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PeggyW3 (Michigan)
Posts: 73
Posted:
Our HOA Association COVERS CHIMNEYS AND FLUES. I live in Michigan, what do the Michigan HOA laws say about this topic? I think chimney flues have been covered in the past, but am wondering if that still applies. I read where flues were being called appliances and not covered.

Lou
SheliaH (Indiana)
Posts: 6,964
Posted:
What do your documents say? That's where you start - state law doesn't usually dictate what HOAs should and shouldn't cover.

If it is not right do not do it; if it is not true do not say it. Marcus Aurelius
LetA (Nevada)
Posts: 2,679
Posted:
Are your fireplaces gas log or wood burning? Gas logs typically do not need a chimney sweep.
Your Governing documents would state who is responsible for what.
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059
Posted:
You stated that your association covers chimneys and flues.
Then you ask the question that you think flues were covered in the past.

As others have suggested, read all of your governing documents as they should specify what is and is not covered.

Personally, I've never heard of HOAs covering chimneys and flues. I have heard of COAs (condominiums) doing so.
Are you in an HOA or a COA?

Regarding statutes, see:

MI statutes

MI condominium act

MI NONPROFIT CORPORATION ACT

Michigan HOA Laws and Regulations - 2024 Guide

Hope this helps.
DeanJ
Posts: 1,786
Posted:
I doubt state law addresses fire places.
CathyA3 (Ohio)
Posts: 6,299
Posted:
The fireplaces in my condo community are either electric or direct vent gas. In both cases these items are unit owner responsibility (venting and plumbing lines that serve a single unit are defined to be part of the unit, even if these lines are within the common elements). Condos are so much fun...

As others noted, it's very unlikely state law has anything to say about this: too much variety in communities and building structures. Look in your CC&Rs to see how they define the parts of the common elements and the parts of individual homes. Then check the section that addresses association responsibilities and owner responsibilities. Don't rely on memory. It's unreliable - and given how confusing the structures of homes can be, it's entirely possible that previous boards got it wrong.
GregoryT1
Posts: 315
Posted:
hi we have non-vented gas fireplaces. These fireplaces are not mentioned in the condo docs and also not in the state condo laws. Court decision if it is not mentioned and it's in the specific unit space its owner responsibility. I view the fireplace as an appliance like a fridge and it's my responsibility. The gas line coming out of the wall is also my responsibility. The gas line in the wall I will have to look further into but it could be my responsibility also since it serves my unit only. To help with the question for the furnaces and boilers that are vented and are specific to a unit who does people think the vent piping is the condo or the unit owner? Just thinking aloud over here.

However everyone else's answer that the docs need to be looked at I agree with.
CathyA3 (Ohio)
Posts: 6,299
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By GregoryT1 on 09/09/2024 2:46 PM
hi we have non-vented gas fireplaces. These fireplaces are not mentioned in the condo docs and also not in the state condo laws. Court decision if it is not mentioned and it's in the specific unit space its owner responsibility. I view the fireplace as an appliance like a fridge and it's my responsibility. The gas line coming out of the wall is also my responsibility. The gas line in the wall I will have to look further into but it could be my responsibility also since it serves my unit only. To help with the question for the furnaces and boilers that are vented and are specific to a unit who does people think the vent piping is the condo or the unit owner? Just thinking aloud over here.

However everyone else's answer that the docs need to be looked at I agree with.

Non-vented gas fireplaces are a different sort of beast because of the lack of venting. The gas line usually becomes owner responsibility at the point where it branches off from the main line serving multiple units. But again, you have to look at the exact wording of your community's CC&Rs - it's always possible that a community defines these things differently due to the structure of the buildings.

These unvented units are also banned in a number of areas because of safety and other issues, and I know of some fireplace dealers that refuse to sell them even in areas where such sales are legal. This could be why they're not addressed in CC&Rs at all. I'm actually surprised that I haven't seen any restrictions in condo or townhouse CC&Rs that ban them - I would think that insurers would have concerns.

I can see why something like a brick chimney could be the responsibility of the association, though. It may depend on whether the chimney is functional (for a wood burning fireplace) or for looks only. But we can't generalize since this will depend on the characteristics of individual communities. (Read the CC&Rs, in other words.)

MarshallT (New York)
Posts: 414
Posted:
As others have said, start with your governing documents. State law definitely would not address this. My guess is that these would be the owner's responsibility. Is it possible that the responsibility has been passed from the association to individual owners?
CathyA3 (Ohio)
Posts: 6,299
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By MarshallT on 09/11/2024 7:16 AM
As others have said, start with your governing documents. State law definitely would not address this. My guess is that these would be the owner's responsibility. Is it possible that the responsibility has been passed from the association to individual owners?

There would have to be something in the CC&Rs that allow for this. CC&Rs for attached homes generally define "unit", "common elements", and "limited/exclusive use common elements". They also specify who is responsible for maintaining the items in each category. The limited common elements can go either way. In my community they are owner responsibility, but in other communities the association will maintain them.

If the CC&Rs don't explicitly give the association discretion over who pays for what, then an amendment would be required to change things. This would require approval from a majority of the membership (often a super-majority of 67% or 75%). And then the approved amendment needs to be recorded with the county in order for it to take effect. Amendment efforts can take a year or more from start to finish.
DawnL6 (South Carolina)
Posts: 226
Posted:
They put on ours about 3 or 4 years ago,as the owners with fireplaces,could not use anymore,and a $1,000 fine if owner did,but am expected to pay for other buildings repairs,and reconstruction.
PeggyW3 (Michigan)
Posts: 73
Posted:
Thank you all for responding: I was not clear with my question. Our Bylaws say the "chimney" is covered by the Association. So for years we have been covering the flue which in now attached to the fire box etc. I am arguing with the other directors that we should just be covering the "Chimney" which is the outside covering (like our siding that we cover) of the tubes that carry the smoke out of the "chimney." We have spent thousands on these flues and the documents do not say flues anywhere but in our matrix that is not a legal document.

What do you all think now??? Thanks so much!
GregoryT1
Posts: 315
Posted:
Thanks Tim for the articles! On a different property I was at the fireplace had two flues. One for the wood burning fireplace and the other was a utility flue for the furnace. I viewed the chimney as the whole entity. Both flues, firebox, cap and exterior. The tricky part is who is responsible for the annual cleaning if needed of the chimney ie the chimney sweep coming in and cleaning.

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