Restrecting home owners participation

Our bylaws in New Jersey includes the following provision.
At each open meeting of the Board the participation of lot owners in the proceedings or the provision of public comment session shall be at the discretion of the board of trustees.
Our BOT now conducts one workshop meeting a month providing notice on the clubhouse bulletin board and on the website (you have to dig for it)
Homeowners can only observe. No agenda is included with the notice.
The second meeting is an open meeting announced via emails with an agenda Home owner participation is limited to public discussion after the Board already votes and completes their business.

1- is an agenda required to be included with the work shop meeting notice
2-My understanding of NJ law is the meetings should be conducted ensuring that all members have the opportunity to participate in the association's governance.
3- If we can only speak after the fact or not at all how where is the opportunity for governance.

Allowing owners to speak at any time abut any issue makes for a free for all. When owners can speak and for how long must be controlled.

That's the problem- board meetings are supposed to be business meetings, not a town hall meeting. Town hall meetings are where people can make suggestions, ask questions and offer comments on certain issues. The board meeting is where board members discuss association issues and make decisions by making motions to do something.

Some of those decisions are time sensitive, so you can't be distracted with homeowners jumping in with questions or comments. As you've probably seen, some people won't shut up, yap about something not be related to the agenda item being discussed, and then you wind up being there half the night, but nothing gets done.

You may be right in that your board rewlly wants to snuff out 8wner comments, but it may also be trying to bring some order to the meetings. Maybe some people are upset that they can't speak whenever they want. If you're one of those people, you can always review old conversations on this website about residents forums (starting with this one) consider what might work best in your community, and suggest them to the board for consideration. If they're adopted, you and 6our neighbors will know what to expect the next time you attend a meeting. Remember, nothing is stopping you from sending a letter to the board and expressing yourself.

If you're still unhappy,, you can always run for a spot in the board and if elected, suggest different protocols to your colleagues. As long as you remember the difference between board meeting vs. special meeting vs. annual meeting, you'll be OK.

John

I believe the "rule" was not to limit home owner participation but to control it so it does not become free for all. I say owner participation is important but as I say when and how much has to be controlled.

Absent law to the contrary, I would not open any board meeting to the homeowners.

The HOA does not belong to the board. The HOA belongs to the homeowners.

Wow. I hope you're not a board member.

Yes, I am a board member and in a state where the legislature believes an HOA board can operate without sunshine laws. The states that require this silliness are a small minority.

Dean, I'm enjoying your increasing contributions' content. BUT, Pease DO show us how many states do have an "open meeting Act," like Calif; Fl. Ariz.' VA, IL, Texas. Now Im not sure about all of these.

In my state and in many, owners may ONLY contribute during "Open forum," which can include rules by the board like only one topic at a time, limit to 2 minutes, etc.

I think in AZ & maybe now FL, ownrs may contribute to every agenda item, when the board discusses it.

I agree and that arrogance is yours.

Unlike a corporate board, your HOA board is not compensated or your employees. They should be totally free to set meetings that all the board can attend and to change meeting dates and/or times with no notice to facilitate the business and personal obligations of the board members. The Board’s participation is required, your participation isn’t.

The board should also be free to discuss all issues that may require the boards attention at the time of a meeting without the restriction of an agenda to the homeowners, That is called efficiency and allows your board members to spend less volunteer hours. In Ohio, board member vote by email on issues is allowed if the vote is unanimous.

I believe you have little respect for your board’s time and don’t care if you make their service more complicated. This, in part, is why many HOAs struggle to find board members. There are many owners who would make really good board members and make great decisions. Many will not serve when they have needless hours removed from their life or withstand adversity that occurs at open board meetings. Being able to withstand a verbal assault and go home and feel good about your day should not be a board member qualification.

It depends on your state laws. A quoum of an HOA board may NOT b meet in perrson to discuss or deliberate HOA biz EXCEPT* in an open meeting in MANY states. and, in. most, only items on the agenda may be discusssed & decided. And a xx- hour agenda must noticed must be noted for owners to read.

