'Misc' - acceptable Agenda Item in California?

It seems to me that what is needed is verbiage and discussion that will persuade the board and manager to get rid of the "Misc" and so remove any temptation to violate Civ Code 4930.

I suggest you as president put on the next agenda the following:

Motion by Director James to replace "Misc" on future agendas with the phrase "Future agenda topics (not to be discussed or voted on). Note: Civ Code §4930 prohibits the board from discussing or taking 'action on any item at a nonemergency meeting unless the item was placed on the agenda included in the notice that was distributed.' "

Wasn't this discussed in another conversation a few months ago? You keep saying "the old board" - have you discussed this with the new one? If you're on the board, what happened when you pointed this out to your colleagues?

Personally, I don't see a problem with miscellaneous, as long as those items are identified. We have a "for board information" on our management report and that's where those topics go. When I was on the board they weren't discussed at all during the meeting. We also had a "new business" section that we'd discuss at the end of the meeting and we never made decisions on them. Basically, we'd introduce the issue and give instructions on what to do by the next meeting and who was responsible.

I don't know who sets the agenda for your meeting, but it seems you need a few protocols stating if and when miscellaneous should be listed. If people don't want to comply with those instructions, the item won't be discussed. What's so hard about that?

As for homeowner attendance, that's on them to keep track of the subjects being discussed, so if they don't take the initiative to show up and listen for themselves, you can't control that. All you can do is post an accurate agenda, date, time and location of the meeting a week or two in advance. Grown people should be capable of making their own decisions and I find people make the time to address the things they care about.

Ditto for the bulletin boards - after the shenanigans of the last board, are your neighbors still that daft that they haven't taken notice of where they're located so they can check it occasionally? You don't have a website where this stuff can be posted so people have another way to be informed? No one's considered putting up one or two more bulletin boards in other areas of the community to have more coverage? Does someone actually have to point out something this obvious???

Then again, you may be dealing with old fashioned apathy and we all know that's the foundation of crazy boards and chaotic communities. Or it may be people are happy with the board and they will let you know if they're not. For the apathy, you'll need to come up with other ways to address that - it won't be fixed overnight and you'll have to try more than one thing.

It's good to see you continuing to learn about CA HOAs, James. Are you president of this new Board as ElleN suggests? If so, simply instruct your PM to delete that agenda item. There is no reason to use Board meeting time to discuss and vote on whether to follow the law! WHO would vote "no.?" I don't really know what's typical but in my 14 years on our Board the PM & president always worked to gather on the crafting the agenda.

I can see, however, that you'd like owners to notice that your HOA's new Board is much more open than the old bad board, which y'all defeated in an election. By placing the matter on the open meeting agenda, you supply some assurances that THIS Board is doing its best to be transparent.

As you probably know, Davis-Stirling.com provides as least one sample open meeting agenda. They also are easily found online. Agenda items are never long sentences which include motions, etc . If you choose to have the Board vote, this would be an Item under New Biz: "Remove 'Misc.' from Board Meeting Agendas to Comply with Civil Code 4390"

Not only do accurate, legal posted agendas help owners decide whether to attend, they prevent any board members sneaking an item on the agenda, with fully prepared remarks, handouts, etc. supporting this sudden agenda item and thereby blindsiding other directors with such surprise that they cannot think through the topic and ask informed questions. If controversial, owners may not attend to give their opinion in open forum.

Terri's last post is exactly correct in CAlif., where as cited above, in Cal.Civil 4930, ONLY items listed on the agenda --which is required to be posted for owners to review 4 days ahead of open board meetings. So....what's OK for Michael in Minn. & Shelia in Ind. is NOT legal in CA HOAs. Period.*

I recall, James, an item at Davis-stirling.com called "Vague Agendas. You might take a look at it, too.

*As Michael notes above, there are a few exceptions.

