PM Fees

Started by LetA • 12 replies • 305 views

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LetA (Nevada)
Posts: 2,679

Posted:

Should the price the PM charges be all inclusive. i.e. the cost of management, accounting, meeting forms etc?
Why does it seem like we are being nickel and dimmed on our budget sheet?
PMC's IMHO should charge a flat fee and that fee should include the whole smash.
on the other hand it could be the PMC is showing us where the money is going, but none the less
it just looks like we are being fleeced.

We are faced with yet another assessment increase after last years increase. Last years increase was due to rising cost
and bringing on a new pool cleanser that is just mediocre at best.

Opinion time. Is trimming trees on owners property the same maintenance as trimming a bush or shrub?
Our covenants call for the HOA to maintain the landscaping in each front yard.
Since the beginning the PMC has interpenetrated it to mean replacing the hard core plumbing associated with the drip
irrigation system like back flow valves, watering clocks, regulators and servos.

My interpenetration is just trimming bushes & shrubs and leaf blowing the debris. This would include replacing the
drip emitters because these do get knocked off during the landscapers job.

I would like to put it to a vote of the homeowners to amend the CC&R's for the owners to take care of their own landscaping.
That would cut down on assessments and perhaps leave enough meat on the bone for more important matters like cameras
at the entrances with a virtual attendant.

JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265

Posted:

Leta

Typically a PMC will offer a list of services and you choose which to buy. As an example we were offered neighborhood inspection services which we turned down.

Our dues also include front and side yard landscape maintenance and it includes the irrigation system. As far as trees goes, only the branches touching the house are trimmed. Nothing else on the trees.

CathyA3 (Ohio)
Posts: 6,299

Posted:

As John said, communities are very different and have different needs. A flat fee is kinda like cable TV - you may only want a hand full of channels but you're forced to buy a bunch of stuff you don't want.

a flat fee would also price many smaller communities right out of the market - they couldn't afford it. They want to pick and choose because they don't have the funds to pay for things they don't need.

Our current management contract specifies one board meeting per month. But if we need the manager to be present more often because of something unexpected, we can buy the extra meetings we need. Otherwise we'd be forced to do without. I appreciate the flexibility.

Are there managers who game the system? I'm sure there are. But if the board checks references and does all the other due diligence before signing the contract - and they check the monthly financials and question something that doesn't make sense - they should be able to avoid the bad actors. Or at least catch them before things get too out of hand.

WendyM5 (North Carolina)
Posts: 1,522

Posted:

every mgt contract I've read has nickle and dime fees. especially when it comes to late fees, collections and fine. I love how they kick the living shit out of owners that need to go to collections $120 fee or lawyer $250 fee, as if the fees most hoa's charge aren't enough. It's a gang up on the weakest mentality.

vis ta vie

CathyA3 (Ohio)
Posts: 6,299

Posted:

First off, a basic economic reality: Work is something you have to pay someone to do. If you don't pay them, they won't do it - not for you, anyway.

Anyone who provides services needs to be paid. Of course a board may choose to do without their services and (try to) handle the work themselves - that's why the charges are often a la carte.

Professionals may occasionally choose to work pro bono for worthy causes. More power to anyone who can convince a professional that their association is a "worthy cause" - oh, and consult your tax professional to see how a non-profit needs to handle the value of pro bono work. Expect to pay the tax person for their opinion. /s

It's totally up to the board to decide what works best for their community. They have three options: pay someone, do it themselves, or do without. Pick one. Not liking any of the options won't magically create a fourth option, although people sometimes behave as if they believe that it will.

LetA (Nevada)
Posts: 2,679

Posted:

Thanks for the responses. It's coming up on budget ratification time again and we are going to need to raise
assessments yet again. Cost are going up and we are going to have to set some more money aside for taxes because
of the nice return we got on our CD's. If those interest rates hold we can easily have the extra money
in the operating account and not have to move that much into reserves to keep the reserves close to 100%

One operating expense I am not happy about and it makes no sense is the amount we are projecting to budget for
parking enforcement. WE get absolutely zero in return.. How is is we tow a car and we don't send a compliance
letter to the registered owner to recover our cost of the tow?? It is almost like the towing company is double
dipping and keeping the whole pie.. They tow the car, charge us the HOA, then charge the registered owner all
the fees and keep all the money. We should get a piece of that pie too.

