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LoriM15 (Florida)
Posts: 1,009
Posted:
We had a meeting with our attorney yesterday to make sure we had all areas of the new rules (Florida HB 1203) that mostly went into effect on July 1. The most interesting part of the meeting was thatour attorney believes this bill was the first step in the legislature taking away almost all control from HOAs to make rules for their communities. She believes more bills will be passed next year also. I have been to two webinars and had this private meeting and I'm still not sure I understand all the implications.

As of now:

1. We can no longer make or enforce any rules for parking of vehicles in driveways. Since they didn't define "personal vehicle" or "work vehicle" and only referred to commercial vehicles (defined in another statute as being over 26,000 lbs. or 3 axles), we can't prohibit any cars, trucks, RVs, or trailers. The only exception is the "vehicle" has to fit in the driveway and can't overhang the sidewalk. It doesn't matter what shape they are in or whether they are clearly commercial.

2. It is questionable if we can make or enforce any existing rules on street parking. In communities with public streets, you can't enforce any overnight parking or other parking rules. We have private streets that are very narrow. We have always prohibited overnight parking because it's difficult for first responder vehicles to navigate the roads at night with cars parked on the street. Our attorney has suggested we pay the county to do a zoning survey and make a determination about street parking in our community based on the width of the roads.

3. We can no longer really enforce any rules with fines or suspension of use of common areas. Our attorney believes the legislature is going to force HOAs to go immediately to dispute resolution or lawsuits. The fining process has been changed so the owner can cure the violation at any time until 30 days after the fine has been set. Or they can cure any time right before the fining hearing, then violate again immediately after. If an owner really wanted to, they could tie up the association every month with the same violation by just curing it right before the meeting and then doing it again. The fine can't be put on the owner's account until 30 days after the "receive" the notice of the fine, so delivery of the notice becomes very important.

4. Architectural rules have to be very, very specific. Every color and style allowed has to be specifically called out. There has to be a list of approved colors with names. We can't ask for a contractor's license but we can ask for the contractor's insurance.

If you are wondering why bother to have an HOA when you can't enforce any rules, I'm beginning to wonder that too.
ElleN (Idaho)
Posts: 4,420
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By LoriM15 on 07/16/2024 11:52 AM
We had a meeting with our attorney yesterday to make sure we had all areas of the new rules (Florida HB 1203) that mostly went into effect on July 1. The most interesting part of the meeting was thatour attorney believes this bill was the first step in the legislature taking away almost all control from HOAs to make rules for their communities.
So a HOA could only enforce that which is expressly and substantively in the covenants?

Interesting.

And in the words of one of my favorite, cheerful free legal clinic attorneys from 15 years ago: "What a mess."
LoriM15 (Florida)
Posts: 1,009
Posted:
Yes. The HOA would be responsible for the maintenance of the common areas and not have any control over individual homes. Right now, we still do have some enforcement capabilities - can't park an RV or a boat or build a shed or anything else in a back yard if it can be seen from an adjacent property, common area or a golf course. And we can still control house colors (we have a specific list of colors) but we need to tighten up our roof standards.

Our attorney has an association that has been in litigation with an owner over a Tesla solar roof he wants to install. The community is all homes in a very Mediterranean style. The Tesla roofs are shiny black and not all of the tiles are solar collectors - some are dummy tiles that look the same. The community can't prohibit the solar collector tiles, but any other roof tile has to be Spanish-style concrete tile. The owner took them to county court and lost. He also lost at the court of appeals. So as of this year there are still some standards that can be enforced.
MarshallT (New York)
Posts: 414
Posted:
I think these new laws will need additional amendments since they are too broad and have created confusion is virtually every Florida HOA. However, your attorney could be correct, too. But there will be pushback if that's the case.
WendyM5 (North Carolina)
Posts: 1,522
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By LoriM15 on 07/16/2024 11:52 AM

If you are wondering why bother to have an HOA when you can't enforce any rules, I'm beginning to wonder that too.

To take care of common areas and only go after the big fish , and not piss away owners money on minor shit would be more overall interpretation. and I'm guessing most owners would agree.
we have a quarter of our neighborhodo that is hawkish about rules , but that means 75% are not and rule by majority is fine.

vis ta vie
TamaraG7 (Florida)
Posts: 35
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By LoriM15 on 07/16/2024 11:52 AM
We had a meeting with our attorney yesterday to make sure we had all areas of the new rules (Florida HB 1203) that mostly went into effect on July 1. The most interesting part of the meeting was thatour attorney believes this bill was the first step in the legislature taking away almost all control from HOAs to make rules for their communities. She believes more bills will be passed next year also. I have been to two webinars and had this private meeting and I'm still not sure I understand all the implications.

