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LetA (Nevada)
Posts: 2,679
Posted:
A condo community near me is facing condemnation due to bat guano cuckery

I have pieced together from local social media post by residents and local news reporting.
This condo complex is about to be condemned because of inept owners and an inept PMC.
The previous PMC was terminated and a new PMC is in place. I have communicated with two residents
there and both are renters. It appears that this condo is mostly rentals and the owners don't care.
The complex needs to come up with 1 million dollars to make the appropriate repairs and at the same
time put individual meters on each unit.

I can't believe in good conscience any certified CAM would let things get this bad for so long of time.

https://www.ktnv.com/news/time-is-ticking-for-henderson-residents-who-may-be-forced-to-evacuate-their-homes
CathyA3 (Ohio)
Posts: 6,299
Posted:
My opinion: a reputable manager would have fired these guys as a client. A manager can't legally perform the duties of the board or contradict the board's instructions, even if it's clear that the board doesn't know their hm-hm from a hole in the ground.

All of the blame falls squarely on the shoulders of the owners. This is what it means to own property and what happens if you choose to run your property into the ground.

Best case scenario would have been a corporate investor buying up units and converting the property to rentals. The fact that none of them did - apparently - suggests that even they didn't see any value in doing so. This goes along with the condemnation - property worth saving should have gone into receivership or been bought up.

In a related note...

The manager of a large condo community in my area has sent a letter to all residents - I assume at the instruction of the board - saying that state law requires a homeowner vote to allow the board to reduce the contribution to the reserves. Otherwise OMG the monthly assessment will go up to umpty-willion dollars!!

First, props to the board and/or manager for even being aware of state law. However...

This is how it begins.

They can't afford to properly fund the reserves (I'm assuming that they'll get the 51% they need for approval. So one wonders how they plan to afford special assessments or loans, which are just more expensive ways to handle reserve spending.

No doubt they'll start to neglect maintenance instead and do half-@$$ed repairs.

Knowledgeable buyers will begin to steer clear - in part because lenders will be giving the community some side-eye. So over time they'll be left with owners who don't really care.

Would it be surprising that condemnation could be in their future? Or receivership? Or de-conversion to a rental property? I hope it's one of the latter - it's a nice community in a nice area, and it deserves better than what it's getting from the owners. Or a group of owners say "oh h311 no" and decide to reverse course.

But this seems to be the natural lifecycle of condo communities. A bright shiny new community goes up, the owners run it into the ground eventually, the vultures swoop in, and the community is off to whatever passes for an afterlife for such developments. It's a shame, it's such a waste - but we're up against human nature and economics, which seem to be more visible in condos than in single-family home HOAs.
CathyA3 (Ohio)
Posts: 6,299
Posted:
Amusing quote from the news story:

“Someone should be held responsible. I just don’t know who that might be,” one resident told Channel 13.

You. That just might be you. Or, if not you, then your landlord. Basically anyone who cheered on low assessments and ignored annual meetings and thought board service was Not My Problem is responsible.
SheliaH (Indiana)
Posts: 6,964
Posted:
What Cathy said- 1000%

I must say I haven't seen this level of ineptitude in my community. The closest happened several years ago when a townhouse community in my area nearly got its water shut off due to not paying the bill. They had a huge problem with delinquencies and so didn't have enough to pay much of anything. The water was on one meter, meaning those who did pay had to indirectly subsidize those who didn't- and there weren't enough. One day everyone found disconnect notices on their door and had about a week to cone up with the money.

I believe they did come up with the money (and the water company came up with some sort of payment plan) and the community is still up and running. Hopefully, they converted the meter system to where everybody would now be responsible for their own bill - and I suspect they're still paying for that - on top of even higher assessments.

I agree with Cathy that a responsible property manager would have dumped this bunch. I might have sent a notice to everyone with an observation on the water system and a warning that if the board didn't get its shit together, the entire community would be at risk of condemnation. A copy of that letter might have gone to the utility company as well - maybe that would light a fire underneath these people.

