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MichaelS56 (Minnesota)
Posts: 859
Posted:
I am curious. Did the Florida government pass a law that is requiring older condos to have engineering studies done? Recently I read two articles indicating that individual condo owners were receiving very large Special assessments for maintenance upgrades. If so, is this part of the reaction to the Surfside collapse?
SheliaH (Indiana)
Posts: 6,964
Posted:
Those articles should have prompted you to do more googling - you would have run into articles like this:

https://warrenaverett.com/insights/condominium-requirements/#:~:text=Associations%20existing%20on%20or%20before,at%20least%20every%2010%20years.

Now, does this mean there's a special assessment in your future? Who knows? Has your community been doing regular reserve studies? Is it funding reserves according to the recommendations? Have the common areas been maintained regularly? Have assessment increases kept up with inflation?

If you're not already doing so, start paying attention to your board meetings minutes and attend some meetings to see how your community is going to address this.

If it is not right do not do it; if it is not true do not say it. Marcus Aurelius
ElleN (Idaho)
Posts: 4,420
Posted:
Does Florida require condominium reserves to be funded?

AI answer:
Yes, Florida requires condominium associations to fully fund reserves to make necessary repairs. These new reserve funding requirements were put in place by Senate Bill 4-D in May 2022, in part due to safety concerns following the 2021 Surfside Condo collapse. The law aims to improve the financial stability and safety of multi-story residential properties.

Here are some of the new requirements:

Structural Integrity Reserve Study (SIRS)
All associations must complete a SIRS by December 31, 2024. Budgets adopted on or after January 1, 2025 must use the SIRS to fund structural reserves.

Funding
Reserves must be fully funded based on the estimated costs in the SIRS. Associations can't waive or reduce funding, or use a percentage of funding approach. However, members in buildings with three or more stories can still vote to waive or reduce funding for nonstructural reserve items. The voting threshold for this is a majority of voting interests, which is higher than the previous requirement of a majority of a quorum.

Reserve items
Reserves must cover items such as floors, foundations, fireproofing, plumbing, electrical systems, waterproofing, exterior painting, and windows. They must also cover any other item with a deferred maintenance expense or replacement cost that's more than $10,000.
LoriM15 (Florida)
Posts: 1,009
Posted:
Condominum and co-op buildings less than three stories or less are exempted from SIRS.

As for reserves, it used to be that condos could vote to waive reserve contributions. As of December 31, 2024, associations may no longer waive their reserve contributions. That doesn't mean that the reserves must be fully funded, but the condo has to show that they are on track to collect enough money to pay for items on the reserve study (at a minimum, roofs, painting and pavement) by the end of their remaining useful life.

This is causing problems for a lot of condo associations. One of our condo sub-associations is basically broke because they waived their reserve contributions for so long. They have a loan for insurance payments, a large loan for roof replacement (they didn't even have enough to pay the deductible for the insurance claim), they didn't reserve money for repaving driveways they are responsible for and now they discovered that the board had deferred maintenance on their backflow preventers and most of them are inoperable. The fire marshal is demanding they have to be replaced. They have a huge special assessment coming up, and their monthly assessements are going to skyrocket as they try and catch up on their reserve funding.
ElleN (Idaho)
Posts: 4,420
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By LoriM15 on 06/30/2024 9:30 AM
Condominum and co-op buildings less than three stories or less are exempted from SIRS.
I was wondering if someone was going to suggest that the AI answer is wrong where it says "All associations must complete a SIRS... "

Who is right: LoriM15 or AI?

By my actual (meaning I did not use AI) reading of FS 718, LoriM15 is correct.

Why did AI mess this up? Googling on the subject shows a number of sites that say all condos must have a SIRS done in one sentence, but then subsequently the three story or higher limit is mentioned. I would say these sites are poorly written and as inaccurate as the AI answer.

Garbage in; garbage out.

Worse, I expect my first post (repeating AI garbage) will subsequently reinforce AI's belief that it provided the correct answer.
KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550
Posted:
So.....is it "3 story or higher?" Or, "less than 3 stories?"
LoriM15 (Florida)
Posts: 1,009
Posted:
It's less than three stories. That's the language in the statute.

It would be interesting to know what percentage of the condos in the state are exempted. I have no idea. I think the reason for the exemption is that an elevator is required for buildings that are three stories or more, so they are exempting most non-elevator condos. I suspect the majority of the high rises are in the larger cities on the east coast of Florida (especially Miami-Dade and Broward Counties), but have no idea if that translates into a majority of the condos in the state.
ElleN (Idaho)
Posts: 4,420
Posted:
The "less than" / "three or more than" yada depends on whether the speaker is addressing when a SIRS is not required and when it is required, of course.

In my opinion the reason for the SIRS exemption for less than three stories is political.

Structural failures in two story buildings and even one story buildings certainly can and have killed. It's just that the "pile driver" effect (for one) is less with fewer stories.

I figure politicians were trying to minimize the cost burden to associations but still show their concern about safety. Rightly so in Florida's frequently brutal climate.

As insurance is being flatly denied more and more, I do wonder about how much a role "denial" is playing.

"Everything will be all right in the end. If it is not all right, it is not yet the end."
TamaraG7 (Florida)
Posts: 35
Posted:
If a condominium is two stories with parking underneath, it's considered three stories and if over 30 years requires SIRS and Milestone inspection.
LoriM15 (Florida)
Posts: 1,009
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By TamaraG7 on 07/03/2024 5:26 AM
If a condominium is two stories with parking underneath, it's considered three stories and if over 30 years requires SIRS and Milestone inspection.

