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WendyM5 (North Carolina)
Posts: 1,522
Posted:
What do you think of the new violation door tag I designed using AI image creation?

cat-hoa-violation-door-tag

back says this:

Dear Property Owner,
We recently inspected our neighborhood & noticed an issue(s) with your property checked off below. Please fix these issues promptly to avoid a $25 or more fine. If the issue is corrected quickly, the HOA can waive up to 75% of the fines. You also have the right to a hearing before any fines are assessed, typically held the 1st Tues. of the month.

[ ] tall grass
[ ] improper storage
[ ] Trash Can visible
[ ] weeds
[ ] car parked on grass
[ ] power-wash siding
[ ] commercial vehicle, rv, boat, etc
[ ] Other
_____________________________________________

For more information on the rules & fine policy, visit our website www.xxxxxxxxxxxxx. Where one can view photos of the violation.
Please resolve the issue within 10 days & send us photos via email/text. If you disagree with the violation or need more time, email us at xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
We’re happy to work with you to resolve this. Join our Virtual Board Meetings via google meets on the 1st Tues (March, June, Sep. & Dec) at 6:45 PM
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Join our Facebook group to stay informed on community matters. https://www.facebook.com/groups/xxxxxxxxx
We appreciate having you as a neighbor and are here to support you.
Best regards, HOA Board of Directors

vis ta vie
WendyM5 (North Carolina)
Posts: 1,522
Posted:
at annual meeting I plan to eat vanilla pudding out of Mayo Jar.

vis ta vie
CathyA3 (Ohio)
Posts: 6,299
Posted:
They rub me the wrong way.

I understand the reasons behind keeping things friendly and informative. But funny messages encourage people not to take things seriously, which undercuts the message. Communications with the membership need to be clear and unambiguous.

Cute cat pictures also strike me as a kind of gaslighting: maybe if we distract everybody with pictures, they'll forget about the power dynamic that's in play. Personally, that offends me more. Not only is it not a level playing field, they think I'm too stupid to figure that out.

JackieB4 (California)
Posts: 398
Posted:
Agree with Cathy, Violations are private; Door hangers aren't.
JackieB4 (California)
Posts: 398
Posted:
Agree with Cathy, Violations are private; Door hangers aren't.
WendyM5 (North Carolina)
Posts: 1,522
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By JackieB4 on 07/25/2024 10:14 AM
Agree with Cathy, Violations are private; Door hangers aren't.

what if we put this in envelope?

vis ta vie
LisaB21 (Texas)
Posts: 97
Posted:
Nope - sorry I agree with others that trying to be cute or funny is not part of noticing someone for a DR violation. Also check your governing documents as our state that DR violation notices must be sent by mail. Not email, not door hangers, but USPS mail.
TerriS6 (California)
Posts: 3,284
Posted:
Public shaming.
KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550
Posted:
Childless Cat People - Unite!
LayaS (Nebraska)
Posts: 249
Posted:
I think you should keep it professional and skip the cat in the notice.
KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550
Posted:
Childless Cat People - Unite!
SheliaH (Indiana)
Posts: 6,964
Posted:
I agree with Layla - this might work as an illustration for an article on the subject in your newsletter or website, but your goal should be for people to take rule enforcement seriously.

Skip the cat photo and put a time/date stamped photo of the violation instead. You should also include a citation of tge rule being violated and rdmi d homeowners as association members, they agreed to comply with the governing documents and community rules when they bought their homes.

You looked for ways AI could help with association management- drafting violation letters would be a great way to use this. Once you develop a good template, you can cut and paste specific words for individual homeowners. AI could also draft an effective article using the cat photo.

If it is not right do not do it; if it is not true do not say it. Marcus Aurelius
SheliaH (Indiana)
Posts: 6,964
Posted:
Whoops- meant LayS.

If it is not right do not do it; if it is not true do not say it. Marcus Aurelius
CathyA3 (Ohio)
Posts: 6,299
Posted:
In some previous threads about AI, I'd mentioned that AI won't do people's thinking for them. It has no idea of what's appropriate, when it's appropriate, or how people will react. It's all bits-and-bytes to AI, stripped of the emotional weight that words carry, and unaware of the legalities unless the developer has trained the AI to operate in that particular arena.

This is why I said that AI doesn't save you work, it just changes the nature of that work. And in many ways it makes more demands on the user. It's an immensely powerful tool in the hands of people who don't understand that power and who will use it as a toy in situations where it isn't warranted. They will get themselves into trouble.

