Allowing access to units for repairs

NancyN2 (Washington)
Posts: 16

Posted:

I have a question regarding HOA property mgmt. ability to lean on unit owners to allow access to the unit to perform repairs.

Top unit in my complex had a burst pipe in laundry room in February (very cold weather and no heat in the unit) and flooded 2 units below. Water did run for days and basically the middle of both units had to be gutted.

Same unit also has a leak in bathroom (discovered in April.) When they use their sink, water runs between units down to my condo and on the outside siding as well. Turns out that this was a long term water damage that damaged beams in my bathroom and parts of them have to be replaced. HOA prop. mgmt. scheduled a contractor to repair the leak upstairs and told me they will repair beams after that.

Contractors showed up to repair the leak in the upstairs unit. The unit owner's representative did not let them in. Note: the owners live out of state and rent the unit as AirBnB.

HOA claims they are willing to repair if they get access to the unit.

The owners claim they are willing to give access but they are waiting on insurance.

When I asked how long they expect to wait, HOA property. mgmt said they have to wait until the owners allow access. Told me they don't have any tools to force the owners to comply. I wrote a letter to HOA Board. No reply.

It has been 4 weeks since I reported the leak. This could drag on for months.

What options do I have to make upstairs owners to allow contractors to repair the leak?

Note on Prop. mgmt. company: there was no yearly Association Meeting for 3 years and condo owners did not receive Annual Budget & Reserves Report since 2021. The company is very lax when it comes to maintenance etc.

MichaelS56 (Minnesota)
Posts: 859

Posted:

What do your governing documents say about emergency entrance into a condo for repairs that impact other units?

NancyN2 (Washington)
Posts: 16

Posted:

Governing documents do allow access in emergency.

Prop. management told me, however, that this does not qualify as an emergency situation.

The owner upstairs was told not to use the sink (sink pipe leaking) so there is not an emergency.

KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550

Posted:

Michael asks the right question, NancyN. The governing doc that applies probably is your covenants (aka, CC&Rs, deed restriction).

You also ought to read the insurance section, too. Your PM says the HOA will repair the damage in your Unit that was caused by a different Unit? I that. what the insurance section says?

NancyN2 (Washington)
Posts: 16

Posted:

They said they will repair the beams in my bathroom.

My bathroom walls have been taken out due to main flood event back in February. The beams are a part of perimeter walls, main building structure.

Prop. Manager told me that there won't be any cost to me for the repair.

They don't want to start working in my unit until the leak upstairs in the bathroom is repaired. The owner does not want to allow them access claiming they are waiting on insurance.

Prop. management claims this is not an emergency (water does not run continuously) and they cannot enter the unit.

There is nothing in Bylaws regarding how long can the owner refuse access. Since the unit is mostly empty, this can drag on for months, years.

DouglasK1 (Florida)
Posts: 2,046

Posted:

Sorry to hear about your troubles, but this is why I'd never buy a unit in a multi story condo.

Escaped former treasurer and director of a self managed association.

LetA (Nevada)
Posts: 2,679

Posted:

Water creates mold, mold is toxic if left untreated. I would say that qualifies as an emergency.
The water on metal creates rust and rust leads to decay. Again Champaign Towers anyone. Someone needs to find
an angry attorney to write a heated letter to the unit owner and their insurance carrier to immediately allow the repairs to
proceed, because other peoples lives are being disrupted by them.

To the unit owner being disrupted with a torn apart bathroom, You should seek temporary accommodations while your bathroom is torn
apart. Perhaps adding this expense to the unit owner will influence their decision to act fast instead of dragging their feet.
A finished bathroom is a necessity.

MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836

Posted:

You do not lien for this. Liens are for unpaid dues. There is a way to lien if it is for the HOA does the work and sends owner the bill. That is not the same as allowing access.

The HOA does have to wait for the owner to allow access or get a lawyer involved to ask for entry from a judge.

It can take time for everything to align. I have seen homes that have burned down take nearly a year to rebuild. It is not like an overnight or week thing. Not in today's world.

Former HOA President

NancyN2 (Washington)
Posts: 16

Posted:

I didn't mean a lien on their condo.

When I said 'lean on the owners', I meant if there is a way to somehow ... ahhh ... persuade/convince the owner to allow the contractors to enter the unit.

Sorry, perhaps wrong wording on my part.

KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550

Posted:

HOA access is more likely in your CC&Rs than in Bylaws. Here's what mine say for our condo multi-story bldg.:

"4.3.5 Right of Entry and Enforcement. Except in the case of emergencies in which case no prior notice need be given, the Board or any authorized representative thereof shall have the right, upon forty-eight (48) hours prior written notice and during reasonable hours, to enter into a Unit for the purpose of inspection, construction, maintenance or emergency repair for the benefit of the Common Area... or the other Condominiums or to perform its obligations under the Declaration or to cure any default by an Owner under this Declaration. Such persons shall not be deemed guilty of trespass by reason of such entry. If any such repair or maintenance is due to the failure of an Owner to perform its obligations hereunder, the cost of such maintenance or repair shall be assessed against said Owner as an Enforcement Assessment [upon hearing and board decision]." Our above was just added in 2022 when we restated our CC&Rs.

So, If an owner is responsible for damage to the common areas or other units, the HOA has the right to enter their unit for construction or maintenance. Sure your declarations has nothing like that? Will your HOA Board help you get the work done in the perp's" Unit by at least consulting with your HOA attorney the HOA's rights to enter that Unit?

I'd think the HOA attorney could somehow write a letter demanding the perp permit access to do the work. This would cost your HOA $$. Your PM does not have the final word here

It's also possible WA HOA statutes may offer you help. If you tackle them make sure you read the right ones.

I hope others have better ideas than I!!

To Douglas: Your remark helps the OP?--this isn't like you! Anyhoo, despite the risks, I love having lived in my 25 story condo for 19 years now. My views of the very active Bay (military & pleasure crafts), ocean, sunsets, and often ocean liners docked to the west, and city lights, skyscrapers, etc. to the east are fabulous. During the Pandemic, there was always something exciting, interesting, or beautiful to see from my many floor-to-ceiling windows & balcony on a corner unit. I was and still am willing to take the risk of water damage. My spouse's & my first high rise was an oldie apt. in the Lakeview (3100N) area of Chicago on the Lake for a year in the early ''90s. That hooked us.

I did, by the way, live a couple years at 91st St. & 84th Ave. in Miami. Um... lessee, viewed a lot of houses like mine from my windows. ZZZzzz.

NancyN2 (Washington)
Posts: 16

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By LetA on 05/03/2024 5:44 PM
Water creates mold, mold is toxic if left untreated. I would say that qualifies as an emergency.
The water on metal creates rust and rust leads to decay. Again Champaign Towers anyone. Someone needs to find
an angry attorney to write a heated letter to the unit owner and their insurance carrier to immediately allow the repairs to
proceed, because other peoples lives are being disrupted by them.

To the unit owner being disrupted with a torn apart bathroom, You should seek temporary accommodations while your bathroom is torn
apart. Perhaps adding this expense to the unit owner will influence their decision to act fast instead of dragging their feet.
A finished bathroom is a necessity.

Regarding a torn apart bathroom: My insurance informed me that my condo does not qualify as unhabitable because there is water available in the kitchen, furnace works, the toilet works. The absence of bathroom sink and the absence of laundry machine/dryer that had to be removed are not reasons for them to pay for ALE.

I'm not a fan of wasting money on legal but at this point I have no other options.

KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550

Posted:

Your wording is fine, Nancy. It's just that Melissa, uh, I can't explain....

LetA makes some very good points. Mold already might be forming in the perp's unit! This not only threatens Nancy, but I'll bet the common areas too! Perhaps "emergency" IS the right word. One hopes the perp has an HO6 policy that would cover "loss of use," if Nancy has any.

An owner in my high rise had a new faulty appliance installation break down while she traveled for several weeks recently. By the time she returned, mold already was everywhere. And her insurance will not cover anything because her flood was not reported soon enough to the company. She's a retired judge, but didn't have the wisdom to have a neighbor check on her unit every couple of days or so.

NancyN2 (Washington)
Posts: 16

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By KerryL1 on 05/03/2024 6:31 PM
Your wording is fine, Nancy. It's just that Melissa, uh, I can't explain....

LetA makes some very good points. Mold already might be forming in the perp's unit! This not only threatens Nancy, but I'll bet the common areas too! Perhaps "emergency" IS the right word. One hopes the perp has an HO6 policy that would cover "loss of use," if Nancy has any.

