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GregoryT1
Posts: 315
Posted:
Hi,

I just wanted feedback from small (2 units to 10 unit) condos that are self managed. I want to know your dynamics in your setup according to how you govern. Do you have an elected board? How do you reach decisions (voting or consensus) etc. Frequency of meetings. If you do vote is it proportional or not. How much conforming to the docs and laws that you do.

The dynamics of micro condos are so bizarre that I needed to touch base with others who are in the same boat.

My building
Self managed
3 units
No board
Meet infrequently and meeting based on topic.
Voting by unit.

This thread is for starting the conversation amongst the micro condos.

Thanks.
SheliaH (Indiana)
Posts: 6,964
Posted:
I dont live in one, but I would think dynamics would be few and far between. Then again, there is or was a poster named Liz who had a devil of a time with her neighbors. She was in a 4 unit condo and the others froze her out of everything.

She wanted the group to follow the documents (which makes sense) and they didn't. If what she said was correct, these folks were doing stuff that a judge would find it easy to overturn. Why they'd take that risk to their wallets, I'll never know.

I also wonder why anyone wastes time with building condos under 15 units - just build an apartment building and skip the confusion.

Anyway, that's the heart of the problem - the freeze outs and/or one person who wants his/her way all the damned time. Running a tiny condo shouldn't be complicated - everyone gets one vote and should have responsibility for one area (e.g. prepare the budget), meet at least once a quarter and rules should be relatively simple because you share common walls. Put another way, learn to share and not be an asshat.

That could mean things like:

Control the noise - those yapping dogs might be less of a problem if the owner would walk it regularly. If he/she doesn't know how to take care of one, ask the humane society if it offers classes or watch Cesar Milan on national geographic or animal planet

No putting anything on the roof (satellite TV is becoming rare anyway, unless you live in a rural area where that infrastructure doesn't exist). If you insist, there should be designated areas where they can go (the satellite company should be happy to help if it wants the business. )

Certain plants may need to be prohibited because they're invasive and can spread easily

No parking on the grass and be mindful of large vehicles that can create blind spots

Exterior changes should maintain the original look and design of the building - yes, that can be done while avoiding a cookie cutter look

If it is not right do not do it; if it is not true do not say it. Marcus Aurelius
CathyA3 (Ohio)
Posts: 6,299
Posted:
In the late 80s I bought a condo in a very small community. It was the developer's first go at these things and the city's first condominiums. On top of it, all of the owners in my community were first-time buyers. We didn't know what we were doing, and a lot of our actions were driven by that. What saved us was owning new, good-quality construction, and we buyers were responsible and wanted to do things right.

In addition, state law at the time was primitive compared to what it is today. People got themselves into trouble, and lessons were learned the hard way. State lawmakers got tired of listening to the tales of woe from their constituents and made changes.

And there was no internet back then. Learning what we needed to know was not as easy as it is today.

That said:

* Minutes? What minutes? Reserves? What reserves?

* We had a two-person board, and I was the secretary-treasurer. By definition, we had to operate by consensus. I also think that in a tiny community, that's the only way to go.

* Aside from the formal meeting turning over control to the owners, our meetings were as-needed and often spontaneous. I don't remember whether our bylaws required meetings on any particular schedule.

* We elected new board members when somebody wanted to step down. Given that nobody else wanted to serve, no one complained about the lack of formal elections. We had no idea about an annual meeting aside from a vague notion that it would be a good idea to get everybody together periodically and discuss what was going on. So we did. We met on decks and in basements.

* What we did right: accurate and complete financial records and some version of an "annual report".

I cringe when I look back at how little we knew. What I've learned since then:

* Tiny condo communities amplify everything, good and bad.

* Many states' laws provide exemptions from some requirements for condo communities below a certain size. Be sure to check yours.

* I strongly prefer operating by consensus in any case. But in a tiny community where everyone literally lives on top of each other, it's the smart way to go unless you have one guy who opposes everything on principle. In a larger community, that sort of person is a minor annoyance. In a two-unit condo (yes, they exist), it can be fatal.

