SheilaR5 (California)
Posts: 42
Posts: 42
Posted:
Our HOA did not post the 60 day candidate list notice. Ballots will be mailed out next week. I think someone forgot to post it? Now what happens?
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60 day candidate notice
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SheliaH (Indiana)
Posts: 6,964
Posts: 6,964
Posted:
Did you ask the board what happened? Is it possible there weren't any candidates running for a spot?
You could be right someone forgot - or you could have an "accident on purpose" situation. But first, 6ou need to get an explanation and how the board will fix this (maybe the election needs to be pushed back a month?) Read your documents to see what else it says about the election process - this way, you can tell if someone's trying something funky.
You could be right someone forgot - or you could have an "accident on purpose" situation. But first, 6ou need to get an explanation and how the board will fix this (maybe the election needs to be pushed back a month?) Read your documents to see what else it says about the election process - this way, you can tell if someone's trying something funky.
If it is not right do not do it; if it is not true do not say it. Marcus Aurelius
SheilaR5 (California)
Posts: 42
Posts: 42
Posted:
There are 7 candidates running and none are on the current board. I believe they said they thought the election company was supposed to mail out the 60 day notice. I donāt think anyone else has questioned this but me.
TerriS6 (California)
Posts: 3,284
Posts: 3,284
Posted:
You can write to your board and advise of the error. You can contact the Inspector of Elections and advise of the error. They will have to recommence the election from the beginning. Otherwise, if you are not satisfied with the results of the election, anyone can challenge t in small claims court oer civil code 5145 and if the court believes election law was violated, the court is required to void the election.
JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265
Posts: 14,265
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By SheilaR5 on 06/03/2024 4:19 AM
Our HOA did not post the 60 day candidate list notice. Ballots will be mailed out next week. I think someone forgot to post it? Now what happens?
Our HOA did not post the 60 day candidate list notice. Ballots will be mailed out next week. I think someone forgot to post it? Now what happens?
Where does it say 60 days notice is needed?
KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550
Posts: 14,550
Posted:
First, for JohnC & other non-Cali folk: CA Civil Code about HOA elections is very complicated, frustrating and burdensome. And it's fairly new.
Among other requirements, Calif. HOAs must have election rules, which also are complicated and burdensome (I've been seeing 7-9 pages on this forum) Many HOAs do not handle them very well and missing deadlines is common -- going back 105 days to the beginning of this ghastly process.
So, yes, it's true that among other info, the list of candidates* for the Board must be posted for Owners 30 days before secret ballots are sent out (absentee voting is permitted), which is 30 days before the election = 60 days.
Sheila, how many board slots are open? What size is your board? What size is your HOA?
Shelia wrote:" I believe they said they thought the election company was supposed to mail out the 60 day notice." Who is "they," please?
If you have a property manager ask them if the Elect. Co. is supposed to send out this "general notice." And ask when you owners can expect it? If you know any board members or have a way to contact them, ask them. If there's an open board meeting very soon, ask at the open forum.
Your Board made a decision at an open meeting to contract with the Elec. Co. so... the name of the company should be in open meetings minutes. Owners in C do have access to executed contracts. too, so you might w request in writing to your PM or board a copy of the contract to see exactly what their duties are.
Are you running for the Board, Sheila? I'm wondering why this tardiness concerns you. Is it worth it to demand a new election day because the PM or Elec. Co.screwed up? As you know, it would b a huge hassle for the current Board and the PM. Do you think some kind of misconduct by the Board, PM, or Elec. Co will occur???
As a longtime board member who's been through many elections, at the most practical level, I personally would let it be so long as Owners get their ballots with the candidates' names on them 30 days before the annual meeting. That gives every owner a reasonable & long period in which to vote.
If you see signs of cheating or something else, you can challenge the election results with the Board, starting AT the end of the annual Meeting, then in writing to the Board, and then, if need be, proceed to small claims court as Terri advises
* Nominations from the floor can still occur if an HOA's bylaws permit them.
Among other requirements, Calif. HOAs must have election rules, which also are complicated and burdensome (I've been seeing 7-9 pages on this forum) Many HOAs do not handle them very well and missing deadlines is common -- going back 105 days to the beginning of this ghastly process.
So, yes, it's true that among other info, the list of candidates* for the Board must be posted for Owners 30 days before secret ballots are sent out (absentee voting is permitted), which is 30 days before the election = 60 days.
Sheila, how many board slots are open? What size is your board? What size is your HOA?
Shelia wrote:" I believe they said they thought the election company was supposed to mail out the 60 day notice." Who is "they," please?