An owner in my high rise had a new faulty appliance installation break down while she traveled for several weeks recently. By the time she returned, mold already was everywhere. And her insurance will not cover anything because her flood was not reported soon enough to the company. She's a retired judge, but didn't have the wisdom to have a neighbor check on her unit every couple of days or so.

There is some mold on the beams in my unit. When the contractor was here to assess damages, he commented on mold.

NancyN2 (Washington)
Posts: 16

Posted:

I looked it up. Here is the part about entering units:

Section 2. Right of Entry.

(a) Any person authorized by the Board shall have the right to enter each Condominium Unit in case of any emergency originating in or threatening such Condominium Unit, or any part of the Project, whether or not the Owner or occupant is present at the time.

(b) Every Owner and occupant shall permit other Owners or their representatives to enter his Condominium Unit at reasonable times for the purpose of performing authorized installations, alterations or repairs to the Common Area, provided that requests for entry are made in advance. In case of emergency, such right of entry shall be immediate.

Also, this:

Section 3. Repair and Maintenance Duties of Association.

The Association shall maintain, repair and make necessary improvements to, and pay for out of the maintenance funds to be provided, all Common Areas and the building thereon; all landscaping, corrective architectural and repair work within residencies; if the Owner fails to repair the areas subject to his control and duty to maintain; all metered utilities in Common Area; walks and other means of ingress and egress within the Project.

KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550

Posted:

Holy sh*t. You need action fast and must try to get the Board to act in YOUR unit ASAP. I'm not at all knowledgeable about this topic, but it feels like the HOA should not wait to fix your unit/the common area until the perp gets around to fixing his. The HOA's responsibility IS the common areas and it sounds like the Board is neglecting it.

Do have access to the Board or only the PM? Screaming emergency to the Board and might get some action. I hope the HOA's master policy covers the remediation.

I never like to advise this, but the HOA may need a letter from an attorney demanding they take action.

KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550

Posted:

Our entries crossed.

Section 3. Repair and Maintenance Duties of Association.
The Association shall maintain, repair and make necessary improvements to, and pay for out of the maintenance funds to be provided, all Common Areas and the building thereon; all landscaping, corrective architectural and repair work within residencies; if the Owner fails to repair the areas subject to his control and duty to maintain; all metered utilities in Common Area; walks and other means of ingress and egress within the Project.

"...repair work within residencies; if the Owner fails to repair the areas subject to his control and duty to maintain;..." This phrase suggests the HOA CAN make repairs in the perp's unit. But I find it a little confusing due to some punctuation weirdness.

Do others read it as I do?

KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550

Posted:

Our entries crossed.

Section 3. Repair and Maintenance Duties of Association.
The Association shall maintain, repair and make necessary improvements to, and pay for out of the maintenance funds to be provided, all Common Areas and the building thereon; all landscaping, corrective architectural and repair work within residencies; if the Owner fails to repair the areas subject to his control and duty to maintain; all metered utilities in Common Area; walks and other means of ingress and egress within the Project.

"...repair work within residencies; if the Owner fails to repair the areas subject to his control and duty to maintain;..." This phrase suggests the HOA CAN make repairs in the perp's unit. But I find it a little confusing due to some punctuation weirdness.

Do others read it as I do?

MichaelS56 (Minnesota)
Posts: 859

Posted:

Since you have stated that there is mold forming in the unit, please contact the city health department to seek advice. There may be a city ordinance that allows your HOA to take care of the needed repairs.

KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550

Posted:

Looks like good advice from MichaelS.

NancyN2 (Washington)
Posts: 16

Posted:

I will call Health Dept. Monday and consult with them.

Few weeks ago I wrote a letter to HOA Board president asking if I need to file a claim with HOA insurance and I also asked property mgmt manager. No response from anyone.

Would it be a good idea to open a claim?

KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550

Posted:

Check the Insurance section of your CC&Rs. Our HOA, and, I think they're typical, does not permit owners to file claims against the Association's master insurance policy.

NA1 (Massachusetts)
Posts: 190

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By KerryL1 on 05/04/2024 2:33 PM
Check the Insurance section of your CC&Rs. Our HOA, and, I think they're typical, does not permit owners to file claims against the Association's master insurance policy.