On a tangential note, I really worry about the wholesale adaptation of AI as a search engine. Our consensus of reality is increasingly in the hands of for-profit companies whose goal is to make as much money as possible. None of us has agreed that this should happen - our consent is assumed since we use the products, often without our knowledge that we're doing so. The seeds of the Butlerian Jihad are being sewn. (Dune reference for those who haven't read the books.)
WendyM5 (North Carolina)
Posts: 1,522
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By SheliaH on 07/25/2024 7:49 PM
I agree with Layla - this might work as an illustration for an article on the subject in your newsletter or website, but your goal should be for people to take rule enforcement seriously.

Skip the cat photo and put a time/date stamped photo of the violation instead. You should also include a citation of tge rule being violated and rdmi d homeowners as association members, they agreed to comply with the governing documents and community rules when they bought their homes.

You looked for ways AI could help with association management- drafting violation letters would be a great way to use this. Once you develop a good template, you can cut and paste specific words for individual homeowners. AI could also draft an effective article using the cat photo.

It's actually kind of hard to find a company that can print different images for each house. I found one company that is named after that sticker you put on envelopes to mail them, but mispelled with 2 n's instead of one m. They can supposedly, do it, but the whole point of door tags is that people are aware of the decision right away, when stuff is mailed it takes about a week to get to the person and a common complaint with people that get violations, is they arrive late.

vis ta vie
SheliaH (Indiana)
Posts: 6,964
Posted:
Door tags can fall off or be damaged due to weather, or be tossed and then the homeowner claims he/she never received them.

You need to do this the old fashioned way - send a LETTER via snail mail with the photo, or email IF the owner agreed to accept association correspondence this way and you have a current email address. The homeowner is responsible for notifying the association of any changes and should have the association's email address listed as a safe sender so it doesn't get eaten up by anti-spam software.

One advantage of email is that you can save the emails, which will have the time/date stamp and,, you can usually have the email program send you a confirmation showing the email was delivered successfully. In outlook, it can also send a confirmation that the email was read (tge homeowner has to click on a request for confirmation). The homeowner might blow off the email, but if you've received previous emails from him/her, it would be difficult for them to deny never receiving it.

Personally I prefer snail mail for this - I know the Post Office might get a hiccup in delivery, but you still have a paper trail, which you'll need if this winds up in court.

As for the photos of the violations, you could hire a photographer to do this and get the photos sent to you electronically. They could be saved in the homes permanent file and accompany the letter. It should be in color and you can always instruct the photographer on what not to do, such as no peeking into windows and limit photos to what can be seen from the street or sidewalk leading to the house.

If it is not right do not do it; if it is not true do not say it. Marcus Aurelius
SheliaH (Indiana)
Posts: 6,964
Posted:
One more thing - there are articles on the web about photos of HOA violations and whether you might run into a privacy issue. Contact your association attorney on what you can and can't do.

If there's no state or local regulations on the subject, the attorney can do some research on best practices you can adapt for your community. Adopt the policy via a formal board resolution and notify homeowners with an effective date before you begin using them. Better yet, send the violation letter without the photos to give people a chance to fix the problem. After 30 days or so, the policy will take effect.

Remember, there are homeowners who will squawk at receiving violation notices, regardless of what you do and threaten to sue, even if they really are in violation,. The association needs reasonable and practical policies that will stand up in court and the board must be willing to take it to that level, if necessary. Otherwise, even funny cat photos on door tags won't get you to the original goal - getting people to comply with the rules they're already legally obligated to comply with.

If it is not right do not do it; if it is not true do not say it. Marcus Aurelius
WendyM5 (North Carolina)
Posts: 1,522
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By SheliaH on 07/26/2024 7:38 AM
One more thing - there are articles on the web about photos of HOA violations and whether you might run into a privacy issue. Contact your association attorney on what you can and can't do.

If there's no state or local regulations on the subject, the attorney can do some research on best practices you can adapt for your community. Adopt the policy via a formal board resolution and notify homeowners with an effective date before you begin using them. Better yet, send the violation letter without the photos to give people a chance to fix the problem. After 30 days or so, the policy will take effect.

Remember, there are homeowners who will squawk at receiving violation notices, regardless of what you do and threaten to sue, even if they really are in violation,. The association needs reasonable and practical policies that will stand up in court and the board must be willing to take it to that level, if necessary. Otherwise, even funny cat photos on door tags won't get you to the original goal - getting people to comply with the rules they're already legally obligated to comply with.