* In a tiny community, I'd be tempted to give everyone a formal role. You're more likely to get cooperation when everyone has a stake in making things work. (Yes, even Mr. Opposes Everything if you can choose the role wisely.) And there's the pragmatic reason that one or two people shouldn't be doing all the heavy lifting while someone else sits back and enjoys the benefits of others' labor. This happens in every community association and can cause resentment, which is at least diluted in large associations.

* It's important to keep complete records of decisions and actions, even if they're not in formal minutes. You don't want to rely on people's memories.

* Financial records should be as accurate and complete as those in any other condo community. Condos are essentially shared ownership and expense, and money is a reliable source of conflict. If no one in the community has the necessary skills, that's one job I recommend hiring a professional for.

* Fortunately most records are now kept electronically, so you won't have to worry about boxes of paper in somebody's garage. It's also much easier to make electronic records available to everyone.

* The most easily-resolved disputes are the ones that don't happen in the first place. Consensus and transparency.
GregoryT1
Posts: 315
Posted:
Thanks Sheila and Cathy for getting back to me on this tiny condo. My city is full of them.

I think what Liz was dealing with is actually what happens in a big condo also. Small group wants the board to follow the docs. What a novel idea. However you touch a nerve on the one person who wants their way. Their way is not the condo doc way. Which is connected to Cathy statement and the amplification of everything. Then smaller the building it gets to be too much.

How to mute the noise of one individual? Any thoughts?

Accounting, record keeping, routine inspections, financial transparency is in the check columns. We do it well.
What we are dealing with is governance. The problem I am seeing is that consensus is good but the issue is that the condo is not a political entity but a political-business entity. In the small condo we do have disparate ownership.

This link is for others and posterity.
https://healthandlearning.org/wp-content/uploads/2017/04/Decision-Making-Models-Voting-versus-Consensus.pdf

So the setup is the following. President and the secretary/treasurer those two roles are appointed by the directors. Those directors two are voted annually by the assn members. We don’t do elections. These roles do not exist. There is a person who handles this. Non elected.

Cathy I think assigning roles based on someone’s skill set idea is FANTASTIC. That is on my radar. I will now look at what folks are good at and it might be non-traditional roles.

At this time in myself looking at the by-laws it seems to me what we are doing is special meetings of the assn and voting by one vote one unit. We are making the meetings more professional and keeping the topic to one topic at a time.

The voting is unit based currently. We do have the bigger owner paying the bigger portion. By legal right that unit can state their percentage and inform others their business right. (Proportional voting in the bylaws and this discussion board helped me to figure it out0 If we do voting by straight unit count bigger unit(s) might be squeezed out of their business portion. I think the control on the smaller units and the bigger unit if they get squeezed out is that there has to be strong business fundamental behind a decision following the condo docs. A bad business decision is not good but any unit can stand up in court in case of a bad decision made in bad faith. That is against business rules in the state. I was supportive of a consensus decision making but the one fly in the ointment is the business ownership aspect of the condo. I agree the consensus especially the simple method we can flush out the reasons and potentially the solutions. The one problem is that folks do PLAY games and do not reveal the real reasons behind the yes, no and their reservations. This then gets into assumptions and bad solutions.

Here is an idea. Consensus in the discovery phase of a proposal unless it is about condo rules or state law. Straight voting once decision needs to be made with at times proportional voting needing to happen. Always the correct decision has to be in accord with the docs and state law. I greatly appreciate your viewpoints. It is a bizarre hybrid approach but a small condo needs out of the box thinking to make it work. Trust me that Cathy and I have lived this craziness!
JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265
Posted:
In any size condo there are two methods of voting. One vote per unit, regardless of unit size, being the most common. The secondary method is the votes are proportionately based on the unit size. Ones doc's should spell this out.
CathyA3 (Ohio)
Posts: 6,299
Posted:
I agree about the need to document the actual vote. Our 3-person board talks things out thoroughly - and by the time we're done, we're on the same page. The unanimous vote is a formality that is recorded in the minutes.

Another note: if we've talked it out and we're still not in agreement, it may be worth tabling a non-urgent issue until more research can be done. If someone disagrees with me, I consider the possibility that they know something that I don't - and if I knew about whatever it is, I may change my mind.

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