KimO
Posts: 2
Posts: 2
Posted:
What I would like to know is, Can a HOA legally release the names and addresses of homeowners that have not paid their dues to the entire community? This is scary because of all the sex offenders in the world.
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is it legal for hoa to release names and addresses
Started by KimO • 24 replies • 3116 views
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DonnaS
Posts: 5,596
Posts: 5,596
Posted:
Kim,
I don't think that there is a "LAW" persay but your HOA documents may or may not have an allowance for the names to be posted. A good HOA will not publicly post them. IF the association is in litigation with an owner, then absolutely they may NOT use public disclosure of the names. It is basically not the right thing to do.
I understand the frustration with owners for the Board of Directors, with owners who have not paid ,because the association bills go on and there is no room for missing dues or fees. If you know a person who is delinquent, they are cheating you and all of the other members, out of money that makes the HOA wheel work.
I don't think that there is a "LAW" persay but your HOA documents may or may not have an allowance for the names to be posted. A good HOA will not publicly post them. IF the association is in litigation with an owner, then absolutely they may NOT use public disclosure of the names. It is basically not the right thing to do.
I understand the frustration with owners for the Board of Directors, with owners who have not paid ,because the association bills go on and there is no room for missing dues or fees. If you know a person who is delinquent, they are cheating you and all of the other members, out of money that makes the HOA wheel work.
RobertR1
Posts: 5,115
Posts: 5,115
Posted:
Kimo,
Well, you stumped me.
Please explain how you rationalize that because some folks are not paying their dues, therefore, this has something to do with the number of sex offenders in the world.
Use the search feature of the Topics discussion page. There are multiple entries about releasing names of deliquent homeowners and I think there may be some comments about sex offenders also.
Personal advice: When faced with any public release of anything by the Board and you don't know, don't do it. See if you can find the reason for the deliquency, if possible, work out a plan to get dues paid. If not inform the person privately by mail of the expected actions by the Board as written out in your documents. If you don't have rules for the procedure make some and get them adopted.
Well, you stumped me.
Please explain how you rationalize that because some folks are not paying their dues, therefore, this has something to do with the number of sex offenders in the world.
Use the search feature of the Topics discussion page. There are multiple entries about releasing names of deliquent homeowners and I think there may be some comments about sex offenders also.
Personal advice: When faced with any public release of anything by the Board and you don't know, don't do it. See if you can find the reason for the deliquency, if possible, work out a plan to get dues paid. If not inform the person privately by mail of the expected actions by the Board as written out in your documents. If you don't have rules for the procedure make some and get them adopted.
KimO
Posts: 2
Posts: 2
Posted:
sorry but I think that was misunderstood, releasing the names and addresses to the community is the concern of sex offenders having knowledge of your address.
DonnaS
Posts: 5,596
Posts: 5,596
Posted:
Kim,
Don't forget about phone books, internet sites and every other possibility for finding people on the web. Your worry about sexual preditors in relation to the Board posting delinquest dues is rather far fetched or better than that, bizzare.
NL
Posts: 43
Posts: 43
Posted:
MY HOA Document clearly states that all financial records of the association are to be made public to all homeowners, this includes delinquent homeowners. It stats in our by laws that homeowners will be made aware of delinquent dues on a quarterly bases.
since litigations are public record I see no reason for not letting the members of the HOA know what their money is being spent on and why, and against whom, litigation can have an impact on all members.
I don't think sex offenders are reviewing HOA documents looking for prey, there are to many easier ways for them to go about it.
since litigations are public record I see no reason for not letting the members of the HOA know what their money is being spent on and why, and against whom, litigation can have an impact on all members.
I don't think sex offenders are reviewing HOA documents looking for prey, there are to many easier ways for them to go about it.
RobertR1
Posts: 5,115
Posts: 5,115
Posted:
NL,
It would be nice to know in detail what your documents say.
Making the associations records available is a big step to releasing names of deliquent members of your organization. I would suspect that unless your records are available to the general public and/or your association is in the habit of posting your association business to the public domain, you better be very careful about this, like don't do it.
It is not worth the risk legally and your board should not have some kind of vendetta to embarass folks. It won't get you any more money.
Even if you have a lien against them and the court records show this, I wouldn't do it. You may have to prove your intent and if there was any personal contact between the parties, you may be hard pressed to prove your motives are pure.
It would be nice to know in detail what your documents say.
