family meetings.

the OP does the time length need to be five minutes it sounds a bit of a long time.

the board member and the former board member who are acting up is there one major point that they have that could be valid? I am just playing the devil's advocate.

thanks and sorry that you are going through this.
KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550
Posted:
I only skimmed the most recent so may have misread this: Is there some statute in VA that allows owners to comment on every agenda item??

Add burning to ES, btw, wouldn't legal in CA dues to a 2-day notice requirement.Is it legal in VA?
CathyA3 (Ohio)
Posts: 6,299
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By GregoryT1 on 10/16/2024 5:19 PM
Cathy I heard you used brief, bland and boring before but I did not know it had a method name of gray rocking. Heck I can use it for family meetings.

Yup. :-)

I actually came up with "brief, bland, boring" before I came across the gray rock method. Different names for the same approach. Both recognize that you can't control other people's behavior. Instead you control the interaction by changing your piece of it, which removes the emotional payoff the other person gets from acting up. It takes time and consistency, but eventually the other person realizes that this just isn't any fun anymore.

Our lawyers actually had a name for the people who harass the board and disrupt things. They referred to them as "vocational dissidents", since it appeared that their sole purpose in life was to oppose anything the board was trying to do. As was noted upthread, this knee jerk reaction sometimes results in the vocational dissidents supporting and opposing the same thing depending on who was saying it. This would be amusing if these folks didn't do real harm. (Our most recent crop of vocational dissidents managed to run off our entire board last spring, so we were facing the possibility of receivership. If we hadn't had a community manager with year long contract in place, we wouldn't have been paying any of our bills or been able to react to an emergency.)
MichaelS56 (Minnesota)
Posts: 859
Posted:
Minnesota has a state law that pertains to harassment. We have incorporated that law into our Rules and Regulations.
BH5 (Virginia)
Posts: 84
Posted:
All,

Thank you all for your thoughtful responses. Short on time for more of a response but thank you.
JeffT2 (Iowa)
Posts: 880
Posted:
At the next board meeting, vote for a new president. For everyone's sake, get someone who can control the meeting. In most bylaws, you don't have to wait until the next annual meeting.
AnnS12 (Wisconsin)
Posts: 67
Posted:
we had a situation where an owner was harrasing contractors.

We added the following to our rules and regulations

General Conduct

Board members and residents shall not engage in any abusive or harassing
behavior, either verbal, written or physical, or any form of intimidation or aggression directed at other members, residents, guests, or vendors.

Then we added the following to our fine schedule.
Abusive or Harassing behavior- either verbal, written or physical, or any form of intimidation or aggression directed at other members, residents, guests, or vendors.
First Violation- a fine of $100.00 and any expenses incurred and or actual damages
Second Violation a fine of $200.00 and any expenses incurred and or actual damages
Third and subsequent violations $400.00 and any expenses incurred and or actual damages.

Owner is now very quiet.
KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550
Posted:
We added sometnhing similar to our Rules & regs a few years ago.

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