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DanaW2 (Texas)
Posts: 16
Posted:
Last week our HOA had an electronic election for 3 places on our HOA's board. One individual was already on the board and was re-running. It was found out the HOA management company did not make the electronic election secret and the board members could actively see how each household was voting during the voting period. The individual re-running apparently contacted homeowners and advised them they needed to change their votes etc.

According to Texas law:

Sec. 209.00594. TABULATION OF AND ACCESS TO BALLOTS. (a) Notwithstanding any other provision of this chapter or any other law, a person who is a candidate in a property owners' association election or who is otherwise the subject of an association vote, or a person related to that person within the third degree by consanguinity or affinity, as determined under Chapter 573, Government Code, may not tabulate or otherwise be given access to the ballots cast in that election or vote except as provided by this section.

(b) A person other than a person described by Subsection (a) may tabulate votes in an association election or vote.

(b-1) A person who tabulates votes under Subsection (b) or who performs a recount under Section 209.0057(c) may not disclose to any other person how an individual voted.

(c) Notwithstanding any other provision of this chapter or any other law, only a person who tabulates votes under Subsection (b) or who performs a recount under Section 209.0057(c) may be given access to the ballots cast in the election or vote.

(d) This section may not be construed to affect a person's obligation to comply with a court order for the release of ballots or other voting records.

So this states that a person who is a candidate in the election "may not tabulate or otherwise be given access to the ballots cast in that election." The HOA manager claimed that the election was valid but only addressed the part where the individual was not tabulating votes but never addressed the part where he was given access to the ballots. So our neighborhoods question is, was the election valid? This individual won btw. Thanks.
SheliaH (Indiana)
Posts: 6,964
Posted:
How did you find out that this happened? Did you and your neighbors go to the board with your concerns? If so, what was the response (ultimately the board is responsible ensuring the integrity of the election).

If there's an indication the ballots weren't kept confidential, there may be grounds for a do-over, but first you need to see how this happened - and can prove it (you said the incumbent "apparently contacted homeowners" but how do you know, how many, etc,)

If it is not right do not do it; if it is not true do not say it. Marcus Aurelius
DanaW2 (Texas)
Posts: 16
Posted:
The incumbent admitted to it. Board members verified ballots cast could be viewed prior to the end of the election. The HOA manager was asked to consult with an attorney about this and claimed the election was valid and there was no manipulation.
SheliaH (Indiana)
Posts: 6,964
Posted:
Did you see anything in writing from this attorney saying why the election was valid? I suppose no one asked about keeping the ballots confidential BEFORE the election, did they? Electronic voting has its advantages but you still need to know how ballot confidentiality is maintained. It's one thing to count the ballots and make sure whoever casts it is eligible, but you do the second thing first and c w a it until all vites have b een cast before they're counted.

You and your neighbors will have to insist on another election with impartial people doing the counting. Get together with them and read your documents to see what's required for a special homeowners meeting. There should also be instructions in them about running an election- look at that section as well.

If it is not right do not do it; if it is not true do not say it. Marcus Aurelius
DanaW2 (Texas)
Posts: 16
Posted:
Thank you! There is absolutely nothing in writing from an attorney regarding why the election was valid.
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,062
Posted:
Dana,

There is nothing in the TX Business Organizational Code, applicable if your Association is incorporated (most are but check to be sure) that requires a secret ballot to vote for Directors.

There is nothing in the TX CONDOMINIUMS CREATED BEFORE ADOPTION OF UNIFORM CONDOMINIUM ACT that requires a secret ballot to vote for Directors.

There is nothing in the TX UNIFORM CONDOMINIUM ACT that requires a secret ballot to vote for Directors

Per the TEXAS RESIDENTIAL PROPERTY OWNERS PROTECTION ACT does not require a secret ballot to vote for Directors. In fact, the statute does require signed ballots on any issue voted on outside of a meeting. An argument can be made that the electronic voting was done outside of a meeting and requires signed ballots (showing who voted for whom). Per Sec. 209.0058 of that act:

(a) Except as provided by Subsection (d), a vote cast by a member of a property owners' association must be in writing and signed by the member if the vote is cast:
(1) outside of a meeting;
(2) in an election to fill a position on the board;
(3) on a proposed adoption or amendment of a dedicatory instrument;
(4) on a proposed increase in the amount of a regular assessment or the proposed adoption of a special assessment; or
(5) on the proposed removal of a board member.
(a-1) If a property owners' association elects to use a ballot for a vote on a matter other than a matter described by Subsection (a), the ballot must be:
(1) in writing and signed by the member; or
(2) cast by secret ballot in accordance with Subsection (d).
(b) Electronic votes cast under Section 209.00592 constitute written and signed ballots.

All of that said, once the voting was done, all Directors would have access to all Association records (as they would no longer be candidates).
However, as you pointed out, as candidates they should not have been given access to those records and they were.