If you have a property manager ask them if the Elect. Co. is supposed to send out this "general notice." And ask when you owners can expect it? If you know any board members or have a way to contact them, ask them. If there's an open board meeting very soon, ask at the open forum.
Your Board made a decision at an open meeting to contract with the Elec. Co. so... the name of the company should be in open meetings minutes. Owners in C do have access to executed contracts. too, so you might w request in writing to your PM or board a copy of the contract to see exactly what their duties are.
Are you running for the Board, Sheila? I'm wondering why this tardiness concerns you. Is it worth it to demand a new election day because the PM or Elec. Co.screwed up? As you know, it would b a huge hassle for the current Board and the PM. Do you think some kind of misconduct by the Board, PM, or Elec. Co will occur???
As a longtime board member who's been through many elections, at the most practical level, I personally would let it be so long as Owners get their ballots with the candidates' names on them 30 days before the annual meeting. That gives every owner a reasonable & long period in which to vote.
If you see signs of cheating or something else, you can challenge the election results with the Board, starting AT the end of the annual Meeting, then in writing to the Board, and then, if need be, proceed to small claims court as Terri advises
* Nominations from the floor can still occur if an HOA's bylaws permit them.
KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550
Posts: 14,550
Posted:
PS, Sheila, when citing a document showing that the 60 days is required, use your HOA's Election Rules. These in your HOA and all Calif.HOAs had to have been revised in, when? 2020?
JamesB37 (California)
Posts: 351
Posts: 351
Posted:
I agree with Terri.
They need to fix this now (start over) or face the fact that the election could be challenged in small claims and anything the 'illegitmate' directors did in the meantime is probably invalid.
California Law:
Civ Code 5115(a)...Call for Candidates requires 30 days.
Civ Code 5115(b)...Pre-Ballot notice takes 30 days. (list of candidates, date and time of meeting,etc)
Civ Code 5115(c)...Ballot package/vote count takes 30 days (minimum 30 days to vote)
Civ Code 5145:
(a) A member of an association may bring a civil action for declaratory or equitable relief for a violation of this article by the association, including, but not limited to, injunctive relief, restitution, or a combination thereof, within one year of the date that the inspector or inspectors of elections notifies the board and membership of the election results or the cause of action accrues, whichever is later. If a member establishes, by a preponderance of the evidence, that the election procedures of this article, or the adoption of and adherence to rules provided by Article 5 (commencing with Section 4340) of Chapter 3, were not followed, a court shall void any results of the election unless the association establishes, by a preponderance of the evidence, that the associationās noncompliance with this article or the election operating rules did not affect the results of the election. The findings of the court shall be stated in writing as part of the record.
The fact that your HOA didn't notify
5115.
(a) An association shall provide general notice of the procedure and deadline for submitting a nomination at least 30 days before any deadline for submitting a nomination. Individual notice shall be delivered pursuant to Section 4040 if individual notice is requested by a member. This subdivision shall only apply to elections of directors and to recall elections.
(b) For elections of directors and for recall elections, an association shall provide general notice of all of the following at least 30 days before the ballots are distributed:
(1) The date and time by which, and the physical address where, ballots are to be returned by mail or handed to the inspector or inspectors of elections.
(2) The date, time, and location of the meeting at which a quorum will be determined, if the associationās governing documents require a quorum, and at which ballots will be counted.
(3) The list of all candidatesā names that will appear on the ballot.
(4) Individual notice of the above paragraphs shall be delivered pursuant to Section 4040 if individual notice is requested by a member.
(5) If the associationās governing documents require a quorum for election of directors, a statement that the board of directors may call a subsequent meeting at least 20 days after a scheduled election if the required quorum is not reached, at which time the quorum of the membership to elect directors will be 20 percent of the associationās members voting in person, by proxy, or by secret ballot.
(c) Ballots and two preaddressed envelopes with instructions on how to return ballots shall be mailed by first-class mail or delivered by the association to every member not less than 30 days prior to the deadline for voting. In order to preserve confidentiality, a voter may not be identified by name, address, or lot, parcel, or unit number on the ballot. The association shall use as a model those procedures used by California counties for ensuring confidentiality of vote by mail ballots, including all of the following:
(1) The ballot itself is not signed by the voter, but is inserted into an envelope that is sealed. This envelope is inserted into a second envelope that is sealed. In the upper left-hand corner of the second envelope, the voter shall sign the voterās name, indicate the voterās name, and indicate the address or separate interest identifier that entitles the voter to vote.
(2) The second envelope is addressed to the inspector or inspectors of elections, who will be tallying the votes. The envelope may be mailed or delivered by hand to a location specified by the inspector or inspectors of elections. The member may request a receipt for delivery.
