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KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550
Posted:

Our HOA comprises a urban square city block. One street’s 15-foot wide sidewalk is at the bottom of a few steps with a railing to a big landing where the fob entry device is to the large lobby of my tower.

My spouse was contacting Uber to go to the airport on or May 6 anniversary. I leaned against the steps’ railing, spouse went in the lobby for better phone reception. Our lone wheel aboard luggage piece set about 5 feet away from me. Suddenly two loud, seemingly drug-high men lurched toward me from the north on the sidewalk about 8 feet apart yelling in slurred ways to each other. Having a $600 item slung over my shoulder (not across my chest), that looked like a large purse, I immediately worried they’d try to steal it and moved closer to the doors & fob-entry phone.

One grabbed the suitcase and they ran off! One’s good facial pic was captured on a monitor. All our clothes, meds & chargers were gone for a family reunion in Oregon. Our devices & important docs were in a briefcase with my partner. We did make our plane.

We’ve never experienced any criminal episodes in 19+ years of living in this setting and walking freely to the grocers less than 2 blocks away, and to numerous other needs, restos, & entertainment.

My question: The incident has not been shared with any residents by the officers or PM & his assistant. Do you think the Board or PM should let residents know about this incident? On one hand, I’d hate to see some older residents, for instance, becoming afraid to bring their full shopping carts from the nearby grocers or carrying other retail items-- one of the high perks of living in our 'hood. On the other, perhaps, some may have become complacent about their safety and aren’t as alert as they should be.

Or, maybe there can be an article in our newsletter with tips about avoiding this type of crime without saying one actually happened? Thoughts about what's best for my community?
MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836
Posted:
Why is it an HOA matter? Why can you not just tell it? Did you want it in the newsletter as a story? There is no reason for the HOA to be involved if it is personal situation. It just happened on or near the HOA.

We had a guy expose himself at our pool. Kids were around but did not see. I was there but did not see the exposure but did see the woman leave. Also he had a history of exposure in other situations.

I just went and told members to watch out for this guy. Let the men know do not leave women alone with him. The police were called. I encouraged others to do the same.

Nothing stops you from saying be careful.

Former HOA President
NA1 (Massachusetts)
Posts: 190
Posted:
Did you report it to the police?
TerriS6 (California)
Posts: 3,284
Posted:
Absolutely let them know. In addition to caring about your neighbors, the HOA has a duty of care to protect its members from foreseeable crime.
TerriS6 (California)
Posts: 3,284
Posted:
I would think giving notice about the event would be taking reasonable steps to help members avoid being the victims of criminal activity per Frances T. v. Village Green.
https://scocal.stanford.edu/opinion/frances-t-v-village-green-owners-assn-28425
SheliaH (Indiana)
Posts: 6,964
Posted:
I think a general article in your newsletter and community website (not naming names) shoukd suffice. You'll want to start with the following:

Be aware of your surroundings at all times. Trust your instincts when you see peopke acting strange, but remember even seemingly "normal" peopls can lull you into a false sense of security,

Let the property manager know if you see unfamiliar cars, people, etc., who've begun hanging around tge building doors, parking lots, etc.

You can get other tips from police on what to do if you're confronted- generally, it's best to let them have the luggage, groceries, etc. Those can be replaced, but you dontcwant to risk serious injury or death. I know lots of peopke talk about carrying guns for protection and that can be useful, but folks also forget the bad guys are also packing and may be faster than you and have a better aim.

I'm sorry this happened to you, but it's great that you're thinking of your neighbors. Be sure you've contacted your banks and whoever issued the important documents. It wouldn't hurt to contact the credit reporting agencies to put a fraud alert on your account in case your SSN was listed on those papers. I believe you only need to contact one and tye information will be forwarded to the other two. Fir those of you who don't know who they are, they're Trans Union, Equifax and Experian.

If it is not right do not do it; if it is not true do not say it. Marcus Aurelius
KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550
Posted:
I'm happy to see some thoughtful replies. Keep 'em coming.

For now, I'm sorry that I must have written unclearly, Shelia: My partner had the briefcase & it wasn't stolen. So our passports, credit cards, laptops & my phone were not stolen. Stolen was clothes, device chargers, toiletries & meds.

