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LynneV1 (South Carolina)
Posts: 211
Posted:
This supersedes our bylaws since it came after our deed and is SC state law. It seems we only need one more vote to get them out, than they needed to get in. They did not have a quorum at their election meeting. They did not adjourn or reconvene. They took a vote from h/o present to keep going and they had sixty-six votes to get in.
We sent a certified letter to each director saying we wanted a special meeting three weeks ago and we have not heard any reply. My question is can homeowners meet (which we are on May 13th) and vote them out without the actual board of directors showing up? Would that Special meeting count if the BOD do not come? If we adjourn next week's meeting and reconvene a second time, would it reduce our quorum needed??

2013 So. Carolina Code of Laws
Title 33 - Corporations, Partnerships and Associations
CHAPTER 31 - SOUTH CAROLINA NONPROFIT CORPORATION ACT
SECTION 33-31-808. Removal of directors elected by members or directors. Universal Citation: SC Code § 33-31-808 (2013)

(a) The members may remove one or more directors elected by them without cause.
(b) If a director is elected by a class, chapter, or other organizational
unit or by region or other geographic grouping, the director may be removed only by the members of that class, chapter, unit, or grouping.
(c) Except as provided in subsection (i), a director may be removed under subsection (a) or (b) only if the number of votes cast to remove the director would be sufficient to elect the director at a meeting to elect directors. (66 were enough to elect the entire 5 BOD; so 67 votes in person or by proxy should be enough to remove).
(d) (irrelevant -we do not have cumulative voting)
(e) A director elected by members may be removed by the members only at a meeting called for the purpose of removing the director and the meeting notice must state that the purpose, or one of the purposes, of the meeting is removal of the director.

(f) In computing whether a director is protected from removal under subsections (b) through (d), it should be assumed that the votes against removal are cast in an election for the number of directors of the class to which the director to be removed belonged on the date of that director's election. (66 max votes in 2022 election)

(g) An entire board of directors may be removed under subsections (a) through (e).

MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836
Posted:
Are you owner owned or developer? That Factor in. Also do you have people lined up to replace them? Is there reasons why processes for a quorum can not be met?

What you expect is not what can happen. Honestly I'm my HOA if I ever got 5 people to attend a meeting including a board member I was lucky. HOA is not an obsession of everyone. There are reasons why may not be functional. Try fixing those instead of tossing everything out.

Former HOA President
LynneV1 (South Carolina)
Posts: 211
Posted:
We are an owner-owned POA with 231 homes...had prior topic on this forum (2-3 weeks ago) as to removing our BOD but now there has been no reply to our petition for a special meeting. We scheduled a meeting for May 13th at our clubhouse. If they don't reply after 4 weeks, can we continue without them? And yes, most homeowners are apathetic and have never gone to a BOD meeting, which is why we did a mass mailing and secured proxies.
JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265
Posted:
Lynne

I have said before and I will say again. You need an attorney to guide you otherwise your chance of success is nil.
ElleN (Idaho)
Posts: 4,420
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By LynneV1 on 05/07/2024 11:03 AM
If they don't reply after 4 weeks, can we continue without them?
Of course the owners can run their own meeting, assuming quorum is met. The board does not have to be present, and even if the board is, the board has no powers at the meeting. The president might have certain powers at the meeting.

The problem is getting the board to recognize the results of the meeting. Given the board's conduct so far, it sounds like getting the board do recognize the outcome of the meeting will require an attorney.
LynneV1 (South Carolina)
Posts: 211
Posted:
Thank you JohnC46 -2 members of the group spoke to one today. But I have not heard the results. And thank you ElleN , sadly I agree with our chances of success being nil. But, our BOD and MGMT Company will not let us see any documents, bank statements, homeowner lists, election results, accounting or tax returns. They don't drive through the neighborhood and send violation letters of trucks, motorcycles and trailers on lawns, driveways and our narrow streets; nor will they stop groups of kids from picnicking in vacant yards and fishing in our ponds; some yards are not mowed for months.....and no one on the BOD cares. Anyhow, I hate hearing myself complain on this forum and I just thought maybe a new group of directors would be a little more enthusiastic.
There are three openings this fall, so who knows?
Thank you for letting me vent.
DeanJ
Posts: 1,786
Posted:
Your declaration will provide the requirements for the members to call a meeting. If you don’t meet that requirement, the SC law does not allow you to call the meeting.