Making the associations records available is a big step to releasing names of deliquent members of your organization. I would suspect that unless your records are available to the general public and/or your association is in the habit of posting your association business to the public domain, you better be very careful about this, like don't do it.
It is not worth the risk legally and your board should not have some kind of vendetta to embarass folks. It won't get you any more money.
Even if you have a lien against them and the court records show this, I wouldn't do it. You may have to prove your intent and if there was any personal contact between the parties, you may be hard pressed to prove your motives are pure.
BrianB
Posts: 2,787
Posts: 2,787
Posted:
there is a difference in what you can do and what you should do, and what will be successful if you do.
You CAN release the names and addresses of delinquent owners to your HOA. The effects of this are open to debate.
As NL points out, the records are OPEN to any member. I used to encourage people to look at the records, thus avoiding the "you told Mr X i was behind". You did not tell anyone, you merely followed the rules and allowed owners to look at the HOA finances if they were interested.
You Could release the names of delinquent owners and addresses to the general public. Credit agencies, for example, or published on a website. Names and addresses are NOT private or protected information, and there is certainly no law that you cannot disclose a debt. Businesses post bad checks at their cashier stations all the time. There is great debate on if this is effective at all. Land ownership is recorded in public documents all the time, free to anyone. You are not violating any laws in posting this information either.
You CAN release the names and addresses of delinquent owners to your HOA. The effects of this are open to debate.
As NL points out, the records are OPEN to any member. I used to encourage people to look at the records, thus avoiding the "you told Mr X i was behind". You did not tell anyone, you merely followed the rules and allowed owners to look at the HOA finances if they were interested.
You Could release the names of delinquent owners and addresses to the general public. Credit agencies, for example, or published on a website. Names and addresses are NOT private or protected information, and there is certainly no law that you cannot disclose a debt. Businesses post bad checks at their cashier stations all the time. There is great debate on if this is effective at all. Land ownership is recorded in public documents all the time, free to anyone. You are not violating any laws in posting this information either.
MicheleD
Posts: 4,427
Posts: 4,427
Posted:
Last week I mailed out to all the membership the status of current-year assessments.
The list contained each address and a column next to it marked either PAID or NOT PAID.
We USED to just send out a list with all the addresses of the people who paid and instructed homeowners that if their address were not on the list, then we did not have their payment recorded.
This caused great confusion and people called because their address was on the list and they KNOW they paid, because they got the canceled check back.
Yes. We know. The list showed everyone who had PAID - it had a huge heading that said that's what the list was. A homeowner would only need to send in a check if their address were NOT on the list. We did it that way because the president at the time thought it was too harsh to either just list those who didn't pay, or list everyone with the payment status. He was wrong! LOL
So now we don't separate it.
Before we ever started sending out any list at all, we simply sent individual second notices to the non-payers. We would get maybe a handful of checks out of that effort. But most just threw the notices away.
NOW they see that their neighbors see their address and KNOW whether they paid or not.
Everyone gets the list of all addresses and the list indicates the assessment status.
We get a slew of checks immediately after the list goes out.
It seems to work.
The list contained each address and a column next to it marked either PAID or NOT PAID.
We USED to just send out a list with all the addresses of the people who paid and instructed homeowners that if their address were not on the list, then we did not have their payment recorded.
This caused great confusion and people called because their address was on the list and they KNOW they paid, because they got the canceled check back.
Yes. We know. The list showed everyone who had PAID - it had a huge heading that said that's what the list was. A homeowner would only need to send in a check if their address were NOT on the list. We did it that way because the president at the time thought it was too harsh to either just list those who didn't pay, or list everyone with the payment status. He was wrong! LOL
So now we don't separate it.
Before we ever started sending out any list at all, we simply sent individual second notices to the non-payers. We would get maybe a handful of checks out of that effort. But most just threw the notices away.
NOW they see that their neighbors see their address and KNOW whether they paid or not.
Everyone gets the list of all addresses and the list indicates the assessment status.
We get a slew of checks immediately after the list goes out.
It seems to work.
RobertR1
Posts: 5,115
Posts: 5,115
Posted:
Michele,
"
NOW they see that their neighbors see their address and KNOW whether they paid or not.
Everyone gets the list of all addresses and the list indicates the assessment status.
We get a slew of checks immediately after the list goes out.
It seems to work."
Your quote.