Yes, we filed a police report and they hav a great pic of the guy with our suitcase.
BillD16 (Texas)
Posts: 971
Posted:
I'm extremely unhappy that this happened to you. But I'm glad that no-one was injured.

I suspect that your Board / PM may not want to share what happened without first obtaining your permission, even if they don't mention names.

I can see that the news might alarm some people, but IMHO "forewarned is forearmed".

My neighborhood is in something of a similar position: it's generally considered "safe" but over the past couple of years we've had a number of 'incidents'.

It's possible that the police will actually catch these bums{0} - which would be a nice Happy Ending to share with your building.

The question I still struggle with is: when are these kinds of incidents genuinely statistically significant? Let's say there are 3 more such incidents in the next 6 months. Some people may see this as a sign of general decline in the area. But is that actually *true*? (A similar question: an HOA Board enacts a policy for a community of 1000 members. They receive 2 email complaints and 2 phone call complaints. How seriously should the Board take those complaints? Ie: are the 4 complainers "in the noise"? Or do they represent a significant portion of the community?)

Sorry to go down the rabbithole. If it were me, I'd want to share at least some awareness of the situation in hopes that it will alert your neighbors. One message to consider sharing is that people shouldn't be timid about calling 911 when they see something suspicious. I'll spare you my rant on the topic but it makes me extremely upset when people get confused "should I call 311 or 911?" (and often end up doing nothing).

Bill

{0} It *does* happen. I may have even posted here about it - some idiots ripped off some mailboxes at a local neighborhood, there was some amazingly good video of the incident, a cop saw it and immediately recognized the perps, went to their apartment and arrested them.

HOA Board ex-President
Austin, Texas USA

“You can’t put too much water in a nuclear reactor”
LayaS (Nebraska)
Posts: 249
Posted:
Kerry,

I'm so sorry this happened to you. I'm glad you and your spouse did not get hurt. I see no problem with sharing the story in the HOA newsletter without names if you don't want to be identified as the victim. It doesn't hurt to remind the members to be diligent of their surroundings and this is one way to capture the audience.
MarkM19 (Texas)
Posts: 1,459
Posted:
Kerry,
As with all others it is very scary when this happens so close to home. I agree that the owners should be notified and also consider possibly creating a Buddy System for walks to stores or other places. The main problem is Police are not going to do anything other than paperwork which is important to document the report but very unlikely that it catches the bad guy. We are living in crazy times and not much hope of things getting better in the near future especially in California.

I personally would feel an obligation to make sure that the HOA gets noticed. It would be terrible if these same guys hurt the next victim seriously. I personally read the daily crime mapper in our area, so I have an idea of what is going on near our community. It can be scary but being aware and cautious is far better than blind to the truth.
KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550
Posted:
I'm working on replying to the useful comments to my post. You've given me. sense of direction.

But, for now to Terri's post & her Village Green citation, which is very ell-known & often cited. It, however, was a case about a crime against a resident ON the HOA premises, that owner's pleas for better lighting, and the HOA refusing. The owner was attacked a 2nd time and sued the HOA.

Terri if you want to talk about seemingly negligent & sloppy HOA boards, start a new post. I don't agree that Village Green has one iota of relevance to my incident. Recall, the crime against me was on a public sidewalk OUTside of our HOA's premises. It was NOT "foreseeable." And just because it happened once that I know of in many years does not make it "foreseeable."* My HOA's "duty of care" does NOT cover protecting residents from crime on public streets & sidewalks.

Yes, we have cameras onto extras of our buildings but they are to perform the HOA's CC&rR-required duty of protecting the common areas, e.g., from graffiti, which we also very rarely have.

I do agree that I, as a certain kind of person, do want to help my fellow residents avoid such crimes. But I also want them to enjoy the pleasures of not needing a car to buy a loaf of bread without fear. That's the Blane I'll try to create. I hope my HOA Board agrees that my article will serve our community.

More later.

*This may relate to Bill's point about statistically rare instances & complaints.
TerriS6 (California)
Posts: 3,284
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By KerryL1 on 05/18/2024 7:02 PM
I'm working on replying to the useful comments to my post. You've given me. sense of direction.

But, for now to Terri's post & her Village Green citation, which is very ell-known & often cited. It, however, was a case about a crime against a resident ON the HOA premises, that owner's pleas for better lighting, and the HOA refusing. The owner was attacked a 2nd time and sued the HOA.