If you meet the requirements to call the meeting, then you can remove by a simple majority vote. 66 has no bear8ng on this process.
LynneV1 (South Carolina)
Posts: 211
Posted:
We have 231 homes. Per our by-laws, 10% can petition and call for a special meeting -which we did.
Simple majority to vote them out would be 116 votes in person or by proxy.
However, a newer South Carolina law which supersedes our by-laws, states you only need one vote more to get them out than they had to get in. That's my point. And it states that the number of votes to keep them in is assumed to be what they got at the last election. And since they got no more than 66 votes, at the last election I'm thinking, if we have 70 or more, we can vote them out and 5 new directors in at the special meeting.
Note: They did not have quorum at their 2022 election meeting, and they decided not to adjourn and reconvene, but to continue without the quorum which i believed was wrong but was out voted at the election meeting.

I'm asking you if that sounds logical ?

ps. They have responded and they will be setting up a special meeting sometime in the future per our petition.
CathyA3 (Ohio)
Posts: 6,299
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By LynneV1 on 05/09/2024 6:55 AM
We have 231 homes. Per our by-laws, 10% can petition and call for a special meeting -which we did.
Simple majority to vote them out would be 116 votes in person or by proxy.
However, a newer South Carolina law which supersedes our by-laws, states you only need one vote more to get them out than they had to get in. That's my point. And it states that the number of votes to keep them in is assumed to be what they got at the last election. And since they got no more than 66 votes, at the last election I'm thinking, if we have 70 or more, we can vote them out and 5 new directors in at the special meeting.
Note: They did not have quorum at their 2022 election meeting, and they decided not to adjourn and reconvene, but to continue without the quorum which i believed was wrong but was out voted at the election meeting.

I'm asking you if that sounds logical ?

ps. They have responded and they will be setting up a special meeting sometime in the future per our petition.

So what happens when you have rogue directors who did not comply with election requirements or preserve records, and you have no idea how many votes they received? Surely that *never* happens... /s

(Cathy's Rules for Life #2: Nobody thinks ten minutes beyond their own noses.)
LynneV1 (South Carolina)
Posts: 211
Posted:
My Current Board of directors were all re-elected two years ago. The five of them ran for the five open positions and won without opposition or a quorum.
Last year, there was one opening and the incumbent ran against one other homeowner. The management company disqualified 30 proxies which were submitted timely, two days before the election for no reason. They would not give us a list of the names of the people they disqualified but they were all for the new person. So, the incumbent won again without a quorum, and only because of the 30 disqualified proxies. So, in fact, we have a "rogue BOD".
One month after the last election, the incumbent resigned and they appointed a friend without a meeting. A second member of the board resigned also, and they appointed a friend without a meeting. So, by the time of the first meeting after the election, there were two new board of directors on the board without being elected or discussed in front of the homeowners. We're not allowed to see the ballots, or the proxies from the last election. We're not allowed to see any records at all.
The monkeys have taken over the zoo. We're just trying to get it back.
I doubt we'll succeed, but we're giving it a shot. I doubt the meeting will be fair, or just in any way, since they have a lawyer at our community's expense, and we won't.
DeanJ
Posts: 1,786
Posted:
(c) Except as provided in subsection (i), a director may be removed under subsection (a) or (b) only if the number of votes cast to remove the director would be sufficient to elect the director at a meeting.