They need to fix this now (start over) or face the fact that the election could be challenged in small claims and anything the 'illegitmate' directors did in the meantime is probably invalid.
California Law:
Civ Code 5115(a)...Call for Candidates requires 30 days.
Civ Code 5115(b)...Pre-Ballot notice takes 30 days. (list of candidates, date and time of meeting,etc)
Civ Code 5115(c)...Ballot package/vote count takes 30 days (minimum 30 days to vote)
Civ Code 5145:
(a) A member of an association may bring a civil action for declaratory or equitable relief for a violation of this article by the association, including, but not limited to, injunctive relief, restitution, or a combination thereof, within one year of the date that the inspector or inspectors of elections notifies the board and membership of the election results or the cause of action accrues, whichever is later. If a member establishes, by a preponderance of the evidence, that the election procedures of this article, or the adoption of and adherence to rules provided by Article 5 (commencing with Section 4340) of Chapter 3, were not followed, a court shall void any results of the election unless the association establishes, by a preponderance of the evidence, that the associationās noncompliance with this article or the election operating rules did not affect the results of the election. The findings of the court shall be stated in writing as part of the record.
The fact that your HOA didn't notify
5115.
(a) An association shall provide general notice of the procedure and deadline for submitting a nomination at least 30 days before any deadline for submitting a nomination. Individual notice shall be delivered pursuant to Section 4040 if individual notice is requested by a member. This subdivision shall only apply to elections of directors and to recall elections.
(b) For elections of directors and for recall elections, an association shall provide general notice of all of the following at least 30 days before the ballots are distributed:
(1) The date and time by which, and the physical address where, ballots are to be returned by mail or handed to the inspector or inspectors of elections.
(2) The date, time, and location of the meeting at which a quorum will be determined, if the associationās governing documents require a quorum, and at which ballots will be counted.
(3) The list of all candidatesā names that will appear on the ballot.
(4) Individual notice of the above paragraphs shall be delivered pursuant to Section 4040 if individual notice is requested by a member.
(5) If the associationās governing documents require a quorum for election of directors, a statement that the board of directors may call a subsequent meeting at least 20 days after a scheduled election if the required quorum is not reached, at which time the quorum of the membership to elect directors will be 20 percent of the associationās members voting in person, by proxy, or by secret ballot.
(c) Ballots and two preaddressed envelopes with instructions on how to return ballots shall be mailed by first-class mail or delivered by the association to every member not less than 30 days prior to the deadline for voting. In order to preserve confidentiality, a voter may not be identified by name, address, or lot, parcel, or unit number on the ballot. The association shall use as a model those procedures used by California counties for ensuring confidentiality of vote by mail ballots, including all of the following:
(1) The ballot itself is not signed by the voter, but is inserted into an envelope that is sealed. This envelope is inserted into a second envelope that is sealed. In the upper left-hand corner of the second envelope, the voter shall sign the voterās name, indicate the voterās name, and indicate the address or separate interest identifier that entitles the voter to vote.
(2) The second envelope is addressed to the inspector or inspectors of elections, who will be tallying the votes. The envelope may be mailed or delivered by hand to a location specified by the inspector or inspectors of elections. The member may request a receipt for delivery.
TerriS6 (California)
Posts: 3,284
Posts: 3,284
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By JohnC46 on 06/03/2024 10:32 AM
Posted By SheilaR5 on 06/03/2024 4:19 AM
Our HOA did not post the 60 day candidate list notice. Ballots will be mailed out next week. I think someone forgot to post it? Now what happens?
Our HOA did not post the 60 day candidate list notice. Ballots will be mailed out next week. I think someone forgot to post it? Now what happens?
Where does it say 60 days notice is needed?
CACivil Code Sec 5115.(a)
JamesB37 (California)
Posts: 351
Posts: 351
Posted:
Please disregard my typo's and sentence fragments that I forgot to delete - I forget this forum doesn't allow edits
KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550
Posts: 14,550
Posted:
Oh, I completely agreed, jamesB, that the election procedure has NOT been handled legally.
And, my own HOA in 2021,, when I was on the Board, was advised postpone the election for about 3 weeks because some deadline had NOT been met. It was our very experienced HOA attorney's advice to postpone vs. .start over. But in our case, the error was caught long before ballots were sent out.
In Sheilas HOA, the ballots will be sent out very soon. Here's one of my concerns about starting the whole 105-day process over again: What IF the current Board as with your old one and as with Terri' is really awful. This election delay gives them even more time to be horrible. I'd sure like to hear more form Sheila!
The other side of that coin is what harm is done to voters if they still have 30 days to vote??
