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RichardM29 (Virginia)
Posts: 43
Posted:
Our small HOA has its own website, accessible only to lot owners. Is there any downside to keeping our general ledger there, accessible to all?
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,062
Posted:
Yes.

Simply post the treasurers report with the minutes. It will do the same thing.
MichaelS56 (Minnesota)
Posts: 859
Posted:
Our Board places our financials on our association website for the owners to review. It has not caused any issues that we are aware of, but it has helped to build trust between the Board and the owners.
CathyA3 (Ohio)
Posts: 6,299
Posted:
Yes, with one exception. If you treat collection actions as confidential, you'll want to make sure that your aging report doesn't reveal individuals' names.

Our aging reports break down the past due amounts by categories (eg. less than 30 days, 31-60 days, etc.) and there are totals in each category. Then another report lists the delinquent accounts by individual. The first report is made available to owners; the second is not and is only discussed in executive session.
MarshallT (New York)
Posts: 414
Posted:
As long as members cannot be idendtified I don't see a downside.
CathyA3 (Ohio)
Posts: 6,299
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By MarshallT on 09/05/2024 6:03 AM
As long as members cannot be idendtified I don't see a downside.

I don't think there is one as long as no confidential information is released. The association could run afoul of debt collection or bankruptcy laws otherwise (but verify this with a lawyer).

There is still a possible issue with using something like lot numbers to identify delinquent accounts - which is one way boards deal with these issues in open meeting states. In smaller communities, it's still possible to figure out who is attached to what number. In my condo community, the lot numbers that were used by the builder are printed on the plat maps that are available to the membership. If the association can come with an alternative identification scheme, that will probably solve the issue.

But board members come and go, and they don't forget what they learned while they were serving. Also, never underestimate curious people's ability to ferret out information that they shouldn't have. My community is small enough that, given some knowledge of the alternative identification scheme plus lien filings (which are public records), someone with a logic mind could figure it out. The only foolproof method of identification would be a random assignment of numbers - which will drive the board and the community manager bonkers and probably lead to mistakes.
JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265
Posted:
I believe fellow owners are entitled to see all and anything such as contracts, financials, meeting minutes, liens, etc. The only think I would be cautious not showing is showing who is (via name or location) behind on dues. Show amounts just not name who from. I say this based on legal information. Were it me alone, I would name them and hand them out to dry.
RichardM29 (Virginia)
Posts: 43
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By JohnC46 on 09/05/2024 6:25 PM
I believe fellow owners are entitled to see all and anything such as contracts, financials, meeting minutes, liens, etc. The only think I would be cautious not showing is showing who is (via name or location) behind on dues. Show amounts just not name who from. I say this based on legal information. Were it me alone, I would name them and hand them out to dry.

Thanks all for the advice. I think I will go ahead and post it, but first I will take out the current way I maintain records on deposits by lot number.
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,062
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By RichardM29 on 09/06/2024 5:48 PM
Posted By JohnC46 on 09/05/2024 6:25 PM
I believe fellow owners are entitled to see all and anything such as contracts, financials, meeting minutes, liens, etc. The only think I would be cautious not showing is showing who is (via name or location) behind on dues. Show amounts just not name who from. I say this based on legal information. Were it me alone, I would name them and hand them out to dry.


Thanks all for the advice. I think I will go ahead and post it, but first I will take out the current way I maintain records on deposits by lot number.

The payments of assessments and personal privacy is the reason why I said that their is a down side.

I keep lot numbers in the general ledger and on the deposit slips as this allows the individual lot files to be recreated if something were to happen.
(most banks make an image of the deposit slip and each check, so easy to recreate files and ledgers if needed)
WendyM5 (North Carolina)
Posts: 1,522
Posted:
no go ahead and do it. the number of HOA members that don't even know how much money thier HOA has is amazing.
For over 20 years our HOA never published our savings. they only published a preliminary budget showing zero savings every year with a balanced budget.

vis ta vie
DeanJ
Posts: 1,786
Posted:
I wish the states would adopt laws allowing HOAs to publish delinquent owners.
RichardM29 (Virginia)
Posts: 43
Posted:
We are only 16 single family homes, and our "lot numbers" are our physical mailing addresses. I'm rethinking how much needs to be hidden regarding assessment payments.

I do agree that collection actions and disagreements rising to legal disputes should not be reflected in information that could be drawn from the ledger.

However, to simply post when a payment is received from whom doesn't strike me as some huge problem. We are a corporation; these payments are income, and I can't quite see the need to disguise or hide the source of that payment.

CathyA3 (Ohio)
Posts: 6,299
Posted:
Re: the online portals used by our current and previous management companies, neither of them made account information available to anyone beside the owner of that account. We do make detailed financial statements available to the membership, and the bank statement will show individual assessment payments being posted. But they don't identify the person/account that the payment was made by.

I think disclosing such info doesn't satisfy a need beyond curiosity. It does provide fuel for those who like to stir up controversy or ill will So, minimum or questionable benefit at the cost of potential damage to the community.

JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By DeanJ on 09/09/2024 3:57 AM
I wish the states would adopt laws allowing HOAs to publish delinquent owners.

I agree. I believe in public shaming. I would put a sign up naming names.
DeanJ
Posts: 1,786
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By JohnC46 on 09/05/2024 6:25 PM
I believe fellow owners are entitled to see all and anything such as contracts, financials, meeting minutes, liens, etc. The only think I would be cautious not showing is showing who is (via name or location) behind on dues. Show amounts just not name who from. I say this based on legal information. Were it me alone, I would name them and hand them out to dry.

Liens are private legal matters between the owner and the HOA. If the HOA has a collection agreement with their attorney, a lien or a foreclosure will never appear in the minutes because the attorney is authorized to monitor the owner accounts and take legal action without any input from the board once the delinquently reaches at set value. The only thing you may see is late fees and attorney fees collected and total attorney fees billed each month.

TerriS6 (California)
Posts: 3,284
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By DeanJ on 09/17/2024 1:45 PM
Posted By JohnC46 on 09/05/2024 6:25 PM
I believe fellow owners are entitled to see all and anything such as contracts, financials, meeting minutes, liens, etc. The only think I would be cautious not showing is showing who is (via name or location) behind on dues. Show amounts just not name who from. I say this based on legal information. Were it me alone, I would name them and hand them out to dry.


Liens are private legal matters between the owner and the HOA. If the HOA has a collection agreement with their attorney, a lien or a foreclosure will never appear in the minutes because the attorney is authorized to monitor the owner accounts and take legal action without any input from the board once the delinquently reaches at set value. The only thing you may see is late fees and attorney fees collected and total attorney fees billed each month.


DeanJ is obviously not from California where the board must vote at an open noticed board meeting to record a lien.
TerriS6 (California)
Posts: 3,284
Posted:
Now I am convinced that DeanJ purposefully posts information he/she knows to be false just to waste people’s time.
DeanJ
Posts: 1,786
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By TerriS6 on 09/17/2024 7:36 PM
Now I am convinced that DeanJ purposefully posts information he/she knows to be false just to waste people’s time.

No, I just don’t live in a state with crazy HOA laws.
CathyA3 (Ohio)
Posts: 6,299
Posted:
Liens are public info in my neck of the woods. They're recorded and posted on the county recorder's website, so anyone can see them.

By the by, the 2022 updates to Ohio law governing condominiums made open meetings the default, although the law defers to the community's bylaws on this. I boldly predict that the next round of updates to state law will eliminate the exception provided in the bylaws.
DeanJ
Posts: 1,786
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By CathyA3 on 09/18/2024 5:14 AM
Liens are public info in my neck of the woods. They're recorded and posted on the county recorder's website, so anyone can see them.

By the by, the 2022 updates to Ohio law governing condominiums made open meetings the default, although the law defers to the community's bylaws on this. I boldly predict that the next round of updates to state law will eliminate the exception provided in the bylaws.

Two sections of the Ohio Revised Code, 5311 Condo Law and 5322 Planned Community Law.

Both sections

(A)(1) provides the power and authority of the owners association shall be exercised by a board of directors

For condos,

Except as provided in division (A)(1) of this section, the unit owners association shall be governed by bylaws. No modification of or amendment to the bylaws is valid unless it is set forth in an amendment to the declaration, and the amendment to the declaration is filed for record. Unless otherwise provided by the declaration, the bylaws shall provide for the following:

The time and place for holding meetings; the manner of and authority for calling, giving notice of, and conducting meetings; and the requirement, in terms of undivided interests in the common elements, of a quorum for meetings of the unit owners association;

Unless otherwise provided in the declaration or the bylaws, all meetings of the unit owners association are open to the unit owners, and those present in person or by proxy when action is taken during a meeting of the unit owners association constitute a sufficient quorum.

(4)(a) A meeting of the board of directors may be held by any method of communication, including electronic or telephonic communication provided that each member of the board can hear, participate, and respond to every other member of the board. (Note the section doesn’t say the owners have to be able to comment or ask questions)

(b) In lieu of conducting a meeting, the board of directors may take action with the unanimous written consent of the members of the board. Those written consents shall be filed with the minutes of the meetings of the board.

For planned communities

(C) Except during a period of declarant control, the board shall call a meeting of the owners association at least once each year. Special meetings may be called by the president, a majority of the board, owners representing fifty per cent of the voting power in the owners association, or any lower share of the voting power as the declaration or bylaws specify.

(D) The board may hold a meeting by any method of communication, including electronic or telephonic communication, provided that each member of the board can hear or read in real time and participate and respond to every other member of the board.

(E) In lieu of conducting a meeting, the board may take an action with the unanimous written consent of the members of the board. Any written consent shall be filed with the minutes of the meetings of the board.

(F) No owner other than a director may attend or participate in any discussion or deliberation of a meeting of the board of directors unless the board expressly authorizes that owner to attend or participate.

In both a condo or planned community in Ohio, a simple email sent by management, or from one of the board, to the entire board requesting a vote on an issue(s) does not require calling a board meeting and may be passed by unanimous written consent.

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