Bottom line to anyone who owns a home, HOA or not: This is YOUR home and no one will ever care about it as much as you. You're the one who chose to buy it and ultimately YOU are responsible for taking care of it. Some people simply aren't capable of doing what's necessary and others don't want the responsibility and you find out pretty quickly what side you're on. If you don't want to do the work, don't buy a home-

I know several people who sold their homes during the 2008 real estate meltdown (anyone remember that?) and they concluded they were happier renting and letting someone else do the donkey work. That's fine, but homeowners have to stop assuming they can just pay assessments and go on about their business, regardless of what the developer or realtor tells you. It's when people tell you, "oh, don't worry about whatever" that you need to find out if that's really true.

You can yell all you want about the property manager not doing or should be doing X, Y or Z, not to mention the board, association attorney, your state legislature, and on and on, but sooner or later, you have to get off your ass, start asking questions and demanding answers, then roll up your sleeves and get to work caring for your own damned home. It can be a drag and take time and money away from whatever you'd prefer to do, but that's how it goes when you own something.

If it is not right do not do it; if it is not true do not say it. Marcus Aurelius
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059
Posted:
There was an earlier thread about bats living in the attic of a condo (not the same one as in this thread).

In that thread, there was argument over who should pay (owner or association) to deal with the issue.

Anyone who has served on a board and tried to raise assessments to fully fund reserves or cover the costs of inflation have heard the arguments to kick the can down the road. If there are enough owners who desire to kick the can, the board is usually stuck with limited options to address the issue.

I'm hearing the same arguments in my Association now. The main one being the current owners believing they won't still be here when things come to a boil.

Again, having served on HOA boards where assessments needed to be raised to establish reserve funding, I can easily see how it can happen.
I suspect that those who saw it happening and had their hands tied, sold and moved.
SheliaH (Indiana)
Posts: 6,964
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By TimB4 on 08/31/2024 7:28 AM
There was an earlier thread about bats living in the attic of a condo (not the same one as in this thread).

In that thread, there was argument over who should pay (owner or association) to deal with the issue.

Anyone who has served on a board and tried to raise assessments to fully fund reserves or cover the costs of inflation have heard the arguments to kick the can down the road. If there are enough owners who desire to kick the can, the board is usually stuck with limited options to address the issue.

I'm hearing the same arguments in my Association now. The main one being the current owners believing they won't still be here when things come to a boil.

Again, having served on HOA boards where assessments needed to be raised to establish reserve funding, I can easily see how it can happen.
I suspect that those who saw it happening and had their hands tied, sold and moved.

Yes, and considering howHOA communities are still built out, it's becoming more difficult to find a house that isn't in a HOA. People may have to choose between getting that dream house or accept that HOA living requires a bit more involvement than what they want or were led to believe.

What's so interesting about the "I'm not going to be here in 10 or 20 years anyway,so why should I pay for something I'll never use argument" is that they never use this argument in other areas of their lives like retirement planning. You may or may not outlive your money,but you go ahead and save and invest anyway because you have a vision of what you'd like your retirement to look like and know you need to p,an because you don't know what your health will be like or if you want to move (or have to move for some reason.) We all know about doing this or that upgrade to our homes so we an increase property values. We don't know when we might move,but want to get more money than what we paid - why else do we remodel our kitchen or replace the furnace?

But long term thinking seems to be diminishing in today's society because it's easier to put off hard decisions, thinking it'll be someone else's problem or something somewhere will save us from ourselves. Or these things only happen to other people and won't happen to us because, well, we are....

If it is not right do not do it; if it is not true do not say it. Marcus Aurelius
CathyA3 (Ohio)
Posts: 6,299
Posted:
I've ranted in the past about the slippery slope that communities step onto when they start to cut assessments below where they should be. A few years of it won't hurt as long as they get themselves back on track. But the longer they wait, the deeper the hole is that they're digging - to the point where filling that hole truly is beyond the financial means of many owners.