Terri if you want to talk about seemingly negligent & sloppy HOA boards, start a new post. I don't agree that Village Green has one iota of relevance to my incident. Recall, the crime against me was on a public sidewalk OUTside of our HOA's premises. It was NOT "foreseeable." And just because it happened once that I know of in many years does not make it "foreseeable."* My HOA's "duty of care" does NOT cover protecting residents from crime on public streets & sidewalks.

Yes, we have cameras onto extras of our buildings but they are to perform the HOA's CC&rR-required duty of protecting the common areas, e.g., from graffiti, which we also very rarely have.

I do agree that I, as a certain kind of person, do want to help my fellow residents avoid such crimes. But I also want them to enjoy the pleasures of not needing a car to buy a loaf of bread without fear. That's the Blane I'll try to create. I hope my HOA Board agrees that my article will serve our community.

More later.

*This may relate to Bill's point about statistically rare instances & complaints.

Your initial post wasn't clear as to where the public area ended and your common area began. More information is better than less.
KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550
Posted:
Oh, sorry, Terri: Our central CITY HOA comprises one square city block. So it's surrounded by 4 public board sidewalks & curbs & streets.

We do have cameras mounted on our HOA buildings' street -side exteriors to capture any issues caused to our buildings. They also capture the two entrances to our twin towers. They also capture the public sidewalks and would see, for example, if anyone vandalized a tree (city owned) of which there are many marching down the streets. Such footage would certainly see any crimes on the public sidewalks.

(I keep forgetting that in suburban or rural HOAs, the HOA is often responsible for the sidewalks & street they are, I guess common area. . but in all US cites I know about the streets & sidewalks in city centers are public.)
CathyA3 (Ohio)
Posts: 6,299
Posted:
I think that in urban areas, the sidewalks and streets often pre-date any HOAs and so are owned by the local municipality.

In areas outside of cities, HOAs can pre-date the infrastructure. Or the developer has purchased the empty lots from the city. In these cases the infrastructure probably will be owned by the HOA.
LayaS (Nebraska)
Posts: 249
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By CathyA3 on 05/20/2024 4:59 AM
I think that in urban areas, the sidewalks and streets often pre-date any HOAs and so are owned by the local municipality.

In areas outside of cities, HOAs can pre-date the infrastructure. Or the developer has purchased the empty lots from the city. In these cases the infrastructure probably will be owned by the HOA.

Just for informational purposes, I live in a community of about 30,000. My home is in a newly developed neighborhood within the city limits. The streets and sidewalks are owned by the City. It is the homeowners' responsibility to mow the grassy area between the curb and the sidewalk. It's also the homeowners' responsibility to keep the sidewalk cleared of snow in the wintertime. It's a bit unclear to me if the city is responsible for fixing/repairing the sidewalk. That is something that may come up in the future as the development ages and the sidewalks become cracked or uneven. I would guess that this is something the City will put way down on its priority list if they are indeed responsible.
KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550
Posted:


I thought about this a lot and will publicize the incident in our monthly Newsletter with an OK from the Board president or in an eblast from the PM if that's preferred. I’ve written several items over the years but will stay anon this time.

I’d leaned toward just an article with safety tips. But I think those of you are right who promote relating the incident. That provides more power for residents who’d benefit by being, as BillD puts it, “aware of the situation.” Ditto Shelia who reminds us to beware of our surroundings. And as Laya observes, a true story will capture the audience.

I like MarkM’s suggestion about a buddy system for going to the supermarket.

I don’t want to unduly alarm residents, who, like me, greatly enjoy the many, many conveniences of living downtown, so will try to craft some balance. As I wrote above, so far as I know, robbing pedestrians is very rare indeed.

One tip is that our HOA has a circle drive within our premises where a taxi or Uber could enter via our vehicle entry kiosk & pick up traveler or anyone in a secure place. While my spouse & I only had one piece of luggage total, I often see residents waiting for transportation. with their 3 or 4 pieces setting on the sidewalk street curb. They would be very easy to grab.

How ‘bout a break, MarkM, from talking smack about Calif. “Especially California” folks must worry about crime?? As with Texas, there are a couple of major cities with higher crime rates, but I don’t live in them. Houston just ranked 1 & 2 in categories that cannot generate pride. Otherwise, Mark, your contributions are soooo good. 👍🏻

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