You didn’t need 66 votes to elect the director. You need a quorum and 50% + 1 was required to elect.
LynneV1 (South Carolina)
Posts: 211
Posted:
Thank you DeanJ, that's exactly what I wanted to know. I needed an interpretation of that South Carolina ruling. We will go for the full quorum.
I was curious about part (f).
The ruling (f) seems to state that it's presumed that the number of people wanting them to "remain on the board" is equal to the number of votes they received at their last election.
LynneV1 (South Carolina)
Posts: 211
Posted:
Thank you DeanJ, that's exactly what I wanted to know. I needed an interpretation of that South Carolina ruling. We will go for the full quorum.
I was curious about part (f).
The ruling (f) seems to state that it's presumed that the number of people wanting them to "remain on the board" is equal to the number of votes they received at their last election.
KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550
Posted:
In your mind, Lynne. what number is "quorum" in your HOA for this activity?
LynneV1 (South Carolina)
Posts: 211
Posted:
Contrary to what everyone else says(which is 118), I felt that if we got at least a few more proxies to vote them out than they actually received to vote them in, it would be sufficient. The 5 of us working on this all wanted 70 votes/proxies or more.

But now that we submitted the petition for the special meeting, we are being threatened with "civil and criminal lawsuits" by the management company for creating a wave in the community of dissatisfaction. The management company sent out an email blast blaming four or five people getting petitions and proxies as troublemakers... And for possible slander against the five directors even though we have not slandered anyone, we're just frustrated and dissatisfied.

I just typed a letter to drop out at this point, but I am not sure, what my responsibility is as far as the proxies that I have received in my name.
Any advice is welcome.
DeanJ
Posts: 1,786
Posted:
It is likely your declaration requires a physical meeting. If you present the board ballots that were not cast as part of the prescribed process, they have no choice other than to not honor the ballots.
LynneV1 (South Carolina)
Posts: 211
Posted:
I'm not sure what Dean means. When we went around for our 10 % petition, we started gathering printed proxies to vote the five board members out and vote for 5 of 6 of us in, as the new directors. We will turn over the Proxies at the special meeting if we get an opportunity and are not shut out.
DeanJ
Posts: 1,786
Posted:
I mean you can’t gather ballots and proxies without a legal meeting and send them to the board demanding they surrender. Legal lmeeting means meeting all the requirements. Every element must be met.
CathyA3 (Ohio)
Posts: 6,299
Posted:
This is why we encourage people who want to oust problem boards to work with a knowledgeable attorney.

As Dean said, there is a prescribed procedure for doing this. Skip a step or make a mistake, and your entire effort is invalidated. Logic and "fairness" have nothing to do with it - it's strictly what the law says.

And with threats of lawsuits in the air, you really want to work with an attorney. Sure, the management company is probably just blowing smoke, but you don't want to rely on "probably". Lawsuits are expensive things to get wrong.
LynneV1 (South Carolina)
Posts: 211
Posted:
To answer DeanJ, We gathered a 10% petition to request a special meeting which has to be set up yet by the BOD in 30 days. We are now soliciting proxies by mail and door to door because only a dozen or so people ever come to an HOA meeting out of 231 homes.
Our proxy is worded to remove the current Board of directors and to vote for five new directors from the people listed below on the proxy. We have never, ever had a 51% quorum represented at any BOD, annual or election meeting in 16 years.
The BOD was always elected with half quorum requirements and past 2 yrs they do not even adjourn and reconvene. And since the SC.NFP laws say in effect, that we need one more vote to vote them out, than they needed to get in, we feel 70 votes or more should be fine.
And yes, Kerry said, I misunderstood the 33-31-808 rules- but it seems others disagree.
And yes to CathyA3, 2 members of my team met with 2 different lawyers at their own expense and yet we still have no answer on the quorum issue.

I wanted them to have the benefit of your experiences and knowledge.

If the BOD starts the special meeting and then adjourns because we don't have a 51 %quorum, can we reconvene a "special" meeting and use the half quorum rule as the homeowners?

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