Second, if the first several steps were done legally, why start over at the very beginning?? This Board should definitely seek the advice of their HOA counsel, but it doesn't look like Sheila has access.
I still feel that since all owners will have 30 days to cast their ballots by mail or in person at a delivery spot chosen by the Inspectors (the Election Company), AND if everything else is done correctly to the letter, I do NOT see how starting over is of any benefit whatsoever to Sheila's HOA or to anyone in it. It most. certainly will cause confusion. How does that benefit voters?
If Sheila is worried about cheating and sleazy crap, she, and, one hopes, a few others should scrutinize every step. They should watch that the tabulation of ballots I done as required by law. If they see ANYthing illegal, they should take photos and THEN pursue a correction etc. with the New board and HOA counsel. IF THAT fails, sure, small claims court it is.
And, my own HOA in 2021,, when I was on the Board, was advised postpone the election for about 3 weeks because some deadline had NOT been met. It was our very experienced HOA attorney's advice to postpone vs. .start over. But in our case, the error was caught long before ballots were sent out.
In Sheilas HOA, the ballots will be sent out very soon. Here's one of my concerns about starting the whole 105-day process over again: What IF the current Board as with your old one and as with Terri' is really awful. This election delay gives them even more time to be horrible. I'd sure like to hear more form Sheila!
The other side of that coin is what harm is done to voters if they still have 30 days to vote??
Second, if the first several steps were done legally, why start over at the very beginning?? This Board should definitely seek the advice of their HOA counsel, but it doesn't look like Sheila has access.
I still feel that since all owners will have 30 days to cast their ballots by mail or in person at a delivery spot chosen by the Inspectors (the Election Company), AND if everything else is done correctly to the letter, I do NOT see how starting over is of any benefit whatsoever to Sheila's HOA or to anyone in it. It most. certainly will cause confusion. How does that benefit voters?
If Sheila is worried about cheating and sleazy crap, she, and, one hopes, a few others should scrutinize every step. They should watch that the tabulation of ballots I done as required by law. If they see ANYthing illegal, they should take photos and THEN pursue a correction etc. with the New board and HOA counsel. IF THAT fails, sure, small claims court it is.
SheilaR5 (California)
Posts: 42
Posts: 42
Posted:
There are 5 open spots and 7 running. I am not running. I am not worried about it but my neighbor that is running is concerned that the 60 candidate list notice never got posted nor mailed.
SheilaR5 (California)
Posts: 42
Posts: 42
Posted:
I absolutely agree that it is NOT worth it to start over! None of the current board members are running again.
JamesB37 (California)
Posts: 351
Posts: 351
Posted:
It appears that you have completed the first 30 day requirement - call for candidates. The next step is the pre-ballot notice which requires:
1) The date and time by which, and the physical address where, ballots are to be returned by mail or handed to the inspector or inspectors of elections.
(2) The date, time, and location of the meeting at which a quorum will be determined, if the associationās governing documents require a quorum, and at which ballots will be counted.
(3) The list of all candidatesā names that will appear on the ballot.
(4) Individual notice of the above paragraphs shall be delivered pursuant to Section 4040 if individual notice is requested by a member.
(5) If the associationās governing documents require a quorum for election of directors, a statement that the board of directors may call a subsequent meeting at least 20 days after a scheduled election if the required quorum is not reached, at which time the quorum of the membership to elect directors will be 20 percent of the associationās members voting in person, by proxy, or by secret ballot.
So perhaps instead of starting completely over, hold what you got and mail out the 60 day notice and go from there? You will save 30 some days in the process.
You have 7 people running for 5 slots. You are already aware that one person who is one of the candidates is 'concerned'. How is he going to feel if he loses? All it takes is $30 to file the small claims case and $50 to have the Sheriff serve the papers.
Simple question: Sheila, do you think your Association is in compliance with the "an association shall provide" the (5) things I listed above per Civ CodeĀ§ 5115: yes/no? (SHALL is a very strong word in the legal community)
1) The date and time by which, and the physical address where, ballots are to be returned by mail or handed to the inspector or inspectors of elections.
(2) The date, time, and location of the meeting at which a quorum will be determined, if the associationās governing documents require a quorum, and at which ballots will be counted.
(3) The list of all candidatesā names that will appear on the ballot.
(4) Individual notice of the above paragraphs shall be delivered pursuant to Section 4040 if individual notice is requested by a member.
(5) If the associationās governing documents require a quorum for election of directors, a statement that the board of directors may call a subsequent meeting at least 20 days after a scheduled election if the required quorum is not reached, at which time the quorum of the membership to elect directors will be 20 percent of the associationās members voting in person, by proxy, or by secret ballot.