Therefore, I guess the question becomes: How strongly do you feel about this and are you willing to go through the expense and time legal action would require to have that election tossed and a new election done (keeping in mind that the end results of who is on the board might not change)?

If you are willing to go expend that time, energy and expense I would suggest you contact an attorney to determine what the costs might be and your chances of winning.

If you are not willing to expend that time, energy and expense, I would encourage you to gather support to allow yourself to become elected to the board to make the changes necessary so this does not happen in the future.

At the very least, you can ask the board what policies and procedures will be put in place to make sure there is compliance with the law in the future.

Hope this helps,

Tim
KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550
Posted:
Why is thePM making these decisions instead of the Board?

Overall. Agree with Shelia

Good citation. Are you on the board , Dana?
M
TerriS6 (California)
Posts: 3,284
Posted:
And make the management company pay for the election(s).
DanaW2 (Texas)
Posts: 16
Posted:
I am on the board.
SheliaH (Indiana)
Posts: 6,964
Posted:
Ensuring the integrity of the election is the board's job, so this is their screw up - I might ask the property manager split the cost of a second election. Did tge manager talk to the association's attorney or their own? That may determine if you can get written documentation of the attorney's opinion because if comes down to who hired him. If the manager went to his/her attorney, you'll need to do what should have been done before electronic voting was made available- go to your own and discuss the situation and possible options.

In light of what Tim provided on Tennessee law (and you should still read your own documents), the board must decide if you let this stand or hold another election - if homeowners insist on another election, that's what you should do. You say there are 3 members and you're one of them - what does the third person have to say about this? If he or she agrees with you, you can outvote the incumbent.

If there's another election, use paper ballots and have people not related to any current or former board member count them in front of everyone at a homeowners meeting. If you still want to use electronic voting in the future, do your research, develop a policy on how it'll be handled and adopt it via board resolution during an open meeting.

If it is not right do not do it; if it is not true do not say it. Marcus Aurelius
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,062
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By SheliaH on 10/14/2024 8:12 AM

Ensuring the integrity of the election is the board's job, so this is their screw up - I might ask the property manager split the cost of a second election.

I agree it was the Boards responsibility to make sure that the law was complied with.

However, unless you know that candidates utilized that information to sway the vote one way or the other, is a second election really worth the cost?

If the vote count wasn't close, then a second election likely won't change the outcome.
A second election will cost the Association money. Perhaps, money they need elsewhere.

Therefore, if the outcome isn't likely to change, I would simply put policies and procedures in place to prevent this from happening in the future and move forward.

KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550
Posted:
Doesn't your HOA have an HOA attorney, Dana? Imo, the Board should vote to consult with them. The PM should have zero to do with this.
DeanJ
Posts: 1,786
Posted:
I have read the section of law. I fail to read where the ballots have to be secret. The board member could view the ballots, but he did not have access to the physical or electronic ballot to tamper with it. That’s why he had to request owners change the ballot. I do not believe the law was violated. Why an HOA would allow an owner to change a ballot once cast is a bit baffling.
DanaW2 (Texas)
Posts: 16
Posted:
Thank you for the feedback. We were trying to understand the interpretation of the section quoted.
TerriS6 (California)
Posts: 3,284
Posted:
DanaW2, as you well explained, the election was not valid. Now the question is: what does the law and your governing documents says about challenging the election and hiw long do you have to challenge it?
TerriS6 (California)
Posts: 3,284
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By DeanJ on 10/14/2024 2:22 PM
I have read the section of law. I fail to read where the ballots have to be secret. The board member could view the ballots, but he did not have access to the physical or electronic ballot to tamper with it. That’s why he had to request owners change the ballot. I do not believe the law was violated. Why an HOA would allow an owner to change a ballot once cast is a bit baffling.

Seeing electronic ballots is having access to electronic ballots. Those forbidden by this law from having access to electronic ballots means thise ballots were supposed to be secret. The election is invalid.
DeanJ
Posts: 1,786
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By TerriS6 on 10/15/2024 5:29 AM
Posted By DeanJ on 10/14/2024 2:22 PM
I have read the section of law. I fail to read where the ballots have to be secret. The board member could view the ballots, but he did not have access to the physical or electronic ballot to tamper with it. That’s why he had to request owners change the ballot. I do not believe the law was violated. Why an HOA would allow an owner to change a ballot once cast is a bit baffling.


Seeing electronic ballots is having access to electronic ballots. Those forbidden by this law from having access to electronic ballots means thise ballots were supposed to be secret. The election is invalid.

a person who is a candidate in a property owners' association election or who is otherwise the subject of an association vote, or a person related to that person within the third degree by consanguinity or affinity, as determined under Chapter 573, Government Code, may not tabulate or otherwise be given access to the ballots cast in that election or vote except as provided by this section.

