It's The People Stuff that is the Killer

hi,

Cathy and I were posting about reserves and how people react to it. It was a following the same lines that Tim is dealing with in a recent thread.

This discussion forum has taken me to school on a lot of topics. Mixed in is the legal and business perspective that HOA/Condo living brings about.

We get posts on specific topics and everyone rolls up their sleeves and digs in and give enormous amounts of quantity and quality of time in pulling up the correct answers and advice. Tim's recent post gave us a lot of qualitative data and that allows us a better perspective on his item.

What we are really missing is the people stuff. An engineer once said I can tell you why it broke, What are different solutions to fix it, how much will these solutions will cost and that is the easy part. It's the people part that is the killer. He is right.

We are thrown into law, business, facility management and host of other topics but how do we manage the people stuff.

I don't think it's just about money topics people get bent out of shape. I see everyone getting fired up over the stupidest things.

We have most folks who do not care and do not want to be bothered and want to continue living their lives with ZERO change. We have general apathy and few folks who are even qualified to wear different hats on the board. All these members we basically inherited almost like they are family but worse we can't disown them and we have to see them.

The corporate business structure in my opinion is slowly cracking in the new age we are living in. Also I think the HOA/condo structure is left a lot to be desired and is cracking too. I have successfully pointed out the current funding (at my assn) we are slowly going belly up and was able to get a dues increase with added services. Success but at what price. It was a mental hangover for me. It should not be like this.

When we are on this discussion board even though we are different we are also the same. All of us know how to read, investigate, try to understand legal aspects and governance. We generally are probably good bookkeepers and are CONSCIENTIOUS.
,
Everyone in our assns ARE NOT LIKE US. Some are audio learners and some are kinetic learners. They do not know how to balance a checkbook and live paycheck to paycheck. Legal contracts, bookeeping, laws, finance etc is alien speech to them. We need to do a better job in getting information to them. the problem is we will deliver in how we like our information not in THEIR way of getting info.

I am looking to change things up in my assn. I going to assign roles but non-traditional. Cathy gave me an idea of roles in micro condo situation. This is based on what I observed as each person strength. This is not what they do as a living. I had three lawyers in my building and they all stunk for living in the condo. Go figure. The way people learn things is going to be the trickiest part. People learn differently and they have different time frames. Also the condo stuff makes them throw up. We somehow need to get info to these folks so they can digest. Topics include special assessments, reserves, the budget. I am not going to even add all the rules etc. When it comes down to it it's like a marriage its all about communicating.

Some of you have achieved this and post what worked for you. I don't want to know your method. What I want to know is how and why you came up with that method. How did it match to the people you were dealing with in that situation. It's story time for all of you. Cathy I apologize if this is not what you were thinking of. If it's not then open another thread on what you were thinking of.

Well said.

Along these lines, we needed some retention pond work done. We contacted several companies and I was to meet with them and explain our situation. Shortly after talking with one of the contractors he realized I was representing an HOA. He thanked me but said I do not do business with HOA's. I asked why. He said they are looking to do jobs on the cheap. They have BOD Members that do not understand the nature/requirements of the job. If the BOD changes, we are back at step one. They are slow payers.

He basically said thanks, but no thanks. I admired his reply. I was how I ran my business.

Gregory said "When it comes down to it it's like a marriage its all about communicating."

Yes, it is. Homeowners relinquish freedom when they join an HOA, including oftentimes the freedom to maintain their homes on their own schedule and budget. Many boards mistakenly think it's safe to avoid communications with homeowners. The more information homeowners have, the more likely they will cooperate/accept assessment increases. Boards forget that the association belongs to the members. Because my board refused to communicate with me, I had to sue them 5 times. They spent a small fortune defending their lawless actions and lost all 5 claims. All avoidable had they communicated.

This is not always true.

I've met many hard working people that are living pay check to pay check. Not by choice. There are a lot of economic factors that come into play that are simply out of a persons control.

I even recall when I was living pay check to pay check. Not because I wanted to (and I had 3 jobs at that time). I knew that if I continued to work hard at the same company I would obtain pay raises and I was looking at the long term benefits (which has paid off for me now that I'm in retirement).

There are a surprising number of people who earn hefty salaries who are also living paycheck to paycheck. They're living beyond their means, whatever their means are.

For the working poor, it's because their jobs don't pay enough for anyone to meet even the basic necessities, so they can't put aside enough to handle unexpected expenses.

For those who fit the definition of upper middle class, it's because they want more than they can afford. Or they've been hit by something like an illness and they accumulate more debt than they can handle.

We hear stories of millionaires who end up bankrupt. Sports players can end up this way, because they suddenly get paid millions but nobody has taught them how to manage that much money. It's not real to them. Or their agent/manager steals from them. And lottery winners are notorious for blowing through all of their winnings, rather than putting aside enough money to pay for their (reasonable) expenses for the rest of their lives.

I think this is fundamentally a lack of understanding of how numbers work, and a lot of people fall into this category. Put dollar signs on the numbers, and too many people engage in magical thinking. And it isn't just the homeowners - it's the lawmakers and people who govern us as well.

One of my big criticisms of the whole community association model is that it emulates living paycheck to paycheck. Aside from the reserves, we're often not allowed to set aside money for a rainy day. Some state laws even require boards to return the surplus to the membership at the end of the year. This dynamic is what traps the working poor in poverty. An unexpected expense is a disaster. So they resort to credit if they can get it, or to payday lenders. In an HOA, we have to resort to special assessments - or else to neglect some planned spending that can be kicked down the road. The system is designed to fail. And then everybody is shocked when it does.

It's "people stuff" on a grand scale.

My newsletter was printed and dropped door to door.