Unless you have a certified signed return receipt people can claim they did not open the email (thier roommate or relative, or kid did ) or get the mail either, so that argument doesnt' hold up. Already created a google form that inspectors use to type in street number, click on street name, click on violation and upload a photo using their smart phone which creates a google sheet online and posts autoatically to website for people to view photo with passcode so the technology is all there. We havent' enfored anything since the pandemic(except for one rental house with broken garage door was fined $75) . We mailed out letters, but there was no fines or hearings. the neighborhood would be fine with door tags I think, but we'll see what happens when I put it on the ballot this 'Fall. There is only 3 people who have complained consistently (once or twice a year) that the neighborhood needs more enforcement. They are retired people that bought homes when the neighborhood started 25 years ago and one person doesn't like the cottage flower garden in next door neighbors yard. one was a former board member who did next to nothing.


vis ta vie
WendyM5 (North Carolina)
Posts: 1,522
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By SheliaH on 07/26/2024 7:24 AM
Door tags can fall off or be damaged due to weather, or be tossed and then the homeowner claims he/she never received them.

You need to do this the old fashioned way - send a LETTER via snail mail with the photo.

That's what I already have set up to do if they do not correct the problem after 2 weeks of the door tag notice. I'd estimate 70% of issues are corrected with the first notice, so no point in spending time and resources on people that will automatically comply.

vis ta vie
CathyA3 (Ohio)
Posts: 6,299
Posted:
I'll note that the image may very well be copyrighted, although that particular one looks to be AI-generated. So boards that include graphics in their publications need to pay attention to the sources and stick to the copyright-free stuff.

I read an article yesterday on financial analysts' predictions of a shakeout in the AI companies whose stock prices have reflected the belief that they'd be raking in the dough. Many analysts think that once the companies begin selling AI products rather than providing them for free, copyright owners will begin to sue the companies for all of the infringing materials in AI-generated output. It's one reason why the stock prices of tech companies got hammered recently.

AI is not a toy.
CathyA3 (Ohio)
Posts: 6,299
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By SheliaH on 07/26/2024 7:38 AM
One more thing - there are articles on the web about photos of HOA violations and whether you might run into a privacy issue. Contact your association attorney on what you can and can't do.

If there's no state or local regulations on the subject, the attorney can do some research on best practices you can adapt for your community. Adopt the policy via a formal board resolution and notify homeowners with an effective date before you begin using them. Better yet, send the violation letter without the photos to give people a chance to fix the problem. After 30 days or so, the policy will take effect.

Remember, there are homeowners who will squawk at receiving violation notices, regardless of what you do and threaten to sue, even if they really are in violation,. The association needs reasonable and practical policies that will stand up in court and the board must be willing to take it to that level, if necessary. Otherwise, even funny cat photos on door tags won't get you to the original goal - getting people to comply with the rules they're already legally obligated to comply with.

Adding to Sheila's comment, homeowners are entitled to the HOA version of due process, which is why there are specific steps that an HOA must follow in order to make a fine stick. If the board takes shortcuts, the homeowner has a valid reason to take this to court. And the HOA will lose if they did not follow the proper procedure as outlined in the governing docs and/or state law.

The CC&Rs and bylaws impose legal requirements on the HOA as well as on the owners.
WendyM5 (North Carolina)
Posts: 1,522
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By CathyA3 on 07/27/2024 4:54 AM
Posted By SheliaH on 07/26/2024 7:38 AM
One more thing - there are articles on the web about photos of HOA violations and whether you might run into a privacy issue. Contact your association attorney on what you can and can't do.

If there's no state or local regulations on the subject, the attorney can do some research on best practices you can adapt for your community. Adopt the policy via a formal board resolution and notify homeowners with an effective date before you begin using them. Better yet, send the violation letter without the photos to give people a chance to fix the problem. After 30 days or so, the policy will take effect.

Remember, there are homeowners who will squawk at receiving violation notices, regardless of what you do and threaten to sue, even if they really are in violation,. The association needs reasonable and practical policies that will stand up in court and the board must be willing to take it to that level, if necessary. Otherwise, even funny cat photos on door tags won't get you to the original goal - getting people to comply with the rules they're already legally obligated to comply with.


Adding to Sheila's comment, homeowners are entitled to the HOA version of due process, which is why there are specific steps that an HOA must follow in order to make a fine stick. If the board takes shortcuts, the homeowner has a valid reason to take this to court. And the HOA will lose if they did not follow the proper procedure as outlined in the governing docs and/or state law.

The CC&Rs and bylaws impose legal requirements on the HOA as well as on the owners.

it's not illegal in any state to send out reminders to fix a violation. We could send a violation reminder 20 times if we wanted to. I am well aware of NC laws regarding proper notice before fining for an HOA violation, the max amount, the 10 day grace period, etc.

I did discover that sending out 3 notices to pay the yearly dues works incredibly well. We now only have one person behind on dues, when in the past we averaged 20 to 30.
I am betting doing the same thing with violations will also work well. Most neighbors want to do the right thing they just get busy with other stuff.

vis ta vie

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