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PatrickM12 (New York)
Posts: 3
Posted:
Due some HOA By laws support concealed carry on property
DouglasK1 (Florida)
Posts: 2,046
Posted:
I doubt that very many HOA docs say anything about concealed carry. If someone has a permit, they are generally allowed to carry most places (depending on state law, exceptions include schools, bars, state legislature building). Again depending on the state and local laws businesses may be able to exclude concealed carry with appropriate notice.

Are you referring to association buildings like a clubhouse, or in the subdivision in general?

Escaped former treasurer and director of a self managed association.
TerriS6 (California)
Posts: 3,284
Posted:
HOA has no authority over 2nd Amendment rights.
DeanJ
Posts: 1,786
Posted:
The 2nd amendment protects people from the government. An HOA is private property and has authority to adopt reasonable regulations for weapons in common areas in most states.

That includes all firearms in common areas, to include parking areas, must unloaded and secured in locked container or case.
No firearms may be left unattended in vehicle parked in common areas.

LetA (Nevada)
Posts: 2,679
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By DeanJ on 05/08/2024 8:22 PM
The 2nd amendment protects people from the government. An HOA is private property and has authority to adopt reasonable regulations for weapons in common areas in most states.

That includes all firearms in common areas, to include parking areas, must unloaded and secured in locked container or case.
No firearms may be left unattended in vehicle parked in common areas.


That would be hard to enforce like many covenants in HOAs already are.
LetA (Nevada)
Posts: 2,679
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By DouglasK1 on 05/08/2024 4:57 PM
I doubt that very many HOA docs say anything about concealed carry. If someone has a permit, they are generally allowed to carry most places (depending on state law, exceptions include schools, bars, state legislature building). Again depending on the state and local laws businesses may be able to exclude concealed carry with appropriate notice.

Are you referring to association buildings like a clubhouse, or in the subdivision in general?

That would be a stretch, especially in condo buildings. How would a gun owner be able to go to or from their unit to the sidewalk or car with
their legal firearm and avoid passing through common areas aside from base jumping from their balcony?

Here's one for you. I have to qualify on the range throughout the year for work. The range instructor mentioned to me
that a condo that has retail, a company wanted to open a day care in the vacant retail space. some of the parties were on board with it
until the condo unit owners got wind of it and killed the plan. In Nevada law, guns are banned from the property that has a daycare, because it is
considered a school.

Here's an example. Since Nevada is an open carry state. Permit or no permit, you can't take a gun in the trunk of your car or a locked
glove box on any school property. Here is the tricky catch 22. The MGM company, at the MGM Grand is a daycare. You cannot park at the Bellagio
with a gun on your person or in your car. Two different properties, but the properties are enjoined by the master company, The same catch 22
would apply to HOAs if some covenant would pass.

TerriS6 (California)
Posts: 3,284
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By DeanJ on 05/08/2024 8:22 PM
The 2nd amendment protects people from the government. An HOA is private property and has authority to adopt reasonable regulations for weapons in common areas in most states.

That includes all firearms in common areas, to include parking areas, must unloaded and secured in locked container or case.
No firearms may be left unattended in vehicle parked in common areas.


Not if member is legally carrying.
MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836
Posted:
In common areas like clubhouse, pools, tennis courts, golf courses, and other amenities they may request no guns. However they can not supercede the law.


Former HOA President
TerriS6 (California)
Posts: 3,284
Posted:
June 23, 2022, 7:34 AM PDT / Updated June 23, 2022, 11:37 AM PDT
By Pete Williams
WASHINGTON — The Supreme Court ruled Thursday that the Constitution provides a right to carry a gun outside the home, issuing a major decision on the meaning of the Second Amendment.

The 6-3 ruling was the court’s second important decision on the right to “keep and bear arms.” In a landmark 2008 decision, the court had said for the first time that the amendment safeguards a person’s right to possess firearms, although the decision was limited to keeping guns at home for self-defense.