I've been attending these every month of 17 years including the 14 I was a director. We have never had the MaDMax scenario that Dean imagines occurs. We HAVE had 2 Boards that tried tohidz some decions and who were disgustingly rude to Owners &,in some cases to each other.they were vote off the Board,

Dean's Ohio can shut owners out and this always pleases sneaky dictators.

hi,

The topic did not interest me and was not following it until now. The main item it's NJ. So now I am interested.

Dean stated the following.

"For NJ - HOA board meetings typically consist of two parts: an open session and a closed session. HOA members are welcome to participate in the open session to join public discussions and engage with the board. The closed session, also referred to as an executive session, is restricted to HOA board members only. These meetings may occur before or after the public board meetings, and the presence of the HOA manager may be intermittent.
The HOA board is not obligated to provide invitations to all individuals for these occasions. Sensitive topics are often discussed in closed sessions. These topics may include outstanding debts, tenant disputes and legal matters. The potential breach of confidentiality arising from these talks might pose difficulties due to the sensitive nature of the topics."

The government meetings that I attended in NJ follow the above framework. Ideally the condo board meeting should follow that. At least at the open session the board should be discussing and the members can observe. Allow the members to speak open in a controlled "public" portion with time limits.

Regardless of anyone's opinion on anything I do think we all as our posters should abide the posting rules

"This is a positive place for community association leaders to share ideas and learn. This forum is for community association Boards, Committees, Volunteers & HOA Professionals to discuss topics concerning their association duties.

Topics from individual homeowners, who are not acting as association volunteers, may be addressed if the person has come here to learn in a positive way.

We have only a few other rules:

(1) Post any relevant topic you like, but please keep it clean, helpful, positive and friendly."

In the past some discussion threads were not professional. I find that personal attacks were not productive for this site. HOWEVER who is at fault the people who are participating OR the silent ones who do not call out when behavior is not appropriate.

I truly feel it is the latter. This discussion thread could continue but I am one not going to tolerate any negativity.

I agree Kerry.

Hey JohnA we would need the NJ State law (Condo or PREFDA) section where the homeowners are part of the governance.

I looked at my condo docs I can see where the homeowners are part of the governance due to voting rights of unit owners and proportional voting. Very vague in relation to the board. The board can do all decisions except when it's called out by the docs that the unit owners have to make quorum and vote. Little bit of grey area. We just need the state laws.

I agree Dean.

1. You stated the sunshine law accurately
2. I checked the NJ State condo law and there is no area for "public" discussion.

Then to the original poster item
"2-My understanding of NJ law is the meetings should be conducted ensuring that all members have the opportunity to participate in the association's governance."

I don't think there is any NJ law that allows to participate. The only thing i am thinking out loud over here in the OP condo docs there might be in the bylaws specifically when the owners can vote on things. That is elections etc. In my docs it is called out for bylaw and master changes the assn members need to be contacted and their votes do count in those situations. I think things shift to what is in the OP original docs. Also this makes me take a real hard look at my own condo docs for when assn members are allowed to "participate' in governance. That participation is actually decision making. I don't see anywhere there is "public" comment.