I've also complained about many of the so-called "consumer protection" provisions in state laws. Provisions such as the ability to vote down assessment increases are really just giving owners enough rope to hang themselves. And odds are that they will do so. People usually don't take the long view - for a number of reasons, some of which are beyond their control.

As with rental restrictions, there does seem to be a window of opportunity during a community's early years in which a course correction is feasible. After that, the community is living beyond its means and burning through the useful life of the common elements at an accelerated rate. When the day of reckoning arrives it will mean significant financial pain that may not enough to repair the accumulated damage. The sooner the reckoning happens, the lesser the damage and the lesser the pain. But few people see it that way.

This happens more frequently in condos, I think. Condos have a perfect storm of inexperienced owners in "starter homes", older people on fixed incomes or who will be moving on to continuing care communities, and people who bought a condo because they couldn't afford a single family home. Oh, and the investors, too. All of these groups want low assessments. Convincing them that low investments aren't in their best interests is a tough sell, because from their perspectives low assessments make perfectly good sense.

It's a conundrum, and I don't have a good answer.
DeanJ
Posts: 1,786
Posted:
A manage follows direction of the Board. If the board determined the bats were owner responsibility and took no action to force the owners to correct the issue, what do you want the manager to do?

Absent a board directive with teeth, most landlords who own condo units will do nothing.
LetA (Nevada)
Posts: 2,679
Posted:
The Irony is one of the unit owners is a State Assemblywoman, who should've known better.
LetA (Nevada)
Posts: 2,679
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By TimB4 on 08/31/2024 7:28 AM
There was an earlier thread about bats living in the attic of a condo (not the same one as in this thread).

In that thread, there was argument over who should pay (owner or association) to deal with the issue.

Anyone who has served on a board and tried to raise assessments to fully fund reserves or cover the costs of inflation have heard the arguments to kick the can down the road. If there are enough owners who desire to kick the can, the board is usually stuck with limited options to address the issue.

I'm hearing the same arguments in my Association now. The main one being the current owners believing they won't still be here when things come to a boil.

Again, having served on HOA boards where assessments needed to be raised to establish reserve funding, I can easily see how it can happen.
I suspect that those who saw it happening and had their hands tied, sold and moved.

We just had our quarterly meeting a few weeks ago, we had to raise assessments yet again after raising them a few dollars last year. This assessment
increase is near the NRS 116 threshold of 15%. Our recent reserve study calls for higher cost to complete the recommended items. It's a necessary
evil to keep money in the coffers to prevent situations just like these.

Is this just bad board decisions combined with poor PMC guidance? Could this be a ploy to rid the property of low income residents to curry favor
for gentrification?
SheliaH (Indiana)
Posts: 6,964
Posted:
At best, the property manager can only make suggestions. Yes,they may be bad ones,which is why you don't rely on the property manager and nothing else. Too many boardx let the property manager do their thinking fir them and it may be these managers didn't do enough research or ask enough questions. But neither did the board and they're the ones sho give overall instructions to the property manager, who's usually responsible for the daily operations. That's enough work in itself.

The gentrification angle may seem far fetched to dome, but I don't count it out completely because I see building codes used to push poor people and people of color out of their homes. Then a developer or investor buys the property dirt cheap, gets all sorts of tax breaks for urban renewal or something g and sells the house for huge profits. The former owners would have been happy to make improvements if they were able to get homes were it not for redlining, underemployment and stuff like that there.

If you know people in that community, they might tell you the truth of what's gone on over the years or try to blame it on someone else, as people do. Ask them how many board or annual meetings did they attend, voted in board elections, served on the board or a committee. He'll. Ask if they read minutes or pay attention to the budget- or did they just stop looking, after they checked that assessments wouldn't increase- which they didn't because everyone screamed about them being "too high." Now ask them to define "too high".....