The court has now taken that ruling to the next step after years of ducking the issue and applied the Second Amendment beyond the limits of homeowners’ property in a decision that could affect the ability of state and local governments to impose a wide variety of firearms regulations.

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/supreme-court/supreme-court-says-second-amendment-guarantees-right-carry-guns-public-rcna17721
TerriS6 (California)
Posts: 3,284
Posted:
Two years ago, one of our members got a civil harassment restraining order against another member who was required to surrender his firearm to the sheriff. Our HOA would not have been able to modify that order because it has no authority over 2nd Amendment rights.
MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836
Posted:
They had no authority because this was NOT a HOA issue but individuals. Just because you are a HOA member does not mean laws do not apply. The HOA as a whole would had to file the restraining order to be involved.

We had a member post a warning to everyone to watch out for car break ins. Their loaded gun was stolen from their unlocked truck. So how was that a HOA issue and not the stupidest gun owner on earth?

Former HOA President
ElleN (Idaho)
Posts: 4,420
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By TerriS6 on 05/09/2024 6:34 AM
Two years ago, one of our members got a civil harassment restraining order against another member who was required to surrender his firearm to the sheriff. Our HOA would not have been able to modify that order because it has no authority over 2nd Amendment rights.
Private property owners can restrict the possession of guns on their property. An HOA can prohibit guns on common area. Doing so does not violate the 2nd Amendment. See the following and many other sites:

https://www.mulcahylawfirm.com/can-a-hoa-prohibit-firearms-in-common-areas/
BillD16 (Texas)
Posts: 974
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By ElleN on 05/09/2024 9:12 AM
Posted By TerriS6 on 05/09/2024 6:34 AM
Two years ago, one of our members got a civil harassment restraining order against another member who was required to surrender his firearm to the sheriff. Our HOA would not have been able to modify that order because it has no authority over 2nd Amendment rights.
Private property owners can restrict the possession of guns on their property. An HOA can prohibit guns on common area. Doing so does not violate the 2nd Amendment. See the following and many other sites:

https://www.mulcahylawfirm.com/can-a-hoa-prohibit-firearms-in-common-areas/

FWIW: my Texas neighborhood prohibits firearms at the (common area) pool. I do not believe it has ever been challenged.

Also: I posted here not long ago about the "Code of Conduct" that our HOA attorney suggested. It contains an item that prohibits "displaying in any manner weapons such as knives, guns, brass knuckles, or other similar items, regardless of whether the display is intended as threatening. All such items may be transported to the owners’ unit to and from the owner’s car as reasonably necessary but at all times in a case or other enclosed carrier." I suspect this text (like much of the CoC) was copy/pasted from some unknown condo-related CoC document.

I'm not into guns. And it freaks me out that there are places where people can walk around carrying assault rifles.

Bill

HOA Board ex-President
Austin, Texas USA

“You can’t put too much water in a nuclear reactor”
TerriS6 (California)
Posts: 3,284
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By ElleN on 05/09/2024 9:12 AM
Posted By TerriS6 on 05/09/2024 6:34 AM
Two years ago, one of our members got a civil harassment restraining order against another member who was required to surrender his firearm to the sheriff. Our HOA would not have been able to modify that order because it has no authority over 2nd Amendment rights.
Private property owners can restrict the possession of guns on their property. An HOA can prohibit guns on common area. Doing so does not violate the 2nd Amendment. See the following and many other sites:

https://www.mulcahylawfirm.com/can-a-hoa-prohibit-firearms-in-common-areas/

Wrong again.
TerriS6 (California)
Posts: 3,284
Posted:
I have a vacation rental that is private property. I have no legal right - even if I wanted to - to restrict my guests’ possession of firearms. HOA boards have no power to curtail rights that the government grants regarding firearms.
TerriS6 (California)
Posts: 3,284
Posted:
Our board’s only power except for insignificant exercise in other areas is to maintain the roads and greenbelt. No way could the board successfully restrict lawful firearm activities. It so happens that our county prohibits discharging firearms in a subdivision but members shoot anyway and the sheriff doesn’t care. One member checked with the sheriff first. Another member has a shooting range. It’s like our board meetings- the wild west.
MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836
Posted:
And this is why I am so glad Terri does not live in my HOA...

