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NancyD5 (Wisconsin)
Posts: 71
Posted:
I am on the Board of a 20 single family condo association. Unlimited common area is defined as the 15" surrounding a unit and everything else is defined as common area. We are in a heavily wooded area and recently hired an arborist to come thru and identify any trees that dead, dying, diseased and are in danger of damaging any unit should they fall. Well he has identified a very large healthy pine tree that has another healthy tree growing right in the middle of it causing severe branch inclusion and is at high risk of falling on the unit should heavy winds come.

My question is, while I know it is the responsibility of the Board to remove all trees that are hazardous to the units, one of our other Board members is concerned that the unit owners are going to very upset that this large beautiful tree needs to be cut down and says maybe we ought to let them sign some sort of waiver that if they don't want the tree cut down and it falls that they will be responsible for all damage costs. I, personally am not sure a member can even legally make make such a waiver since technically they don't own the land or trees that surround their unit. We all as association members own 1/20 of the 7 acre development as a whole not any particular plot of land. Any thoughts would certainly be helpful. Thank you!
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,061
Posted:
This is a board decision.

Liability increases by knowing and choosing not to act on that knowledge (negligence).

If the owner complains, explain that the arborist identified the tree as a risk and the board must act.

You will always get complaints about trees being cut down.
Regardless of the complaints, the board must/should do what is the right thing to do.
LetA (Nevada)
Posts: 2,679
Posted:
Trees are indeed beautiful and an necessary element in our ecosystem, but in the end it comes down to liability.
I don't think your fellow owners would want to bear the brunt of a special assessment to cover damage to the property
that insurance won't cover. Not to mention the other damage trees cause to plumbing and sewers systems.
I would have the tree cut down.

I would consult with an arborist that can guide you on a plan to plant trees that do not have invasive root systems
close to dwellings and will be aesthetically appealing.
ElleN (Idaho)
Posts: 4,420
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By NancyD5 on 06/30/2024 2:23 PM

My question is, while I know it is the responsibility of the Board to remove all trees that are hazardous to the units, one of our other Board members is concerned that the unit owners are going to very upset that this large beautiful tree needs to be cut down and says maybe we ought to let them sign some sort of waiver that if they don't want the tree cut down and it falls that they will be responsible for all damage costs. I, personally am not sure a member can even legally make make such a waiver since technically they don't own the land or trees that surround their unit.
You are correct, though let me fine tune your reasoning.

The covenants are a contract.

This (ill-informed) other director wants to create a second contract. Can the second contract lawfully nullify a part of the first contract? Only if the covenants are amended. Which means only if the association holds an owners' vote that passes the amendment.
SheliaH (Indiana)
Posts: 6,964
Posted:
What Tim said.

We had trouble with tree roots disrupting our sewer lines (between the main line and the point where it enters the townhouse is HOA responsibility) and at $5K per repair that got very expensive. When one house began having foundation issues, we brought in an arborist yo survey tge neighborhood and over the next four years or so, we did heavy pruning and cut down several based on the recommendations,

The lady who lived in the house with the foundation issue wasn't thrilled with her tree going away - she actually stood in front of it when the workers came to remove it. One of our security officers had to talk her down and hit her to take her complaint to the next board meeting. At first her husband said he'd pay for the foundation repair if the tree stayed, but then learned the cost which would rise because the neighbor's house was also at risk. The board decided to let them pick the replacement among the ones the arborist recommended. That made them happy - and then sold the house to their daughter and moved!

Make an announcement about the trees to the community and show them the repair costs, along with summarizing the arborist report. Better yet, post it on the community website so they can read it themselves. They are still be unhappy, but will understand the thinking behind the decision. If they disagree, they can pay for another inspection and present an alternative plan.

If it is not right do not do it; if it is not true do not say it. Marcus Aurelius
KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550
Posted:
With Shlia, permits owns to read the arborist's report.
KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550
Posted:
With Shelia, permit owners to read the arborist's report.
CathyA3 (Ohio)
Posts: 6,299
Posted:
Since falling trees can be a liability for insurance purposes, neither the board nor the homeowners have authority to change the terms that the insurer will live with. T

he only way to do this is through the insurance policy itself, and the person to ask is the insurance agent. I wouldn't be surprised if the insurer says no - too high a risk for future litigation regardless of what people have signed. I guarantee that homeowners will LOVE those trees until they fall and damage the roofs.

I understand the board member's position. It pains deeply me to take down perfectly healthy trees. But the tree in question probably doesn't fit the definition of "perfectly healthy" since it's two trees growing on top of each other. They're probably structurally unsound even though they look healthy to anybody who looks at them.
MichaelS56 (Minnesota)
Posts: 859
Posted:
Our association has about 1100 trees and each year we have an arborist come and review all of the trees and the canopies to make recommendations as to what trees should be removed and what branches should be trimmed. About five years ago we had a windstorm and two trees fell on to a unit and it cost about $9,000 to have the two trees removed. We had to have them lifted over the townhomes.
TerriS6 (California)
Posts: 3,284
Posted:
Covenants are not a contract; they are enforceable equitable servitudes.
TerriS6 (California)
Posts: 3,284
Posted:
Arborists can be paid to write anything. I would get another opinion or ask the first one if the tree can be modified since it's healthy otherwise.
TerriS6 (California)
Posts: 3,284
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By MichaelS56 on 07/01/2024 4:40 AM
Our association has about 1100 trees and each year we have an arborist come and review all of the trees and the canopies to make recommendations as to what trees should be removed and what branches should be trimmed. About five years ago we had a windstorm and two trees fell on to a unit and it cost about $9,000 to have the two trees removed. We had to have them lifted over the townhomes.

