Notice of Meeting and Agenda

Started by LmT • 11 replies • 259 views

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LmT (California)
Posts: 237

Posted:

Our meeting is at 9:00 a.m. on Monday, June 3rd.

Our manager prepares the Notice and Agenda and posts it on our Notice Board (as required in our By-Laws). One of the Admin posts it to our website and it also goes out by email blast.

The Davis -Stirling Act requires at least four days notice of a meeting. My interpretation is that the notice should be posted to the notice board no later than 9.00 a.m. the previous Thursday (today).

I just received a message from our manager telling me it would be prepared by the end of today (therefore, it will not appear on the notice board until either she puts it there or I put it there tonight or in the morning - Friday).

Are we in violation of the required notice to members of a board meeting?

SheliaH (Indiana)
Posts: 6,964

Posted:

Does the rule specify how the notice is to be made (e.g. does it have to be posted on a flyer on a bulliten board in the middle of the community?) Must a flyer be stuck in everyone's door? You can't stick it in mailboxes because that's reserved for mail that has the proper postage attached.

It seems to me that if you have a website, you could post it today, and use email blasts. As for the agenda, could you publish a draft, identify it as such, and get the final to homeowners tomorrow? I would hope people wouldn't quibble over a day, but b if they do, apologize and make sure it doesn't happen again. People aren't perfect.

All of that said, you could save yourselves a lot of grief by scheduling the mooting at the same time every month (e.g. third Monday of the month at the clubhouse, 6 pm). You should also give yourselves a deadline to finalize the agenda and post the notices yourselves to ensure it's done, if necessary. Find out happened this time - if the property manager was disorganized, that's a problem. Then again, he or she may have had an emergency (shit happens to us all and sh I wing a little empathy is a vurtue).

If it was delayed because a board member or two didn't provide pertinent information that was to be part of the agenda, you and your colleagues need to fix that.

If it is not right do not do it; if it is not true do not say it. Marcus Aurelius

KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550

Posted:

This. notice is of an open board meeting vs.an executive session board meeting or an Emergency Meeting, right, LmT?

As you know. 4 days notice AND the full agenda of open board meetings are required to, at minimum, be posted in a public place in CA HOAs. So, yes, 9am today was when it should have been posted legally.

Nowadays, I'd think most HOAs would send the notice via eblast as our PM does. . How do your offsite owners get meeting/agenda notices??

In my HOA, I doubt there'd be any fuss. BUT you've written previously about two owners who snipe at everything, want change, always. criticize, etc. I believe they are attorneys. IF they're still being total pains, I'd be very concerned that they'd make trouble for your Board for "breaking the law."

But only you/your Board know how they are lately. If you think they won't carry on, post ASAP today. If you DO think they'll give you problems,I have to advise that you postpone the meeting so that you can provide legal notice & the agenda 96 hours in advance.

With Shelia, If the PM or a board member has caused this delay, they should be brought to church in an ex executive session meeting perhaps abut the importance of following Cali laws.

LmT (California)
Posts: 237

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By SheliaH on 05/30/2024 2:27 PM
Does the rule specify how the notice is to be made (e.g. does it have to be posted on a flyer on a bulliten board in the middle of the community?) Must a flyer be stuck in everyone's door? You can't stick it in mailboxes because that's reserved for mail that has the proper postage attached.

It seems to me that if you have a website, you could post it today, and use email blasts. As for the agenda, could you publish a draft, identify it as such, and get the final to homeowners tomorrow? I would hope people wouldn't quibble over a day, but b if they do, apologize and make sure it doesn't happen again. People aren't perfect.

All of that said, you could save yourselves a lot of grief by scheduling the mooting at the same time every month (e.g. third Monday of the month at the clubhouse, 6 pm). You should also give yourselves a deadline to finalize the agenda and post the notices yourselves to ensure it's done, if necessary. Find out happened this time - if the property manager was disorganized, that's a problem. Then again, he or she may have had an emergency (shit happens to us all and sh I wing a little empathy is a vurtue).

If it was delayed because a board member or two didn't provide pertinent information that was to be part of the agenda, you and your colleagues need to fix that.

As I stated in my post, our By-Laws require we post notices on the community bulletin board. Our Annual Mailing reiterates that. However, to ensure everyone who wants to attend, knows about the meeting we post on the website and send an email blast.

I stated all of this in my original post.

We are still holding zoom meetings so those who do not live on site still like to attend.

LmT (California)
Posts: 237

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By KerryL1 on 05/30/2024 4:56 PM
This. notice is of an open board meeting vs.an executive session board meeting or an Emergency Meeting, right, LmT?

As you know. 4 days notice AND the full agenda of open board meetings are required to, at minimum, be posted in a public place in CA HOAs. So, yes, 9am today was when it should have been posted legally.

Nowadays, I'd think most HOAs would send the notice via eblast as our PM does. . How do your offsite owners get meeting/agenda notices??

In my HOA, I doubt there'd be any fuss. BUT you've written previously about two owners who snipe at everything, want change, always. criticize, etc. I believe they are attorneys. IF they're still being total pains, I'd be very concerned that they'd make trouble for your Board for "breaking the law."

But only you/your Board know how they are lately. If you think they won't carry on, post ASAP today. If you DO think they'll give you problems,I have to advise that you postpone the meeting so that you can provide legal notice & the agenda 96 hours in advance.

With Shelia, If the PM or a board member has caused this delay, they should be brought to church in an ex executive session meeting perhaps abut the importance of following Cali laws.