Former HOA President
SheliaH (Indiana)
Posts: 6,964
Posted:
So what have we learned Charlie Brown?

Like so many HOA issues, this one is evolving, especially in light of the assorted "stand your ground" laws around the country and loosening up of regulations For example, in my state, the law was changed in 2022 to allow anyone 18+ to carry a concealed handgun in public, provided he or she isn't prohibited from possessing a gun by state or federal law.

(Not a good idea in my opinion - my view on guns is similar to Bill's. I understand there are legitimate needs to having the thing for protection, but can anyone explain why you need a license to practice medicine, work as a beautician, drive a car and even get MARRIED, but any boob who owns a gun can carry it everywhere??? Why would you need your gun at the HOA pool?)

We just had a conversation on the Lester/Yari incident which has resulted in a lawsuit by Yari against Lester and the HOA he lives in, so we may have to expect similar incidents in the future since it seems the entire country is packing, permit or not. Expect a patchwork of assorted laws around the country, which may or may not put the HOA's master insurance policy at risk, but those are conversations for another day.

Until then, I found this article on the issue which is something Patrick's community (and maybe a few others) may want to ponder as they consider if any regulations are necessary. https://outfastrealty.com/is-it-legal-for-hoas-to-prohibit-guns-within-residents-homes/#:~:text=Courts%20have%20generally%20upheld%20the,the%20fundamental%20rights%20of%20homeowners.

If it is not right do not do it; if it is not true do not say it. Marcus Aurelius
SheliaH (Indiana)
Posts: 6,964
Posted:
So what have we learned Charlie Brown?

Like so many HOA issues, this one is evolving, especially in light of the assorted "stand your ground" laws around the country and loosening up of regulations For example, in my state, the law was changed in 2022 to allow anyone 18+ to carry a concealed handgun in public, provided he or she isn't prohibited from possessing a gun by state or federal law.

(Not a good idea in my opinion - my view on guns is similar to Bill's. I understand there are legitimate needs to having the thing for protection, but can anyone explain why you need a license to practice medicine, work as a beautician, drive a car and even get MARRIED, but any boob who owns a gun can carry it everywhere??? Why would you need your gun at the HOA pool?)

We just had a conversation on the Lester/Yari incident which has resulted in a lawsuit by Yari against Lester and the HOA he lives in, so we may have to expect similar incidents in the future since it seems the entire country is packing, permit or not. Expect a patchwork of assorted laws around the country, which may or may not put the HOA's master insurance policy at risk, but those are conversations for another day.

Until then, I found this article on the issue which is something Patrick's community (and maybe a few others) may want to ponder as they consider if any regulations are necessary. https://outfastrealty.com/is-it-legal-for-hoas-to-prohibit-guns-within-residents-homes/#:~:text=Courts%20have%20generally%20upheld%20the,the%20fundamental%20rights%20of%20homeowners.

If it is not right do not do it; if it is not true do not say it. Marcus Aurelius
ElleN (Idaho)
Posts: 4,420
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By TerriS6 on 05/09/2024 8:56 PM
Our board’s only power except for insignificant exercise in other areas is to maintain the roads and greenbelt. No way could the board successfully restrict lawful firearm activities.
Fake news.

Fact: A HOA Board can restrict the use of firearms on common areas.

Keep bringing it. I will keep correcting your half-crazed notions on Constitutional law.
ElleN (Idaho)
Posts: 4,420
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By SheliaH on 05/10/2024 6:27 AM
Like so many HOA issues, this one is evolving, especially in light of the assorted "stand your ground" laws around the country and loosening up of regulations For example, in my state, the law was changed in 2022 to allow anyone 18+ to carry a concealed handgun in public, provided he or she isn't prohibited from possessing a gun by state or federal law.
This //does not// apply to HOA restrictions. Why? Because we are talking about private property.