So those two trees had not been recommended for removal, it seems. Did your insurance cover it? Thanks.
ElleN (Idaho)
Posts: 4,420
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By TerriS6 on 07/01/2024 7:04 AM
Covenants are not a contract; they are enforceable equitable servitudes.
Uh huh. Same effect.
ElleN (Idaho)
Posts: 4,420
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By ElleN on 07/01/2024 7:26 AM
Posted By TerriS6 on 07/01/2024 7:04 AM
Covenants are not a contract; they are enforceable equitable servitudes.
Uh huh. Same effect.
As well this is state dependent.
TerriS6 (California)
Posts: 3,284
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By ElleN on 07/01/2024 7:26 AM
Posted By TerriS6 on 07/01/2024 7:04 AM
Covenants are not a contract; they are enforceable equitable servitudes.
Uh huh. Same effect.

The effect is what makes them different and why they are prosecuted under different laws.
ElleN (Idaho)
Posts: 4,420
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By TerriS6 on 07/01/2024 1:56 PM

The effect is what makes them different and why they are prosecuted under different laws.
-- They are not "prosecuted."

-- The case law for covenants borrows from the case law for contracts all the time, even in California. This includes claims that a violation of the covenants is a "breach of contract."

For purposes here, the distinction has no purpose.

ElleN (Idaho)
Posts: 4,420
Posted:
Keeping my promise to post (google) AI responses:

Are covenants equitable servitudes?
Covenants and equitable servitudes are both promises between neighboring landowners that restrict land use, but they have some key differences:

Enforcement
Equitable servitudes are enforced by injunction, while covenants are remedied by money damages. Equitable servitudes can also be enforced with specific performance, which can include ordering action to be taken to keep the promise.

Creation
Equitable servitudes are implied by courts and are dependent on circumstances, so they aren't created through a written agreement. Covenants, on the other hand, are contractual obligations that are usually written.

Successive owners
Real covenants can sometimes be enforced against successive owners of the property, but equitable servitudes are not.

Ownership interest
Servitudes are ownership interests in land, while real covenants are promises.


Clear as mud.

The only thing that is important is that in a HOA/COA dispute, one party may take another party to court to enforce a covenant.
TerriS6 (California)
Posts: 3,284
Posted:
This forum does not allow non-human contributions. To enter as a purported human then post a non-human post is maybe a fraud?
TerriS6 (California)
Posts: 3,284
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By ElleN on 07/01/2024 2:05 PM
Posted By TerriS6 on 07/01/2024 1:56 PM

The effect is what makes them different and why they are prosecuted under different laws.
-- They are not "prosecuted."

-- The case law for covenants borrows from the case law for contracts all the time, even in California. This includes claims that a violation of the covenants is a "breach of contract."

For purposes here, the distinction has no purpose.


You are not familiar with California law and cases. Maybe in Idaho but not here.
ElleN (Idaho)
Posts: 4,420
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By TerriS6 on 07/01/2024 7:40 PM
You are not familiar with California law and cases.
Back at you.

Feel free to report the posts where I demonstrate how often AI is wrong.
TerriS6 (California)
Posts: 3,284
Posted:
Robot surrogate.
MarshallT (New York)
Posts: 414
Posted:
Just echoing some responses here, it would indeed be negligent for the board to take such a big risk and leave the tree knowing that it could seriously damage someone's home (an potentially harm a member).

Even if the owner is displeased, the tree is a hazard and must be delt with.

NancyD5 (Wisconsin)
Posts: 71
Posted:
While I feel terrible about this situation the pine tree/trees are like 30" tall and are positioned like 10" from the unit. There would be extensive damage to that unit when one or both of them falls. I had never even thought about what our insurers thoughts would be if we didn't take care of a hazard we have been made aware of.
Thank you all for your insight as it is very much appreciated. We are having a Board meeting on this issue tomorrow and I'm planning to share what I have learned here.
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,061
Posted:
Nancy,

Please keep us posted.

Tim
TerriS6 (California)
Posts: 3,284
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By ElleN on 07/01/2024 8:03 PM
Posted By TerriS6 on 07/01/2024 7:40 PM
You are not familiar with California law and cases.
Back at you.

Feel free to report the posts where I demonstrate how often AI is wrong.

Why would you intentionally post bad advice?
ElleN (Idaho)
Posts: 4,420
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By TerriS6 on 07/03/2024 7:01 AM
Posted By ElleN on 07/01/2024 8:03 PM
Posted By TerriS6 on 07/01/2024 7:40 PM
You are not familiar with California law and cases.
Back at you.

Feel free to report the posts where I demonstrate how often AI is wrong.


Why would you intentionally post bad advice?
Why is it you do not see that I am pointing out that directors should not rely on AI (not one bit)?

JeffT2 (Iowa)
Posts: 880
Posted:
Falling trees can hurt or kill people, even if the people are in their home. You have no choice whatsoever.

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