Answering Machine Messages

Hi Everyone,

Our condo association is spreading mulch on the property. One of the owners put down rubber mulch in the COMMON AREA in front of his unit (without approval or even asking). The management company sent him a letter asking him to remove it so we can continue the mulch project to achieve a consistant look on the property.

This made him a very unhappy man. He has called myself and our board president leaving somewhat "threatening" messages on our answering machines. "No one better not touch my mulch!". (We haven't.) "I've talked to an attorney and he says I'm going to win in court". "You better get yourselves a good lawyer".

We've not responded to him but will turn it over to our association attorney. The president and I have both tape recorded the messages to take to our attorney. BUT our property manager says we can't do that because he didn't consent to being recorded.

I disagree! Isn't there some law or ruling or something that says, that when someone leaves a message on an answering machine, or voice mail that they're ALREADY consenting to having their message recorded??? That they are well aware their message is being taped? Or did I just dream that?

Thanks everyone!

You are not taping the caller, you are duplicating a tape he has already made. Much like making a xerox copy of a letter sent.

He already has an expectation of being taped, since, well, he left his message on a recording device.

secondly, although you should check your state wiretap laws, they do change, California was the only state that required BOTH parties of a conversation to be aware of the taping. all other states only required one party to be aware of the recording, typically, the party that was recording.

wire tap laws are the laws that cover the recording of conversations between people, regardless of whether they are "covert" or not, done by police or private citizens, etc.. in general, if only one person is aware a conversation is being taped, it is covert, at least to them.

In california, for example, it is illegal to tape a conversation with another person, without telling them. In Kansas, however, you certainly can... YOU know it's being taped, the other party does not have to know.

Oddly enough, many wiretap laws are outdated, and differentiate between VIDEO and AUDIO recording of people.. thus, it is illegal to do one, legal to do the other, etc..

If you truly want to tape a conversation without EITHER party knowing, you need either a court order/warrant, or, you can just do it and claim sanctuary under the Patriot Act (if you are the proper government agency, and toss in the words Freedom and Terrorist here and there).

As always, Donna, good advise. We sent a letter to everyone FIRST stating that we were going to lay the mulch. We were very kind and complimentary in our letter, thanking everyone for their efforts to improve the grounds by planting, etc. Yet we (softly) reminded everyone that the board approved of ONLY flowers being planted, and as a result some people would be asked to move or remove some items--plants, mulch, planters, etc. We even offered to ASSIST them in moving or replanting some items if needed! Man, with some people we just can't win.

BrianB, I think you are not reading the original post thoroughly.

The *recording* is already made -- the gentleman LEFT A MESSAGE ON AN ANSWERING MACHINE.

So, I don't think this is an issue of a wire tap law for guidance.

The association wants to make a duplicate of the original message that was left on the answering machine.

Since the man left it on a recording device, in full awareness that he was being recorded, because he wouldn't have been able to leave a message any other way, then they can duplicate it and maintain a permanent copy of it, or, really, whatever else they need to do with it, just as though it were an email or a letter that was sent.

Ah, okay, I gothchya.

One thing is bugging me, though, from the original post.

Call it a *gut check* but something just doesn't sit well with the response of the PM.

It's an odd position to take, to say the least, that they can't make a copy of the already recorded message.

I'm probably over-reacting, but I'm curious about how and why the PM would give such wonky advice.

Is it even remotely possible that the PM has some relationship with this homeowner, even if it's peripheral in some way?

It just seems a very odd comment.

You can share anything you WANT to share with your attorney - public info is another story although, yeah, if he left the message on a recording device, um....he shoulda figured that out. Also, threatening to sue anyone without actually doing so (as in he already told you you'd better get a good attorney and inferred that he had one) - not a great idea in the eyes of the law and can get him into some trouble.

Bottom line - common area - he didn't get approval and he did something on property not owned by him. Common area wins it for you. Not sure why your manager even said anything, little red flag in my head on your manager there - but that's for you to watch.

Anna,
Chalk one up for the good guys. Just keep going forward and by not having a knee jerk reaction everytime when some of these non complyers go off on a tanget, gets things done without having to get legal services involved. By not overacting to him, sometimes some sense kicks in and they decide not to fight the Board afterall.