The purpose of your list by your admission is to embarass someone so they will pay the money, better make sure their are no attorneys on your list.
Really this has been gone over and over here and the smart money seems to be, "Don't ask for trouble." INstead provide step by step, legal for your state, covenants that spell out the procedures for collecting deliquent fees. It starts with a personal phone call and then steps up to notices by mail to individuals, then certified notices and information on why the fees are legal and how the association will collect the fees on up to placing a lien on the property, to attorney action. You will not get them all and you will not get them all with public notice especially if you go on record saying you are trying to embarass them into paying.
"
NOW they see that their neighbors see their address and KNOW whether they paid or not.
Everyone gets the list of all addresses and the list indicates the assessment status.
We get a slew of checks immediately after the list goes out.
It seems to work."
Your quote.
The purpose of your list by your admission is to embarass someone so they will pay the money, better make sure their are no attorneys on your list.
Really this has been gone over and over here and the smart money seems to be, "Don't ask for trouble." INstead provide step by step, legal for your state, covenants that spell out the procedures for collecting deliquent fees. It starts with a personal phone call and then steps up to notices by mail to individuals, then certified notices and information on why the fees are legal and how the association will collect the fees on up to placing a lien on the property, to attorney action. You will not get them all and you will not get them all with public notice especially if you go on record saying you are trying to embarass them into paying.
NL
Posts: 43
Posts: 43
Posted:
Robert opening the records of the HOA would include all bank statements and copies of letters sent to members, which would include late notices, bills, correspondance, grievances, contracts, and attorney notes.
The only people who have the "right" to view these documents are registered owners as stated in the documents. Also potential purchasers have the right to know what the financial status of an HOA is, and this would include late dues, lawsuits etc. We are not talking about posting a sign at the mail box for all to see.
Nothing is ever discussed one on one with any homeowner regarding another homeowners delinquencies or failure to follow rules and regulations unless all are told at the same time, and we do this via a quartely newsletter.
The purpose of the HOA is to protect everyones investment, so why would it not be responsible to let a homeowner(s) who pays on time, follows his obligations that he signed on to be made aware they they are subsidizing a homeowner, which impacts on future increases and assessments, and resales.
It is not like you are telling something that isn't true and can not be supported with the proper paperwork.
People who with no good cause ignore their obligations are penalized all the time, as stated in another post, by displaying bad checks, by list that are given out to businesses to not accept checks from them, check approval companies, denial of a purchase because of a problem with your bank card, the list is endless.
We have an opinion from our Attorney that it is ok to publish the names of delinquent homeowners and those involved in lawsuits. In fact the builder of our community periodically put out a notice listing the names of people who were in arrears and how much.
Boards are usually volunteers who are elected to represent the best for all homeowners and the community - so not keeping everyone informed of financial problems, lawsuits etc is not following the fiducary responsibility that the Board should be committed to.
So if the argument is don't let other homeowners know who is delinquent because they could sue you, - what is to keep a homeowner who is in good shape not sueing you for not keeping them abreast of situations that can impact them?
Most of these posting are based on peoples opinions and gut feelings. We follow our Documents to the T, nothing more or nothing less - everyone is expected to abide by what they agreed to when they purchased the property - the rules and regulations didn't just appear after they moved in.
The only people who have the "right" to view these documents are registered owners as stated in the documents. Also potential purchasers have the right to know what the financial status of an HOA is, and this would include late dues, lawsuits etc. We are not talking about posting a sign at the mail box for all to see.
Nothing is ever discussed one on one with any homeowner regarding another homeowners delinquencies or failure to follow rules and regulations unless all are told at the same time, and we do this via a quartely newsletter.
The purpose of the HOA is to protect everyones investment, so why would it not be responsible to let a homeowner(s) who pays on time, follows his obligations that he signed on to be made aware they they are subsidizing a homeowner, which impacts on future increases and assessments, and resales.
It is not like you are telling something that isn't true and can not be supported with the proper paperwork.
People who with no good cause ignore their obligations are penalized all the time, as stated in another post, by displaying bad checks, by list that are given out to businesses to not accept checks from them, check approval companies, denial of a purchase because of a problem with your bank card, the list is endless.
We have an opinion from our Attorney that it is ok to publish the names of delinquent homeowners and those involved in lawsuits. In fact the builder of our community periodically put out a notice listing the names of people who were in arrears and how much.
