HOA fees vs. Taxes

Welcome Rookie Len,

Good for you on attending some meetings as that is one of the worst problems that Boards encounter, and that is the lack of the membership attending and getting involved in the process of running your HOA.

Is your community gated and are your roads within the community, not running as a city or County roadway? Your lakes almost always are in reality just water/sewer retention ponds and are always the responsibility of the association for care. No, taxes do not take care of property considered as association property. But trash is usually a city/town service. Ours is billed on our property tax bill.

Thanks DonnaS
It's a rather large association with 2400 homes and 17 distinct subdivisons. None are gated communities. While the roads in my subdivision are fine some of the roads in other subdivisons are in terrible shape. As you can guess, road work is an incredible expense. In this case, those in my subdivision are paying for Lake (silt and drainage issues) and road repair for other subdivisions. I know the Lakes are ameneties we all have access to, and I guess I can understand this being our collective responsibility, but improving the lakes will do nothing for my property value.
I just can't understand why counties don't rebate HOA's for the expense they save in NOT maintaining roads/sidewalks, plowing snow, or collecting trash in HOA communities.... and this budget savings get passed on to association members in reduced fees. I heard Jersey has some rebate program for trash.
Hey...I'm one that won't argue about the restrictive covenants and burdensome improvement application process as I believe that improves the integrity of the community, But just can't swallow the fact that I pay taxes for an assessed value that could be identicle to a home directly outside our HOA and they get county services for those taxes that I don't get.
It almost seems illegal.

Ah but Len... Your home in the HOA has added value compared to the identical just outside the HOA. So, you get more for your expenses than they do their taxes, so...

LenM: You have discovered what many buying into a community association do not realize. The term is 'double taxation'. Yes, we as association members are required to pay twice--once in taxes and once through our assessment fee.

This "dasturdly deed" was committed at inception of the community--an agreement between the developer and local municipality officials. The developer promised that he would dedicate certain projects requiring upkeep & maintenance to the community (and not under municipality responsibility) in exchange for certain 'perks'. All legal mind you, but nonetheless nasty for association residents who must fund certain "capital expenses" (ex.; streetlighting, snow removal, road repair & maintenance, curbing). Those living 'outside' the association but in the municipality receive these 'services for free" since they are included in residents' taxes paid. But, alas, we must pay taxes too!!!

Until we start lobbying for some remuneration, same as New Jersey has and succeeded, we will continue to be double-taxed.

Paul,
That's my point. Double dipping. Instead of sitting on the sidelines and complaining, I'm going to start being that squeaky wheel. THX.

Having been born and lived in Maryland for years, as recently as 1968 till l990 and wittnessed the kind of browth experienced around the Baltimore Washington area, I am sure you will find many kindred souls for your logical conclusions Len. However, when you push to pay less, someone else is going to push back and say you elected to live where you live and even elected to sign a contract to that effect.

If your argument is going to prevail and cause changes, your only hope is in how all your legal papers were put together at inception by all the authorities involved. Many times things are done the way they are because someone who didn't know what they were talking about ruled the day and all follow along. With a community your size I imagine this issue has come up more than once. See what you can find in association records and talk to some of the plank owners that were involved in the process.
It is certainly conceivable that your association 15 years ago was a cow pasture and mistakes could have been made regarding road care and things such as trash pickup, especially if your area has been annexed by a city or town.

Only two states that I'm aware of, Massachusetts and New Jersey make some form of acknowledgement of the double taxation by refunding some costs (NJ) that the association covers for the municiplaity (snow removal). In MA its more like town-by-town regarding trash pickup and who should cover that cost.

Unless you're willing to vote for higher local taxes, you're probably going to run into a buzzsaw trying to change the current system. I don't mean stop trying, just understand that when voters started rejecting local tax increases in the late 80's and early 90's, this is how the local governments made up the revenue and they're not likely to give it up easily. Since you moved in with the acceptance of things the way they are (whether you knew or understood it then or not), they will be in no hurry to accommodate any changes. Plan on hearing things like "If we have to start providing services to your community, without a tax hike, we'll have to lay off police and firemen". Figure on ending up being the "bad guy" in the comunity who causes everyone's taxes to go up or services to go down. Politicians gon't play "nice" when you tamper with the money they have to spend. Probably the only way you're going to change this is to elect people from HOAS and condo's to the local government (but then they'll have the same issue - taxes or cuts)

Joe

Joe,
I'm aware that taxes would likely increase if I had my way. Just seems a more equitable way to distribute costs of essential infrastructure services. I fully believe HOA's should budget and pay for the services and amenities it chooses, through it's BOD, to distinguish itself (pools, play areas, parks, ballfields, trails, security) but it is inequitable when the tax dollars of HOA residents do not help to improve their roads, etc. etc etc.
I almost believe their are more HOA developments in my County than Non HOA developments. Might just be a welcome topic. We'll see. I'll be sure to communicate if I make any headway. Thx for your comments.

Joe,
Touché. Just a bit naïve to all this. In the interim, I contacted my board president about this and he believes we may not have adequately tapped into the political action aspect of this issue with the voting public. Like myself, I think that many HOA members may simply not know our taxes do not support our communities public works - in essence, they cover just education. He also thinks we can minimally push for some of the successes New Jersey received with trash services.

Len, Glad you don't have an argument against covenants, afterall, you chose to buy in a HOA when you signed on the dotted line you accepted that burden. Equally, paying assessments to cover the roads etc was part of the commitment when you chose to live in a HOA. Local government could use the same argument some here have done when someone complains about the covenants...you CHOSE to live within that structure with full knowledge, or at least you should have had full knowledge, of the structure.

In our "neck of the woods," HOAs are not required to "maintain" the roads, or sewers, or sidewalks, garbage pickup, etc etc etc, ad nauseum.

However, many HOAs, through a majority push from the residents, decide to take care of their own roads, etc., voluntarily. Why? I dunno. Some residents in our HOA are trying to get us to contract annually for snow removal and garbage pick up. (though garbage pick up is not done by our municipality and not included n our taxes, snow removal is).

One of the reasons they are pushing for snow removal at our HOA level is that our roads are on a hierarchy of roads to be plowed during the winter months.

Certain "graded" (graded as in A class, B class, etc) roads get first priority, other second, and so on.

The roads in our subdivision are at the bottom of the hierarchy. What that means, since we don't have a particularly long or nasty winter/snowy period, often our roads don't get the "plow" until the sun has done its job anyway. Which means that we seldom, if ever, see a county plow.

We have met our homeowners halfway and have put a plowing company on a minimal retainer. IF the snow is deeper than XX-number of inches, we will call up the company and they will come and plow.

We've had to use them only 1 time in 4 years.

Now, that's not good enough for SOME members. They want the roads plowed EVERY SINGLE SNOW.

Even though our budget could not possibly handle that.

We remind them that our taxes already pay for the plows, but they, for some weird reason, couldn't care less. They want the security in knowing that our roads are always snowflake/ice crystal free.

Fortunately, the rest of the residents here disagree.

[smile]