MarshallT (New York)
Posts: 414

Posted:

I think this is a fairly common practice to charge additional fees for additional services. An all-inclusive fee would probably be more expensive, and you may not use all of the services offered in that case.

I understand you feel like the charges are a lot, and I imagine they are, but the cost of everything is up. If you are happy with the services and the company is helping your community, then the costs are worth it.

WendyM5 (North Carolina)
Posts: 1,522

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By LetA on 08/06/2024 5:41 AM
Thanks for the responses. It's coming up on budget ratification time again and we are going to need to raise
assessments yet again. Cost are going up and we are going to have to set some more money aside for taxes because
of the nice return we got on our CD's. If those interest rates hold we can easily have the extra money
in the operating account and not have to move that much into reserves to keep the reserves close to 100%

One operating expense I am not happy about and it makes no sense is the amount we are projecting to budget for
parking enforcement. WE get absolutely zero in return.. How is is we tow a car and we don't send a compliance
letter to the registered owner to recover our cost of the tow?? It is almost like the towing company is double
dipping and keeping the whole pie.. They tow the car, charge us the HOA, then charge the registered owner all
the fees and keep all the money. We should get a piece of that pie too.

sounds like you need to redo the contract. my limited experience is most board members dont' really read contracts. if you are lucky there is one board member that might read the contract. That's what happened withour insurance contract. Old board said we needed to upgrade playground because one wooden playtower was a major liability. Then they didn't bother to call insuarnce company and get insurance on new playground equipment, because past board never insured the old playground equipment. blind following the blind.

vis ta vie

JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By WendyM5 on 08/05/2024 2:57 PM
every mgt contract I've read has nickle and dime fees. especially when it comes to late fees, collections and fine. I love how they kick the living shit out of owners that need to go to collections $120 fee or lawyer $250 fee, as if the fees most hoa's charge aren't enough. It's a gang up on the weakest mentality.

Avoid issues by paying on time. I say if late, gang up on them.

DeanJ
Posts: 1,786

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By LetA on 08/05/2024 12:40 PM
Should the price the PM charges be all inclusive. i.e. the cost of management, accounting, meeting forms etc?
Why does it seem like we are being nickel and dimmed on our budget sheet?
PMC's IMHO should charge a flat fee and that fee should include the whole smash.
on the other hand it could be the PMC is showing us where the money is going, but none the less
it just looks like we are being fleeced.

We are faced with yet another assessment increase after last years increase. Last years increase was due to rising cost
and bringing on a new pool cleanser that is just mediocre at best.

Opinion time. Is trimming trees on owners property the same maintenance as trimming a bush or shrub?
Our covenants call for the HOA to maintain the landscaping in each front yard.
Since the beginning the PMC has interpenetrated it to mean replacing the hard core plumbing associated with the drip
irrigation system like back flow valves, watering clocks, regulators and servos.

My interpenetration is just trimming bushes & shrubs and leaf blowing the debris. This would include replacing the
drip emitters because these do get knocked off during the landscapers job.

I would like to put it to a vote of the homeowners to amend the CC&R's for the owners to take care of their own landscaping.
That would cut down on assessments and perhaps leave enough meat on the bone for more important matters like cameras
at the entrances with a virtual attendant.

Your Board signed an agreement which should have itemized duties and costs.
Irrigation systems aren’t landscaping.

IMO

LetA (Nevada)
Posts: 2,679

Posted:

The contract was signed with the declarant and the PMC was never changed.

JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265

Posted:

Lets

Are you under declarant control and/or did the declarant sign a contract with the PMC prior to turnover?

LetA (Nevada)
Posts: 2,679

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By JohnC46 on 08/07/2024 2:09 PM
Lets

Are you under declarant control and/or did the declarant sign a contract with the PMC prior to turnover?

Haven't been under declarant control for 12 years, still on the same contract I assume.

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