** Before CA initiated Civ. 4930 [I think 2008], the remnants of an old evil Board were blindsided by us newly elected "reformers" -- a minority on a board of 7-- a couple of times by 'adding" agenda items AT the meeting with the element of surprise leaving the bad guys flatfooted and ineffective. Our most dramatic was that our contract with our MC requires that the Board choose a director to be liaison with the on-site PM. If no formal choice, the president is automatically the liaison. This keeps the other 6 directors from wandering into the PM's office with random requests, etc. But the prez was new to our HOA and lived about 1/2 time in a city well over an hour away. He was hand-picked by the old bad Board. At a meeting, one of us pointed out the clause in the MC contract and made a strong argument that it's far better if the Board liaison to the PM be a full-time resident who is very familiar with our complicated high rise premises. In a flash, the prez was out and our guy was in. )

I disagree. For certain association meetings and certain topics, the full motion should be placed on the agenda. It's about proper notice. The bigger the stakes, the more important notice is.

I thought of just having the president ram this through. After all, as many here know the president does preside at meetings and so of course should stop any action that violates the law, like this "Misc [non-emergency]" agenda item inviting all manner of lawbreaking. But the signs are to me that some education is needed, of both directors and owners alike. Hence I recommend a motion like what I proposed; an agenda item like I proposed; or similar.

If a board majority is foolish enough to vote against what the law requires here, maybe ask that someone else serve as president.

Our docs call for Annual Meeting, time, place, agenda notice be USPS to each member 30 days before hand. We have no obligation to notify owners of BOD Meetings though we have very few a year and any member is welcome to attend.

ElleN wrote: "...For certain association meetings and certain topics, the full motion should be placed on the agenda. It's about proper notice. The bigger the stakes, the more important notice is." Can you provide a citation for this assertion, Elle?

I've seen dozens of HOA agenda over my 14 years on the Board and 5 years as an interested HOA citizen in my community. These have been organized by two different MCs & tweaked by about 8 different Community Managers/ and about a dozen board presidents. I've also labored in other work contexts for many years where monthly meetings required agendas in advance of the meetings.

There is NO pecking order whereby so-called more important "items of business" contain motions and names of the planned motion maker. These two are NOT "items of business." A good example, which easily satisfies the Calif. notice requirement is

:https://www.davis-stirling.com/HOME/S/Sample-Board-Agenda. Just a portion:

5.  Unfinished Business
    
a.  Balcony repairs
    
b.  Installation of new security gates



6.  New Business
    
a.  Tree trimming (slope areas)
    
b.  Schedule for painting buildings 3, 4 and 5
    
c.  Approve Liens on delinquent owners
  [required in an open board mtg. in CA HOAs -- APN#   is used.]
d.  Review and approve next year's budget
    
e.  Possible change in board officers

I do agree that in James' situation and as noted in my above, to gain the trust of owners in his HOA, having a version similar to mine, also above, on the agenda and sincerely discussed by board members AND voted on could be educational and reassuring for everyone. I. relive Jame has written that some or most directors are new in that role.

Re JohnC's very frequent note about SC NOT requiring notice & agenda to HOA owners of open board meetings. If Montana case law can be used in SC, owners should ask boards to comply. But as JohnC has also pointed out frequently, his Board often meets online and doesn't hold open board meetings. I afssumethey record their decisions in subsequent open board meetings, right, JohnC? Does SC corp. codes require this?? His HOA also is very non-complex with no amenities to speak of. He also always writes "any owner is welcome to attend." But how can any owner ask to attend when they don't know when there IS a Board meeting. I have no idea why JohnC continues to repeat this when a topic is specifically NOT about SC???????

What goes on HOA agendas are "items of Business." The "who" will bring up the "item of business" and "what" that person will motion, blah blah is not an "item." The word agenda, I believe, means "list," not paragraphs.

Why do you object to the sample from seasoned CA HOA attorneys at D-S.com??

You've stated that you've served on one, maybe two HOA boards, both for very short periods of time. One, you've written was maybe a dozen years ago. Did the Board somehow have these agenda with a paragraph about each individual "item." ? Can you show me such a paragraph for a real HOA?

We wont' even touch Robert's Rules....

Ok, you don't like Misc.

Add add recurring items to every agenda.

All landscaping, capital improvement, maintenance, contractor, administrative, and financial issues that the board may need to address.

I do not disagree with such a rule. If SC had it, we would abide by it.

Damn my typos!