Sorry for the delay here is what I found

Current through Register Vol. 56, No. 17, September 3, 2024
Section 5:26-8.12 - Open meetings(a) The bylaws of the association shall include a requirement that meetings of the executive board where a binding vote of the executive board is to be taken shall be open to attendance by all association members and voting-eligible tenants, as applicable.1. A binding vote is a vote made with a quorum of the executive board members present.2. The board shall provide a brief explanation of the basis for and cost entailed in the matter that is the subject of any binding vote and include the explanation in the minutes for the meeting.3. Associations may adopt a policy for comments by association members and voting eligible tenants during meetings. Such policy shall be applied uniformly.(b) The association shall hold an annual meeting. Within seven days following the annual association meeting, the association shall post, and maintain posted throughout the year, an open meeting schedule of the executive board.1. Such open meeting schedule shall be posted at the place or places at which notices are posted pursuant to (c) below and filed with the board member designated for administering association business.2. The open meeting schedule shall contain the time, date, and locations of such meetings.3. Notwithstanding a meeting cancellation pursuant to (h) below, any changes to the posted open meeting schedule shall be made at least seven days prior to the scheduled date and posted and maintained in the same manner as the original schedule.(c) In addition to the posted open meeting schedule, adequate notice of at least seven days prior to any such meeting shall be given to all association members and voting eligible tenants, as applicable.1. Such notice shall be provided as follows:i. The notice shall be prominently posted in at least one place on the property that is accessible to all owners at all times;ii. The notice shall be posted on the association's website and included in any association newsletter; oriii. The notice shall be personally provided to each member or designee by mail, hand-delivery, or electronic means.2. The notice shall be filed with the board member designated as responsible for administering association business. It shall be maintained by the executive board for a period of two years.3. The notice shall include the following details:i. The time, date, and location of the meeting;ii. Agenda items to the extent known, which shall include items for discussion, items for action, and reoccurring items, such as passage of a budget.4. An individual association member or designee may provide written notice to the board waiving any personal delivery of meeting notices. Such member or designee may rescind such waiver at any time by written notification to the board. Notwithstanding the meeting notice waiver, the member or designee shall be entitled to open meeting minutes as provided in (f) below.(d) Every elected board member shall be provided equal opportunity to participate in any meeting of board members.(e) The executive board may exclude attendance of all association members and voting eligible tenants at meetings, or portions of a meeting.1. The exclusion under (e) above shall only be for discussion of any matters listed in this paragraph:i. Those in which disclosure would constitute an unwarranted invasion of individual privacy;ii. Pending or anticipated litigation or contract negotiations;iii. Those involving employment, promotion, discipline, or dismissal of a specific employee or officer of the association; and/oriv. Those falling within the attorney-client privilege, to the extent that confidentiality is required in order for the attorney to exercise his or her ethical duties as a lawyer.2. A vote taken at a closed meeting shall not be binding. If the matter requires a binding vote, it shall be taken at a subsequent open meeting in a manner that does not disclose any confidences.3. If the closed meeting is to be part of an open meeting, the closed portion shall be convened either before the open portion or at the end of the open meeting portion of the agenda.(f) Minutes for the open sessions of meetings shall be taken for each meeting.1. The minutes shall be legible.2. The minutes shall include the board members present and their titles.3. The minutes shall include clear identification of any matters addressed.4. The minutes shall include clear identification of any matters voted on at the meeting, a record of the votes, and a brief explanation of the basis for and cost entailed in the matter which is the subject of the vote.5. The minutes shall be made available to association members in a timely manner before the next meeting and may be identified as "draft" or "unapproved."6. If a meeting is recorded electronically, a written record shall be taken of the matters addressed and the matters voted on. Association members shall have access to the electronic recording for 30 days from the date the written minutes are approved, as well as the written record, including the right to make a copy of electronic or written records.(g) When a meeting of the executive board is required to deal with matters of such urgency and importance that delay for the purpose of providing seven days advance notice would be likely to result in substantial harm to the interests of the association and provided that the meeting is limited to discussion of, and acting with respect to, such matters of urgency and importance, notice of the emergency meeting shall be deemed to be adequate if it is provided as soon as possible following the calling of the meeting by posting in accordance with (c) above.1. The executive board shall maintain, on the record, the facts establishing the emergency and any prior knowledge of the condition.2. Minutes for emergency meetings shall be taken and made available to members of the association in accordance with (f) above.(h) When the board has determined to cancel a scheduled open meeting, it shall post notice of the cancellation at the meeting site by the time the meeting is scheduled to begin. The Board shall promptly post the notice of cancellation at the location on the property where notices are posted and, if applicable, its website.1. The notice shall state when the meeting will be held and the reason for the cancellation.2. If the start time is delayed, notice of the new time shall be posted at the meeting site to provide notice of the delay to those attending.

In CA, there is no legal meeting called "town hall" or "workshop." Whenever a board quorum meets to discuss an item of business, it's a board meeting requiring agenda, notice, and member comment period, minutes.

I want to thank everyone for their response. I was surprised how many are in favor of restricting home owner participation.
As a point of further information, NJ regulations regarding HOA Board meetings as been amended in 2023 and most recently in February of this year due an Appellate court overturning certain regulation concerned with Board meetings.
In any event I found a link that appears to represent a compromise.
https://nowackhoward.com/behind-closed-doors-can-a-board-of-directors-of-a-community-association-keep-members-out-of-its-meetings/

Again Thank you all for your help
JohnA