Obviously there are people who may view the ballots, so they are not secret. Given access mean to physically handle, manipulate or count the ballot. Viewing the ballots does not violate this section.

TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,062
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By TerriS6 on 10/15/2024 5:29 AM
Those forbidden by this law from having access to electronic ballots means thise ballots were supposed to be secret.

Partially true.

TX law requires a signature on the electronic ballot for the ballot to be valid. Hence, the ballot itself is not secret.

Once a candidate becomes a Director, they would have access to this info, as it would be part of the Associations records for the general membership meeting.

DeanJ
Posts: 1,786
Posted:
I suspect the board member did not have access to a spread sheet vs the electronic ballot.
DeanJ
Posts: 1,786
Posted:
Correction.
I suspect the board member had access to a spread sheet vs access where he could change an electronic ballot.
TerriS6 (California)
Posts: 3,284
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By TimB4 on 10/15/2024 10:25 AM
Posted By TerriS6 on 10/15/2024 5:29 AM
Those forbidden by this law from having access to electronic ballots means thise ballots were supposed to be secret.


Partially true.

TX law requires a signature on the electronic ballot for the ballot to be valid. Hence, the ballot itself is not secret.

Once a candidate becomes a Director, they would have access to this info, as it would be part of the Associations records for the general membership meeting.


Thus the superiority of paper ballots and the two envelope system that California just rejected.
KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550
Posted:
Dana wrote: "....the board members could actively see how each household was voting during the voting period. The individual re-running apparently contacted homeowners and advised them they needed to change their votes etc." Does anyone really think that the incumbents r behavior was OK?

I do not agree that "given access" means physically having it. I agree that read something is also access.

Need an election doomer if Dana et al know how to do it.
.
KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550
Posted:
Sorry "do-over."
DeanJ
Posts: 1,786
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By TerriS6 on 10/15/2024 3:53 PM
Posted By TimB4 on 10/15/2024 10:25 AM
Posted By TerriS6 on 10/15/2024 5:29 AM
Those forbidden by this law from having access to electronic ballots means thise ballots were supposed to be secret.


Partially true.

TX law requires a signature on the electronic ballot for the ballot to be valid. Hence, the ballot itself is not secret.

Once a candidate becomes a Director, they would have access to this info, as it would be part of the Associations records for the general membership meeting.



Thus the superiority of paper ballots and the two envelope system that California just rejected.

Good to see there are still some environmentalists in CA. LOL.
DanaW2 (Texas)
Posts: 16
Posted:
The PM will not allow me to speak with the attorney or see the email exchanged between them.....even though we are paying for the attorney.
CathyA3 (Ohio)
Posts: 6,299
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By DanaW2 on 10/16/2024 9:16 AM
The PM will not allow me to speak with the attorney or see the email exchanged between them.....even though we are paying for the attorney.

If you're talking about the association's attorney and you are not on the board, then the PM is correct since individual homeowners are not the attorney's clients. The association is the client.
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,062
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By DanaW2 on 10/16/2024 9:16 AM
The PM will not allow me to speak with the attorney or see the email exchanged between them.....even though we are paying for the attorney.

The PM works for the Board.

If you have board approval to speak to the attorney, then do so. You shouldn't have to go through the PM to do that.

If you are trying to do this without board approval, that's a different thing.

SheliaH (Indiana)
Posts: 6,964
Posted:
Have you discussed this with your board colleagues? You said you were on the board, but attorneys cost money, so consulting one should be a group decision. I can understand why the incumbent wouldn't want an opposing opinion getting out if it puts his election at risk, but there are three of you and you still haven't said how he or she views all of this.

Perhaps both of them want to move on, and as long as it's two against one, you're not going to win this battle, at least not this way. If you really feel strongly about an election do over, you'll have to get more homeowners to push for it. That may mean you'll need to give up your seat, otherwise people may accuse you of bias against the newbie and/or you're mad you're not getting your way, and no 9ne will listen.

Tim asked earlier what you're willing to do to change this or at least get a straight answer about board candidates having access to the ballots. Change isn't easy nor does it happen overnight, and sometimes the person pushing for the change has to deal with pushback that can get ugly. So what are you going to do and how far are you willing to go?

If it is not right do not do it; if it is not true do not say it. Marcus Aurelius
DeanJ
Posts: 1,786
Posted:
Hold the bus. The PM doesn’t have the authority to stop you from doing anything.
TerriS6 (California)
Posts: 3,284
Posted:
The electronic ballots ARE required to be secret. See Sec 209.00594 subsection (c).
TerriS6 (California)
Posts: 3,284
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By DanaW2 on 10/16/2024 9:16 AM
The PM will not allow me to speak with the attorney or see the email exchanged between them.....even though we are paying for the attorney.

From everything I've read so far, any member could challenge this election in small claims court. Ask the judge to void the election based on law, and order a new election to occur.

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