So perhaps instead of starting completely over, hold what you got and mail out the 60 day notice and go from there? You will save 30 some days in the process.
You have 7 people running for 5 slots. You are already aware that one person who is one of the candidates is 'concerned'. How is he going to feel if he loses? All it takes is $30 to file the small claims case and $50 to have the Sheriff serve the papers.
Simple question: Sheila, do you think your Association is in compliance with the "an association shall provide" the (5) things I listed above per Civ CodeĀ§ 5115: yes/no? (SHALL is a very strong word in the legal community)
KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550
Posts: 14,550
Posted:
In the cases of both JamesB & of Terri, those with power (a phony board and a real Board, that's still in power) violated several state statutes over a period of time. these owners suffered a long cairn of abuses. Some were very important statutes, e.g., refusal to provide open meeting minutes to an owner; refusing to count ballots where Owners can observe, refusing to abide by the Inspectors of election (elec.Co). public announcement of election winners at an annual meeting, and much, much more.
Terri has never served on an HOA Board and JamesB is brand new.
In Sheila's case, one Civ. Code legal deadline was missed. To me, the ONLY item of importance to have been sent out with that required "pre-ballot" notice was that it gives everyone the chance to make sure all candidates are qualified to serve. The only state requirement is that the candidate be an owner of record, i.e., on the deed. In addition there is a small handful of other optional requirements that might be in Sheila's Bylaws or the state-required HOA's election rules.
If I were Sheila's neighbor, I would only be concerned that all candidates are legit.* My advice is for Sheila or Sheila's neighbor to write a polite note to the PM and Elec. Co. asking that since the pre-ballot notice didn't come to owners, that the writer be reassured that all candidates are qualified. This, again, depends on how much power the Elec. Co. (inspectors of election) have i.e., WHO can answer this question.
From much Board experience and from reading many accounts here, IF the current Board is a lousy one and IF some of their buddies are running in the election, Sheila's neighbor could pay a nasty price if she raises a fuss about the missing deadline.
To repeat my above, Sheila & her neighbor need to keep very close watch on the remainder of the election process. They need to be very familiar with their Election Rules.
A poster who's been silent for a few weeks seems to be a CAlif. Mgmt. Co. owner, who also provides inspector of election services. This very experienced Cali person has noted that many CA HOAs still do not have election rules and still do not follow the 2020 legislation with all of its 105-day start of an election procedure & deadlines.
As a now-board member, James needs to ask himself, given his legal duty of loyalty to his community: Would taking this missed deadline issue --common in Calif.--to small claims court benefit my community overall? Voters, in particular?
*. James' trials & tribulation can be found in posting of late May & early June (I think?) of this year.
Terri has never served on an HOA Board and JamesB is brand new.
In Sheila's case, one Civ. Code legal deadline was missed. To me, the ONLY item of importance to have been sent out with that required "pre-ballot" notice was that it gives everyone the chance to make sure all candidates are qualified to serve. The only state requirement is that the candidate be an owner of record, i.e., on the deed. In addition there is a small handful of other optional requirements that might be in Sheila's Bylaws or the state-required HOA's election rules.
If I were Sheila's neighbor, I would only be concerned that all candidates are legit.* My advice is for Sheila or Sheila's neighbor to write a polite note to the PM and Elec. Co. asking that since the pre-ballot notice didn't come to owners, that the writer be reassured that all candidates are qualified. This, again, depends on how much power the Elec. Co. (inspectors of election) have i.e., WHO can answer this question.
From much Board experience and from reading many accounts here, IF the current Board is a lousy one and IF some of their buddies are running in the election, Sheila's neighbor could pay a nasty price if she raises a fuss about the missing deadline.
To repeat my above, Sheila & her neighbor need to keep very close watch on the remainder of the election process. They need to be very familiar with their Election Rules.
A poster who's been silent for a few weeks seems to be a CAlif. Mgmt. Co. owner, who also provides inspector of election services. This very experienced Cali person has noted that many CA HOAs still do not have election rules and still do not follow the 2020 legislation with all of its 105-day start of an election procedure & deadlines.
As a now-board member, James needs to ask himself, given his legal duty of loyalty to his community: Would taking this missed deadline issue --common in Calif.--to small claims court benefit my community overall? Voters, in particular?
*. James' trials & tribulation can be found in posting of late May & early June (I think?) of this year.
KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550
Posts: 14,550
Posted:
Correction: My 2nd line above should read "long train of abues."
KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550
Posts: 14,550
Posted:
Jeez-- of "abuses." I should be locked up for try long train of typos.
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