Boards are usually volunteers who are elected to represent the best for all homeowners and the community - so not keeping everyone informed of financial problems, lawsuits etc is not following the fiducary responsibility that the Board should be committed to.
So if the argument is don't let other homeowners know who is delinquent because they could sue you, - what is to keep a homeowner who is in good shape not sueing you for not keeping them abreast of situations that can impact them?
Most of these posting are based on peoples opinions and gut feelings. We follow our Documents to the T, nothing more or nothing less - everyone is expected to abide by what they agreed to when they purchased the property - the rules and regulations didn't just appear after they moved in.
MicheleD
Posts: 4,427
Posts: 4,427
Posted:
Sorry. But not only are there plenty of attorneys in our neighborhood (and a retired judge on our board), but our HOA attorney advised us that this is the way we need to go about it.
It does work.
Before the residents took over from the developer, that is exactly how the developer did it. In fact, he would send the report out every two weeks. But we don't have a paid secretary to stay on top of it like that.
HIS list included the homeowners' names, and appeared to be an electronic ledger or registers of some kind that showed the name, the lot number, the address and the date paid. It even reflected bounced checks that had been returned for NSF when there were any.
When the HOA was turned over to us, we decided to try it differently for a few years. We sent only individual statements, and individual second reminders, and individual THIRD reminders, and individual notices of intent to file liens. . . .and got a lot of people just ignoring us, even to the lien stage.
So we tried to bring back the "assessment status report." Only we decided NOT to put the names on, just the lot # and the address. And we initially just listed the addresses of the people who had paid, thanking them for their payment and asking everyone else to review the list, and if their address is not on there to please send payment immediately.
Still little response.
So the next year we went back to compiling the entire list (however we still do not publish the names) of addresses and the PAID/NOT PAID status. (we also don't indicate NSF checks, if any.)
We get a slew of payments in immediately after the status report goes out. In fact, we get all but the hard-core cases, about 12 or so a year.
It works. Our intent is not to *embarrass* them, nor is that the purpose of the report. However, if it motivates them to send in their required assessment payment, I'm not going to argue with success.
It does work.
Before the residents took over from the developer, that is exactly how the developer did it. In fact, he would send the report out every two weeks. But we don't have a paid secretary to stay on top of it like that.
HIS list included the homeowners' names, and appeared to be an electronic ledger or registers of some kind that showed the name, the lot number, the address and the date paid. It even reflected bounced checks that had been returned for NSF when there were any.
When the HOA was turned over to us, we decided to try it differently for a few years. We sent only individual statements, and individual second reminders, and individual THIRD reminders, and individual notices of intent to file liens. . . .and got a lot of people just ignoring us, even to the lien stage.
So we tried to bring back the "assessment status report." Only we decided NOT to put the names on, just the lot # and the address. And we initially just listed the addresses of the people who had paid, thanking them for their payment and asking everyone else to review the list, and if their address is not on there to please send payment immediately.
Still little response.
So the next year we went back to compiling the entire list (however we still do not publish the names) of addresses and the PAID/NOT PAID status. (we also don't indicate NSF checks, if any.)
We get a slew of payments in immediately after the status report goes out. In fact, we get all but the hard-core cases, about 12 or so a year.
It works. Our intent is not to *embarrass* them, nor is that the purpose of the report. However, if it motivates them to send in their required assessment payment, I'm not going to argue with success.
NL
Posts: 43
Posts: 43
Posted:
Just one more thing about this, I don't know about the rest of you but why should a volunteer board have to be calling people on the phone and begging them to pay what they committed to. Our due dates are the same ever year it hasn't changed in 10 yrs. We send bills out way in advance of due date, send out an email reminding them that payment is due and than give them 10 days beyond before a late penalty is assessed. In fact in our Quarterly newsletters we put a reminder of upcoming dates for payments to be made.
You don't do this with your bank, your credit card, your car loan, or any other obligations. If you do you are immediatly reported to credit bureaus as late - which in turn has an adverse affect on all of your other credit obligations.
Boards need to take a stand and not tolerate this - yes you will get one who is going to challenge you - but ulitmately you will win they signed a legal binding document to following the rules and regulations, which include paying their HOA Dues and they are aware of what the consequences can be.
You don't do this with your bank, your credit card, your car loan, or any other obligations. If you do you are immediatly reported to credit bureaus as late - which in turn has an adverse affect on all of your other credit obligations.