As of now:

1. We can no longer make or enforce any rules for parking of vehicles in driveways. Since they didn't define "personal vehicle" or "work vehicle" and only referred to commercial vehicles (defined in another statute as being over 26,000 lbs. or 3 axles), we can't prohibit any cars, trucks, RVs, or trailers. The only exception is the "vehicle" has to fit in the driveway and can't overhang the sidewalk. It doesn't matter what shape they are in or whether they are clearly commercial.

2. It is questionable if we can make or enforce any existing rules on street parking. In communities with public streets, you can't enforce any overnight parking or other parking rules. We have private streets that are very narrow. We have always prohibited overnight parking because it's difficult for first responder vehicles to navigate the roads at night with cars parked on the street. Our attorney has suggested we pay the county to do a zoning survey and make a determination about street parking in our community based on the width of the roads.

3. We can no longer really enforce any rules with fines or suspension of use of common areas. Our attorney believes the legislature is going to force HOAs to go immediately to dispute resolution or lawsuits. The fining process has been changed so the owner can cure the violation at any time until 30 days after the fine has been set. Or they can cure any time right before the fining hearing, then violate again immediately after. If an owner really wanted to, they could tie up the association every month with the same violation by just curing it right before the meeting and then doing it again. The fine can't be put on the owner's account until 30 days after the "receive" the notice of the fine, so delivery of the notice becomes very important.

4. Architectural rules have to be very, very specific. Every color and style allowed has to be specifically called out. There has to be a list of approved colors with names. We can't ask for a contractor's license but we can ask for the contractor's insurance.

If you are wondering why bother to have an HOA when you can't enforce any rules, I'm beginning to wonder that too.

Depends on if your documents have Kaufman language...
KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550
Posted:
What's "Kaufman Language?"

So.... once an owner cures a violation they can violate it agai right away with no penalty? Do your documents, Lori, allow the board make a rule that if a violation of the same rule occurs within x months of the previous violation, the fine will potentially double?
TamaraG7 (Florida)
Posts: 35
Posted:
Kaufman language dictates whether new laws apply to a condominium association.
CathyA3 (Ohio)
Posts: 6,299
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By LoriM15 on 07/16/2024 12:43 PM
Yes. The HOA would be responsible for the maintenance of the common areas and not have any control over individual homes. Right now, we still do have some enforcement capabilities - can't park an RV or a boat or build a shed or anything else in a back yard if it can be seen from an adjacent property, common area or a golf course. And we can still control house colors (we have a specific list of colors) but we need to tighten up our roof standards.
... snip ... .

I boldly predict that the eventual result will be that HOAs will be comparable to non-HOA communities except that HOA owners will have assumed responsibility for things that the local municipality handles elsewhere but without the authority of the municipality. Such a deal.

I wonder what will happen to covenants and restrictions. Right now many CC&Rs give homeowners the right to enforce the provisions themselves via lawsuit. Am I correct to assume that the new law removed this ability? If neither the HOA nor the homeowners can enforce the CC&Rs, and I assume that the local municipality won't do so, does this not essentially invalidate these? And how does this affect the disclosure requirements for real estate transactions?

I'll be curious to see what developers and builders think about this. Do they foresee that this new law will discourage HOA buyers or encourage them? Or have no effect? I suspect it may not have much effect because many people don't visualize how things can play out over time.
KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550
Posted:
But, Lori's #3 above seems to say that HOAs CAN still fine, but owner can wiggle out?No rule can be made to double fines for th same violation in the future?
CathyA3 (Ohio)
Posts: 6,299
Posted:
The ability to do something (in writing) without the authority to enforce that ability means that it doesn't actually exist.

And not being able to ask for a contractor's license?! In Florida?? Home of the roofing/insurance scams??? (Not making fun of Florida, those clowns are in my state as well.)

Ask yourselves how long a for-profit business would remain in business if it were forced to operate under the same constraints as an HOA. That's always been true to some extent, but this is making it worse. Maybe we should quit pretending that HOAs and COAs are anything other than a scheme to enrich developers and builders, with a few juicy bones tossed to the lawyers and dubious trades persons. Buyers should ask themselves exactly what they'll get in exchange for the assessments that they will still need to pay.

(I appear to have gotten up more cynical than usual...)

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