The Association letter was printed and dropped door to door.

You need to know your demographics. At that time, the owners were baby boomers or older who were used to reading a paper. Emails would typically be discarded without reading attachments. Personally, there are very few websites I actually look at on a regular basis. Print and delivery reached more people and most, I found out, would actually read a one or two page newsletter (or at least browse the headlines).

Good suggestion on printed material as it sticks around and can be read several times and thoughts generated. Email typically get trashed as soon as read thus soon forgotten.

You have to educate people of the need in a simple, easy steps forward method before going for the ask $$$$$.

I find people pay attention when in is going to hit them in the pocketbook such as value of their property dropping if not kept in good shape especially visible things such as landscaping, carpeting, common use furniture, etc.

Hey All,

Thanks for responding.

Dean and everyone I agree people's duration of stay dictates the spending habits and their willingness to pay for the reserves. I had a person complain the dues were way too low. When the question of reserves came up they did not want any. Why? They made a lifestyle change and decided to move. Ditch and run instead of pitch in and do.

Most of people think of homes and what breaks they will fix or not to fix. The quality of the upkeep shows up at the time of the sale of the home. The real return on investment shows up. Then we are really dealing with is how our membership rolls. If everyone is dumb and happy then everything is OK. The real problems are kicked down the road for the "other" folks. The ones who care we have to expend too much of our freaking time on what really matters to move the masses.

The reason why I didn't respond earlier was that I completed a meeting and for the first time after 20+ years we are going to start reserves at the "Little Shop of Horrors". It took three years. I have a mental hangover.

I want to expand on Tim's newsletter. He was successful in "socializing" the issues and training folks. The newsletter was the instrument of his success. (Former fencer over here Tim ) In another thread someone suggested to me to get the reserve company to make a video call to talk to folks. So the shift goes to the company and not me. What I did was in the annual financial statement I wrote about the NJ law stating about reserves. Then midsummer I brought this up and had this put on the agenda. Then I sent out links for webinars on the topic. Quotes went out and lot of info. What happened people did not read anything. How did it pass? One unit actually did read and also the state law helped. I think it's how the condo people roll that things work or not.

Now to Sheila's item on passive aggressive. What really that is touching upon do we have a handle on our personality and these other people's personality. I spent some time in the midwest and I became very polite. The experience changed me. However when you have a real rogue character I think politeness doe not help. I think I might have to pull old school Jersey on them.

Person A says hi to everyone gets elected to the board. Once a year they cook up chili and have a party. Talks to everyone and nothing gets done.Those folks are really good at what they do. Talk and connect with people and be able to bullisht.I have a character who speaks out of their rear and they say wrong things about money and building maintenance. I go overboard in providing correct information. It does not matter when you can't fix stupid. Other stupid people like to be with other stupid people and now you have a stupid community you are stuck in. I think it's the turnover of the people that can only really change things around.

What I really wanted to know how did you do that old fashion political in the mud wrestling match with people. Terri your success was small claims court. Any reason why you stuck it out at your place. I would have packed it up and left after the third case.? Tim I am hearing you spread out info via newsletter and had success in training folks. Did anyone have success with going ballistic and give the old fashion family meeting discussion? Cathy when the bank was charging the condo fines when we did not have money in the bank I got it done by having graphical charts showing them the money issue of having flat fees for the last five years. That worked but too much energy. Thinking for others is tough when you have delinquent students. These folks and some of them very educated do not get it. I finished a contract signing for a property and one member of the team said they have a lot of experience with contracts. They were at a very high position in the corporate world. They made a boiler plate contract signing into a two hour ordeal. They did not understand concepts and had mental blocks. I had an engineer who I was explaining construction projects to and it was if i was speaking another language to them. I think a lot of "getting it" is skillset based. Cathy I think you mentioned you have real estate realtor experience with contracts. But I don't think it's your real estate experience but your ability to understand contracts. I have a real estate agent in the building and contracts is a big mystery to them.

The real issue is the pain in the rear person. How do you handle that person or persons? How do you Wrestle the Pig?

All of you are the same that you are change leaders! I don't know if you realize it. It's easier when you have like minded folks in the assn.

Why did I stick it out? I love my home. I hate crooks. I hate embezzlers. I hate elder abuse. I’ve made the association better in spite of the board.

Congrats, terri! Do you get along with th other two directors?

hi Terri you are courageous.

We were making a decision to kick it or stick it. I think we made an ok decision what was best for our family and we stuck it out. It's interesting that no matter how bad it is for some reason people will move or not move but not because of the condo drama but what is good for the personal need. On another discussion board same thing came out. Person going through hell but decided to stick it out.

It would be ludicrous for me to move just because someone else is hurting my neighbors. All I can do is try to help.

Greg,

There was no going postal on anyone.

What started my issue was I was being told a screen door that was on my home when I purchased it, was properly maintained and still functional had to be replaced.
With help from this site (way back then) I discovered applicable laws that supported my claim and met with the board.
The board rejected everything I told them.
Concerned that the board was doing this to others as well, I started the newsletter.

3 years later, I discovered the whole issue was due to one individual who was on the board, had served on the board for years and nobody wanted to confront them (including the attorney who was on the board at the time). That person chose not to run and the next day I received a letter saying my door issue was fine the way it was. So it was the personal opinion, instead of complying with the law and governing documents, that caused the whole issue and had me become knowledgeable and involved in HOAs.

That is a concern when nobody steps up to volunteer. If others are not willing to serve, then they get those who are willing. If they stay in place long enough, it's human nature to think you have learned everything about the job and quit keeping up with changes. I suspect that this is what happened to me in my last association. That one individual thought they knew all that was needed to know and wasn't willing to listen to a different point of view.

Ditto.