Boards need to take a stand and not tolerate this - yes you will get one who is going to challenge you - but ulitmately you will win they signed a legal binding document to following the rules and regulations, which include paying their HOA Dues and they are aware of what the consequences can be.
NL
Posts: 43
Posts: 43
Posted:
Michele D
I applaud you, please come and join our HOA..........
As I said earlier a Board is here to take care of everyones rights, not just one who decides not to pay on time. If they get embarrassed so be it, they brought it on themselves.... we are talking about adults here!!!!
No need to discuss this point any further.......do what works best for your Board to make your community run well... as long as you are within the scope of your documents and the law pretaining to your state.
I applaud you, please come and join our HOA..........
As I said earlier a Board is here to take care of everyones rights, not just one who decides not to pay on time. If they get embarrassed so be it, they brought it on themselves.... we are talking about adults here!!!!
No need to discuss this point any further.......do what works best for your Board to make your community run well... as long as you are within the scope of your documents and the law pretaining to your state.
MicheleD
Posts: 4,427
Posts: 4,427
Posted:
Besides, my comment about them being embarrassed, or YOUR comment about them being embarrassed, is all speculation anyway. Maybe they are, maybe they aren't.
I don't really know why they send in their required annual assessment payment after a full listing goes out, almost a month after the initial due date, and almost 3 months after their first notice. My best guess would be because they realize their neighbors now know whether they paid or not. But that may not be the reason at all. It probably is, but that's not my concern.
The report itself doesn't have that kind of power. If it does embarrass them, well, the report is just providing a factual statement of the status of the membership assessments at a given point in time.
On the other hand, if they were paid up by the time the report came out, then they wouldn't have to be concerned about what their status showed. That's all under THEIR control, not the board's. It really shouldn't be a surprise from one year to the next that by December 31 they need to have sent $150 in to the HOA.
I don't really know why they send in their required annual assessment payment after a full listing goes out, almost a month after the initial due date, and almost 3 months after their first notice. My best guess would be because they realize their neighbors now know whether they paid or not. But that may not be the reason at all. It probably is, but that's not my concern.
The report itself doesn't have that kind of power. If it does embarrass them, well, the report is just providing a factual statement of the status of the membership assessments at a given point in time.
On the other hand, if they were paid up by the time the report came out, then they wouldn't have to be concerned about what their status showed. That's all under THEIR control, not the board's. It really shouldn't be a surprise from one year to the next that by December 31 they need to have sent $150 in to the HOA.
GlenL
Posts: 5,429
Posts: 5,429
Posted:
We don't have to post them. If someone gets 90 days in arrears we file a lien; this is public information on the courts website. We have our own "Mrs. Kravitz" (Bewitched) who instead of looking out her window watching everything (her unit is in the back) trolls the courts website and if a neighbors name pops up the information is soon know throughout the community. As I like to say there are three ways to get info out: telephone, telegraph or tella Britney.
RobertR1
Posts: 5,115
Posts: 5,115
Posted:
NL and Michele,
I have already asked Michele to come and live at my Condo. She is indeed a sharp knife.
One of the facts about posting advice to other people is to not lead them down the wrong path. As I said we have been up and down the road about this more than a few times. There is no doubt in my mind that some will be convinced to publish these debtors lists and as with any advice you take it or leave it and that is true here also. Being able to understand the problem is only part of the equation when you post advice. I personally feel exactly as you both feel but I am not the one that has to make the decision. So owners have to understand that boards will act when they are comfortable with the action. I am not saying, it should not be considered, just take the smart road. You all are convinced, all well and good, and I was for years also until the time came when some of our board was uncomfortable publishing one of these lists. Then it becomes can I expect someone else to stick their neck out for me if the possibility exists they could be harmed personally. I hear you say the lawyer says this and the lawyers says that, but these CC&R's we talk about are all written by lawyers and ewven though they state you can lawfully lien a mans house for non payment of dues, I have never seen any documents that say the legal procedure is to publish a debtors list with the admitted intention to embarass them or for any reason.
So do and say what you are comfortable with. I would be comfortable publishing a list, but I know my reason is not pure, but I would dtill do it, but then, that is not giving advice. Also some states have different laws for this kind of thing, California comes to mind.
I have already asked Michele to come and live at my Condo. She is indeed a sharp knife.