If it is not right do not do it; if it is not true do not say it. Marcus Aurelius
LetA (Nevada)
Posts: 2,679
Posted:
The only two post I have seen on ND, I get the impression that they are renters and not owners. They are kind of in the cat bird seat
if they want to legally break their lease with no consequence. Then again, they are in the cat bird seat for their land lord being responsible
to pay for their accommodations if the city does condemn the property. Someone did post that recommendation.
CathyA3 (Ohio)
Posts: 6,299
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By LetA on 08/31/2024 3:36 PM
The Irony is one of the unit owners is a State Assemblywoman, who should've known better.

I'm no longer shocked at the amount of ignorance about condos, HOAs or home ownership in general. Much of what owners know - including and especially board members - comes from on the job training. It's kinda crazy. For most people, the equity in their homes is the lion's share of their net worth. Yet there aren't many good ways to prepare for this. Not that many people would take advantage of the resources that are available - folks are busy, and this would be one more hoop to jump through.

People in general are also bad at assessing risks. So we left with the School of Things Blowing Up In Our Faces. Which is fine for individual owners in single family homes outside of HOAs. It's less fine in settings involving joint ownership of multi-million dollar properties.

(I also think that the Big Money folks who benefit financially from the whole community association shtick don't actually want informed buyers, because it could depress sales. If people got a clear picture of what they were getting into, some of them would nope on outta there. But I probably shouldn't say that part out loud.

And while I'm speaking my mind, I have an issue with associations being run by boards with fiduciary duties to their associations while the rest of the owners have no such duty. We basically hand boards some buckets - with no operating instructions - and tell them "bail, babies!!" Meanwhile the rest of the passengers in the boat are knocking holes in the bottom. Example: the laws that allow homeowners to vote down assessment increases. Does no one see the flaws in that setup???

This is how communities end up the way the one in LetA's post ended up.)

LetA (Nevada)
Posts: 2,679
Posted:
It looks like the City of Henderson is going to front the cost of the sewer remediation.
Hopefully the unit owners are not too severely impacted finacially to the point they lose their home
to foreclosure.

https://www.ktnv.com/news/city-will-front-costs-to-update-water-system-in-somerset-park-henderson-mayor-says
JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By LetA on 08/31/2024 3:36 PM
The Irony is one of the unit owners is a State Assemblywoman, who should've known better.

Some of the most stupid people I haver met are elected politicians.
TamaraG7 (Florida)
Posts: 35
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By LetA on 08/30/2024 4:44 PM
A condo community near me is facing condemnation due to bat guano cuckery

I have pieced together from local social media post by residents and local news reporting.
This condo complex is about to be condemned because of inept owners and an inept PMC.
The previous PMC was terminated and a new PMC is in place. I have communicated with two residents
there and both are renters. It appears that this condo is mostly rentals and the owners don't care.
The complex needs to come up with 1 million dollars to make the appropriate repairs and at the same
time put individual meters on each unit.

I can't believe in good conscience any certified CAM would let things get this bad for so long of time.

https://www.ktnv.com/news/time-is-ticking-for-henderson-residents-who-may-be-forced-to-evacuate-their-homes

As you all know or should know, the manager works under the direction of the board.
The manager can't force the board, only make recommendations.
If the Board does not follow the recommendations of the Board with respect to vendors, projects, budget etc., then before all hell breaks loose, either the manger leaves the property and/or the management company fires the Association.

The art of managing condominiums 30 years and older is extremely challenging as many of us managers are dealing with maintenance which has been kicked down the road by owners who didn't fund reserves properly. The Milestones and SIRS have caused a domino effect of hate for managers/association management firms who didn't cause the past years maintenance issues that have now surfaced.

I've personally been in this position and left on-sites and portfolios because the boards refused to listen to my recommendations & also left a big management firm that bought out the company I worked for because I didn't want my reputation ruined because the big firm wasn't getting my vendors paid and was not transparent with my portfolio boards.

The balancing act is sometimes like working the clown act in a circus but the show must go on...
DeanJ
Posts: 1,786
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By LetA on 08/31/2024 3:36 PM
The Irony is one of the unit owners is a State Assemblywoman, who should've known better.

Actually this fact may explain why this happened.

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