A buzillion legal web sites on the net say exactly as I do about a HOA's lawful right to restrict guns on common areas.
ElleN (Idaho)
Posts: 4,420
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By ElleN on 05/10/2024 7:37 AM
Posted By SheliaH on 05/10/2024 6:27 AM
Like so many HOA issues, this one is evolving, especially in light of the assorted "stand your ground" laws around the country and loosening up of regulations For example, in my state, the law was changed in 2022 to allow anyone 18+ to carry a concealed handgun in public, provided he or she isn't prohibited from possessing a gun by state or federal law.
This //does not// apply to HOA restrictions.
Clarification: I mean HOA restrictions pertaining to common area usage.
TerriS6 (California)
Posts: 3,284
Posted:
The question was about "concealed carry." HOA has no authority to restrict a concealed carry permit. HOA could not even identify a concealed weapon unless it was an invasion of privacy.
ElleN (Idaho)
Posts: 4,420
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By TerriS6 on 05/10/2024 7:45 AM
The question was about "concealed carry." HOA has no authority to restrict a concealed carry permit.
A concealed carry permit pertains to carrying a gun on public property. It has nothing to do with restrictions property owners may place on the use of their property.

Fact: A HOA may lawfully prohibit guns on common areas. Doing so is //not// a violation of the Second Amendment.
ElleN (Idaho)
Posts: 4,420
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By TerriS6 on 05/10/2024 7:45 AM
HOA could not even identify a concealed weapon unless it was an invasion of privacy.
Gee, do you think the staff at the local grocery store would have the same problem (where laws prohibit any gun in a grocery store et cetera)?

Enforcement is a different issue.
ElleN (Idaho)
Posts: 4,420
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By ElleN on 05/10/2024 8:17 AM
A concealed carry permit pertains to carrying a gun on public property.
Post-o. Change to "carrying a gun in certain public places."
DeanJ
Posts: 1,786
Posted:
Not really. If someone can see the firearm, a photo is good evidence. When you leave your pistol in your car and it gets stolen, your police report is a confession.
DeanJ
Posts: 1,786
Posted:
Maybe to the untrained observer. I see people all the time I can tell are carrying concealed. As far as invasion of privacy, you have no right to privacy in a common area in an HOA.
TerriS6 (California)
Posts: 3,284
Posted:
More on concealed carry from D/S site:

Common Areas. Are common areas a public place? If so, then California’s restrictions against the carrying a loaded firearm in the common areas apply. One court has already determined that private association meetings are "public" forums for the limited purpose of free speech by the membership. (Damon v. Ocean Hills.) It is likely courts would also deem common areas a "public place" for the association's membership. Therefore, anyone carrying a loaded firearm in the common areas would need to be licensed. Individuals with a license to carry a loaded firearm are generally exempt from California’s restrictions. (Penal Code §§ 25655, 26010.)

Self-Defense in Common Areas. Even though a person may lawfully defend himself with a firearm in the common areas, if he is not licensed to carry it in a public place, he could face prosecution for the unlawful possession of and or carrying of a firearm in connection with any incident involving it. In addition, if he shoots another person, he will need to prove:

1. He reasonably believed he or someone else was in imminent danger of being harmed;

2. He reasonably believed the use of force was necessary to defend against that danger; and

3. He only used the amount of force reasonably necessary to defend against that danger.
ChrisS29 (Florida)
Posts: 48
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By PatrickM12 on 05/08/2024 4:40 PM
Due some HOA By laws support concealed carry on property

In Florida it was a gray area as you had castle doctrine to have a gun in your home and your car without a permit, but carrying it through a common area parking lot would be illegal. Now there's no CC permits required in Florida, so it's not an issue. Before that though a Florida HOA could not restrict a lawfully carried concealed weapon.

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