One of the facts about posting advice to other people is to not lead them down the wrong path. As I said we have been up and down the road about this more than a few times. There is no doubt in my mind that some will be convinced to publish these debtors lists and as with any advice you take it or leave it and that is true here also. Being able to understand the problem is only part of the equation when you post advice. I personally feel exactly as you both feel but I am not the one that has to make the decision. So owners have to understand that boards will act when they are comfortable with the action. I am not saying, it should not be considered, just take the smart road. You all are convinced, all well and good, and I was for years also until the time came when some of our board was uncomfortable publishing one of these lists. Then it becomes can I expect someone else to stick their neck out for me if the possibility exists they could be harmed personally. I hear you say the lawyer says this and the lawyers says that, but these CC&R's we talk about are all written by lawyers and ewven though they state you can lawfully lien a mans house for non payment of dues, I have never seen any documents that say the legal procedure is to publish a debtors list with the admitted intention to embarass them or for any reason.
So do and say what you are comfortable with. I would be comfortable publishing a list, but I know my reason is not pure, but I would dtill do it, but then, that is not giving advice. Also some states have different laws for this kind of thing, California comes to mind.
KathleenM1
Posts: 1
Posts: 1
Posted:
Our community management group released to another homeowner the names and addresses of homeowners in our neighborhood who they are considering legal action against. Our HOA has not transitioned to the homeowners yet, but the developer board is acting on our behalf. I feel the management company breached their contract with the developer and put in jeopardy the legality of any pending lawsuuit against these homeowners. They also breached a homeowner confidentiality clause. This company had no right to share account information with another homeowner. Any comments on this kind of behavior from a management company would be welcomed.
KathleenM1
KathleenM1
BrianB
Posts: 2,787
Posts: 2,787
Posted:
there's a fine line in this situation. as a homeowner, i have the RIGHT (and responsibility) to oversee and monitor the association books/accounts. THe HOA is a business, and every HO is a shareholder. As shareholders, it is our right to view the inner workings of how our money/investments are spent. To me, the line is whether the owner ASKED to see the accounts, or the board/MC simply went out and provided the information to a limited number of HO's. If asked, the HOA has no choice but to open their books to owners. If information is given to ALL HO's, that may be okay too. But to give account information selectively to certain owners without their inquiry seems bad.
That's why i always answered my HO's requests to publish a list of delinquent owners with the response: AS a homeowner and member of this association, it is your right to view ALL the accounts and operations of this business. All you have to do is make the arrangements with our bookkeeper to get the information you want.
That's why i always answered my HO's requests to publish a list of delinquent owners with the response: AS a homeowner and member of this association, it is your right to view ALL the accounts and operations of this business. All you have to do is make the arrangements with our bookkeeper to get the information you want.
MicheleD
Posts: 4,427
Posts: 4,427
Posted:
Kathleen, I'm not a property management company and I'm not from South Carolina, so I can't speak to either perspective.
However, something to consider, these are not just random people living in a close geographic area or in close proximity to each other. These are all members of the same organization, and as such, have a right to view all documents associated with that organization, including documents that contain payment information or what have you.
If a homeowner comes to the board and asks to see a list of all the residents we have issued complaint letters to, we would show it to that person. He/she is a member of the organization, just as we are, and has the right to see those documents.
Conversely, if someone from another HOA, or just a random guy off the street, comes in and asks the same question, we would refuse them. They are not a member of our organization and have no right to any of our documents.
However, something to consider, these are not just random people living in a close geographic area or in close proximity to each other. These are all members of the same organization, and as such, have a right to view all documents associated with that organization, including documents that contain payment information or what have you.
If a homeowner comes to the board and asks to see a list of all the residents we have issued complaint letters to, we would show it to that person. He/she is a member of the organization, just as we are, and has the right to see those documents.
Conversely, if someone from another HOA, or just a random guy off the street, comes in and asks the same question, we would refuse them. They are not a member of our organization and have no right to any of our documents.
RobertR1
Posts: 5,115
Posts: 5,115
Posted:
To all,
In view of what has been posted would we all agree that if an owner wants to know who is deliquent he can justify looking at books to fine out. What he does with this information is beyond the scope of the association.
Then is it proper to print the debtors list in the public domain. Some feel it is justified because it aids in collecting fees. Other don't think it is such a good idea.
Posting a bad check in a public business seems to be done all the time. Do we then want to say the associations are just a public business?