Thank you Kerry. Our manager frequently misses the deadline and it is noticed by homeowners who wish to attend the meetings and don't find out in good time. Many of them have served on this board of directors and are familiar with the Davis-Stirling Act.

I really wanted to clarify that it should be 96 hours rather than the day of posting (Friday), two more days (Saturday and Sunday) and then the day of the meeting (Monday) which is how I believe our manager feels she can explain the late announcement. I'm not even sure if Sunday or a holiday is acceptable (but I'm willing to overlook that).

I usually try to cover for us and will run down to the notice board (if I am in town) print the notice and post it but it's becoming a problem as we do not get our board packets until late and don't always have sufficient time to digest them. BTW I am the Secretary.

This isn't because of a board member caused the delay. Our president has a timeline for material to be submitted prior to the meeting but our manager completely ignores this - we will be hiring a new manager soon as this can't go on.

KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550

Posted:

Sorry I missed your words that your PM does send out e-blasts & posts on the website. We still do Zoom too. Yes, it really is 96 hours for notice & agenda to be posted at your HOA.

I'd be REALLY annoyed too if the PM cannot get their act together to get board packets to you directors enough time in advance so that you all can read & digest the materials. Their sloppiness can cause your directors to be less well-informed. And, remember, the Board is responsible/liable for the MC to follow the state laws.

Our Board meets the last Tues. of the month, 6pm, and gets their meeting materials by the Friday before at the latest--usually Thursday.

Btw, If interested, LmT, I'm going to try to post the contact info for an insur. co. that might provide your owners with homeowners ins. I don't know how it is in your SFH HOA, but some homeowners in our Multi-story condo bldg. are not able to get their current ins. renewed

RileyS (California)
Posts: 55

Posted:

California has a law for that!

Civ Code §10
The time in which any act provided by law is to be done is computed by excluding
the first day and including the last, unless the last day is a holiday, and then it is also
excluded.

and here is a blurb from the D-S.com website:
Since the statute is worded in days, not hours, a notice is in compliance if it is posted one day and the meeting is held anytime x number of days later, even if the time period is short by a few hours.

Thursday = 0 (day of service, not counted/excluded)
Friday = 1
Saturday = 2
Sunday = 3
M 4 (included)

The final day counts, its days, not hours. Monday is the 4th day. (Doesn't matter what time of the day the notice is posted or the time of the meeting)

RileyS (California)
Posts: 55

Posted:

I forgot the link to the D-S website

Almost to the bottom of the page "How to Calculate Notice Requirements."
https://www.davis-stirling.com/HOME/E/Notice-Document-Delivery

LmT (California)
Posts: 237

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By RileyS on 05/30/2024 10:14 PM
California has a law for that!

Civ Code §10
The time in which any act provided by law is to be done is computed by excluding
the first day and including the last, unless the last day is a holiday, and then it is also
excluded.

and here is a blurb from the D-S.com website:
Since the statute is worded in days, not hours, a notice is in compliance if it is posted one day and the meeting is held anytime x number of days later, even if the time period is short by a few hours.

Thursday = 0 (day of service, not counted/excluded)
Friday = 1
Saturday = 2
Sunday = 3
M 4 (included)

The final day counts, its days, not hours. Monday is the 4th day. (Doesn't matter what time of the day the notice is posted or the time of the meeting)

Thank you for this information. I had seen it at one time but couldn’t find it again.

I do notice that Sunday is considered a holiday.

RileyS (California)
Posts: 55

Posted:

Yes, but that should only be a concern if it is the last day.

State holidays are listed in Government Code §6700
https://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/faces/codes_displaySection.xhtml?secti6700.&lawCode=GOV

(I wouldn't have thought that Sunday was considered a 'legal holiday' either before I read this section)

6700.
(a) The holidays in this state are:
(1) Every Sunday.
(2) January 1.
(3) The third Monday in January, known as “Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr. Day.”
(4) The date corresponding with the second new moon following the winter solstice, or the third new moon following the winter solstice should an intercalary month intervene, known as “Lunar New Year.”
(5) February 12, known as “Lincoln Day.”
(6) The third Monday in February.
(7) March 31, known as “Cesar Chavez Day.”
(8) April 24, known as “Genocide Remembrance Day.”
(9) The last Monday in May.
(10) June 19, known as “Juneteenth.”
(11) July 4.
(12) The first Monday in September.
(13) September 9, known as “Admission Day.”
(14) The fourth Friday in September, known as “Native American Day.”
(15) The second Monday in October, known as “Columbus Day.”
(16) November 11, known as “Veterans Day.”
(17) December 25.
(18) Good Friday from 12 noon until 3 p.m.
(19) (A) Every day appointed by the President or Governor for a public fast, thanksgiving, or holiday.

KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550

Posted:

Thanks for the research, Riley! Into, now remember reading that entry at D-S.com.. But our HOA is so strict with complying the "wrong" (96 hours) way that I simply ignored/forgot about it.

It seems odd though that day 4 of the required posting is Monday --- when the open meeting is Monday at 9am. The 4th day of the posting is worthless. The posting only is useful for 3 days???

RileyS (California)
Posts: 55

Posted:

you are right, if you count hours, you can come up short depending on the times involved

But it is DAYS. You basically just add 1 day to the legal requirement, unless there is a holiday involved on the last day

Thursday 10 PM = 0
Friday 10 PM = 1 24 hours
Saturday 10 PM = 2 48 hours
Sunday 10 PM = 3 72 hours
Monday 10 AM = 4 days 84 hours

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