That's interesting. I never considered the parking underneath the building. I know many condos in our area near the beach are raised up so there is parking underneath and high water won't reach the residential part.
ElleN (Idaho)
Posts: 4,420
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By TamaraG7 on 07/03/2024 5:26 AM
If a condominium is two stories with parking underneath, it's considered three stories
... pursuant to FS 718, which says a "story" is what the Florida Building Code says. Further it appears that "Lofts and mezzanine levels may be included if defined as a 'story' under the Florida Building Code. Best to have an engineer or architect make that determination." (Quoting some law firm site.)

Quote:
Posted By TamaraG7 on 07/03/2024 5:26 AM
and if over 30 years requires SIRS and Milestone inspection.
This is not what FS 718 says. Associations existing on or before July 1, 2022, and if three "stories" or higher, must have a SIRS and Milestone Inspection by the end of this calendar year, for starters.
KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550
Posted:
Isn't a "story," a "story" no matter what it contains? The words do not "residential story," or, do they?

CathyA3 (Ohio)
Posts: 6,299
Posted:
I don't think there's a consensus of what a "story" is. Could depend on the nature of the land and what's underground.

I know that in parts of the south, the water table is so high that they have "island basements" which are often just enclosed parking areas that are above ground.

In other parts of the country with a lower water table, you can have finished, below-grade basements that are actual living space with drywall, flooring, cabinetry, heating/cooling, etc. Some of these may require sump pumps if the water table is high enough that water can intrude, but a functioning sump pump (often with backup) will keep the finished basement dry.

Anyway, around here a "story" is above-grade space - so we don't count the finished basement even though a ranch home could have half of its finished living area in the basement. Walk-out basements complicate things, since they have at least one wall above grade and the rest below grade.

Aren't you sorry you asked?
KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550
Posted:
Hmmmm. Maybe a "story" has a certain minimum height, say 8 feet above ground?
LoriM15 (Florida)
Posts: 1,009
Posted:
I just read this article regarding HOAs and condos and reserves. There's not enough facts to understand why the board felt they needed such a large assessment, except it implies they didn't have money for new roofs that would be needed in the next few years. The statute is open to interpretation, but I wouldn't want to be on a board where there were no reserves and have to deal with this.

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/entire-florida-homeowners-association-board-100800168.html
SheliaH (Indiana)
Posts: 6,964
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By LoriM15 on 07/08/2024 10:54 AM
I just read this article regarding HOAs and condos and reserves. There's not enough facts to understand why the board felt they needed such a large assessment, except it implies they didn't have money for new roofs that would be needed in the next few years. The statute is open to interpretation, but I wouldn't want to be on a board where there were no reserves and have to deal with this.

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/entire-florida-homeowners-association-board-100800168.html

That part would probably require too much news print - and you need that space for advertising, so there's that. When I took journalism classes 1000 years ago, we were told the headline and the first three paragraphs were what people generally paid attention to before going to something else, thus the need for the inverted pyramid style of writing. There's also the problem of critical thinking not being taught at all in the schools - better to sit in an echo chamber and listen to people rant and rave without offering solutions and blaming everything on marginalized people. Or God (all of them).

Nonetheless, I hope this board realizes up and quitting won’t make the problem go away – if they’d done their job, the owners would have known about the lack of reserves. I don’t know why grown ups can’t ack like it and just tell the truth. It does hurt and people will be angry (who wouldn’t be if told to cough up $60K in a year). I’m also wonder if those same homeowners who came out in droves were the same ones who howe doer assessment increases (you know that had to happen at least once). Someone here once said “play stupid games, win stupid prizes and this is the result of that.

Now these homeowners are going to have to find another group willing to crunch the numbers and then reveal to everyone else how bad things are. I wouldn’t accept $60K at face value unless someone gave me some specifics to review. The longer they put this off, the more they risk $60K increasing to $70K or more.

I really feel sorry for Florida HOAs and fear this will have a ripple effect across the rest of the country, thanks to wildfires out west, floods (also out west and in the south), tornados in my neck of the woods, and between the prices of everything going up, along with insurance, I can understand why some of my relatives said the hell with it and are living in apartments today. They may have to deal with crazy rent increases (one reason why we have an affordable housing crisis now), but dealing with property taxes and what not is someone else’s problem. Until it isn’t

I continue to say transparency and continuing education is everything in a HOA – you are all business partners and everyone needs to understand what’s at stake. At a minimum, bard members need to understand it’s not just about their pocketbook, it’s everyone’s pocketbook. Homeowners have to understand if they want those precious property values to increase, it requires that you take care of the house – it’s a drag to deal with repairs, contractors and all that, but do you really want to deal with leaking roofs to save a few bucks? It’s not pleasant, but I’d rather have people grumble to my face as opposed to springing this type of news on them. Even if you don’t live in a HOA, the insurance issue will hit you sooner or later (because it always does), and your home is still aging and you have to deal with increased costs in maintenances, taxes and all that.

I looked at some of the comments from that article – how many of you co-sign with this one:

I'm on the board of an HOA. More often than not there are more board members at open meetings than residents. Only about 40% bother to vote during board elections and virtually no one outside the board and even some members have no clue about our financial condition because they plain don't care.

As long as the pool and golf course are open, they think everything is fine.

It's very much like the country as a whole, everybody has an opinion but virtually nobody is willing to pay attention, it's easier to just blame the HOA or the government for everything.

Pay attention and vote or shut up!

I’d add reading, attending meetings and asking questions -there are some things I don’t think AI will ever be able to do as well as the human brain, but that’s just me.


If it is not right do not do it; if it is not true do not say it. Marcus Aurelius

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