Do we agree that if this owner tacks up a bad check that he then is solely responsible for his action. I would think so.
In an association if an action is taken by the Board, then all the owners have legal responsibility, unless the action itself is illegal.
Is that where we are at this point?
In view of what has been posted would we all agree that if an owner wants to know who is deliquent he can justify looking at books to fine out. What he does with this information is beyond the scope of the association.
Then is it proper to print the debtors list in the public domain. Some feel it is justified because it aids in collecting fees. Other don't think it is such a good idea.
Posting a bad check in a public business seems to be done all the time. Do we then want to say the associations are just a public business?
Do we agree that if this owner tacks up a bad check that he then is solely responsible for his action. I would think so.
In an association if an action is taken by the Board, then all the owners have legal responsibility, unless the action itself is illegal.
Is that where we are at this point?
MicheleD
Posts: 4,427
Posts: 4,427
Posted:
Robert, just to be clear, neither myself nor our board advocates posting a listing of the status of the assessment collection in a public forum.
Since non-members of the association are not legally entitled to view the documents, we would not be comfortable posting the list in such a manner.
However, that is a long way from distributing the document to current association members. It includes all data, not just delinquent data, and, therefore, in and of itself, it is nothing more than a status report to which all members are entitled.
Just to clarify our points of difference between distributing to all members and posting on a public-access medium.
Since non-members of the association are not legally entitled to view the documents, we would not be comfortable posting the list in such a manner.
However, that is a long way from distributing the document to current association members. It includes all data, not just delinquent data, and, therefore, in and of itself, it is nothing more than a status report to which all members are entitled.
Just to clarify our points of difference between distributing to all members and posting on a public-access medium.
RobertR1
Posts: 5,115
Posts: 5,115
Posted:
I would not tell your board how to do their business. If they decide to post it in the evening paper, I would only say it is not a very smart move and I suggest not doing it. If they were gooing to put in on their open website, I would say the same, and if they were going to put it on a password protected site I would still say the same. If an owner whats to know who is delinqent, he has the right to know. Our particular Board would probably not allow you to see what they would probably call privledged or personal sensitive information. I imagine that to challenge this in court would be time consuming and expensive to all parties. All the above just considerations, nothing more. I dop not believe the action or inaction of the board makes it all well and proper.
As an owner I have to decide how I want to consider the matter in my association. I have enough doubt about the issue to be cautious.
Who's to say?
As an owner I have to decide how I want to consider the matter in my association. I have enough doubt about the issue to be cautious.
Who's to say?
NL
Posts: 43
Posts: 43
Posted:
Whew! A lot of conversation on this. Anyway we put it we should do what our Board is legally allowed to do, as outlined in HOA Documents and your state law.
Yes they are written by attorneys and most are pretty boiler plate stuff - but we need to go by what they advise us to do as is legal. Our association only uses an attorney as a last resort - and they specialize in only HOA law.
The problem with posting delinquencies, and enforcing rules and regulations is that everyone is for it until it they are the one in the hot seat.
There is a lot of splitting hairs here, but we all agree on the same thing - Boards should do their jobs and do it responsibly.
Good Luck to all - I am sure we will be dealing with this type of issues for a long long time.
Yes they are written by attorneys and most are pretty boiler plate stuff - but we need to go by what they advise us to do as is legal. Our association only uses an attorney as a last resort - and they specialize in only HOA law.
The problem with posting delinquencies, and enforcing rules and regulations is that everyone is for it until it they are the one in the hot seat.
There is a lot of splitting hairs here, but we all agree on the same thing - Boards should do their jobs and do it responsibly.
Good Luck to all - I am sure we will be dealing with this type of issues for a long long time.
ShawnaF
Posts: 83
Posts: 83
Posted:
KimO - no worries about your name & address posted anywhere - that's not where you need to worry with most sex offenders. That's public info - your info and sex offender info.
If you're seriously worried about sex offenders, keep that separate and seek advice from your Neighborhood Watch or local police department. They also offer security measures to help you out. A sex offender will not be tracking you based upon your name or address, but based upon your actions and what you do NOT do to protect yourself.
If you're seriously worried about sex offenders, keep that separate and seek advice from your Neighborhood Watch or local police department. They also offer security measures to help you out. A sex offender will not be tracking you based upon your name or address, but based upon your actions and what you do NOT do to protect yourself.
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