I think the usual process in a claim is file on your own. They figure out who to hit up from there

MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836

Posted:

Exactly. This is an insurance issue. You make the claim on your insurance. They then work with the other persons insurance to resolve issues.

Former HOA President

NancyN2 (Washington)
Posts: 16

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By MelissaP1 on 05/04/2024 11:30 PM
Exactly. This is an insurance issue. You make the claim on your insurance. They then work with the other persons insurance to resolve issues.

From my original post:

" Same unit also has a leak in bathroom (discovered in April.) When they use their bathroom sink, water runs between units down to my condo and on the outside siding as well. Turns out that this was a long term water damage that damaged beams in my bathroom and parts of them have to be replaced. HOA prop. mgmt. scheduled a contractor to repair the leak upstairs and told me they will repair beams after that. "

My own insurance does not cover what's outside of my condo. The siding on the building and the beams are on perimeter wall, part of a building structure. HOA property management agrees to repair when the owner allows them to access the unit.

My issue is that this process can take years because the owners are not living here and nothing in CC&R specifies a time frame when repairs must me done. If they decide they will have money to fix it in 2028, I will have to live in a gutted condo until 2028.

MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836

Posted:

Your option is to file a claim with your insurance. They will handle the rest. You have the right and expectation to mitigate any additional damages. It is NOT up to you to file with the HOA insurance. They are NOT your insurance. They are the HOA. So if the HOA needs to be involved then they will have to take that action. The owner involved either has insurance or doesn't. If access is needed then whomever is doing the repairs will need to ask for permission for entry. That will be either through the owners or they may ask the HOA to follow THEIR procedures.

In the meantime all you can do is limit additional damage to your unit and talk to YOUR insurance. It is what you pay insurance for...

Note: A few years ago I had a rotten tree fall over onto my neighbor's roof. It landed and did damage to his roof and some inside damage. It was during a leftover hurricane and the wind knocked it over. However, the tree was not maintained/rotten. It was too expensive for me to remove and required a possible crane. Typically if the tree had been healthy and fell over in a storm, then my neighbors insurance would have paid for it. However, because it was rotten tree, I had to pay my deductible to cover his damages. My fence was damaged as well. (I paid for my repairs as didn't meet deductible).

Mind you me and my neighbor were in a toxic nuclear war with each other. We are talking police called multiple times. Harassment etc.. It wasn't like I was going to bake him a cake and apologize for the tree if you get my drift. So even with two neighbors whom would NOT talk to each other, the repairs were taken care of. It does not always mean it can't be done. You let the insurance figure that out.

Former HOA President

NancyN2 (Washington)
Posts: 16

Posted:

There are 2 different issues going on here.

I did file a claim for the original event (burst pipe upstairs and sudden flooding) that occurred in February. That was dealt with and my insurance covered damages I incurred.

The April issue (damaged beams etc) was caused by long term water damage outside of my condo. My insurance will not cover (1) long term water damage (2) located outside of my dwelling.

KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550

Posted:

I'd hoped that you'd get some advice from posters who actually are familiar with Multi-story condo HOAs. Melissa is not one of them.

And there really aren't many such folk on this forum -- maybe a small handful.

In reviewing your post, Nancy, I feel like you're ascribing too much ability to the PM to rule your HOA. The Board rules. The Board instructs/directs the PM. The Board should have insisted on your HOA's required annual meetings, etc. The Board should order the PM to have handled maintenance about which it (the Board) has been "lax."

So I'm thinking that your Board is not only incompetent, it is dragging its heels on making these common area repairs that affect you. Because of the mold, it seems to me that the Board is now even "negligent." Do let us know what the Health Dept. has to say. But, nevertheless, there is no reasonable excuse for the Board to not order the PM to get your areas fixed that are damaged by the common area's issues.

To me, your "Section 3. Repair and Maintenance Duties of Association. The Association shall maintain, repair and make necessary improvements to, and pay for out of the maintenance funds to be provided, all Common Areas and the building thereon; all landscaping, corrective architectural and repair work within residencies; if the Owner fails to repair the areas subject to his control and duty to maintain; all metered utilities in Common Area; walks and other means of ingress and egress within the Project," also says the HOA can enter the perp's Unit to make repairs since the leaks

But I'm not a lawyer. I think you need to go ahead and engage one. Your MIGHT try a letter, return receipt requested, to the Board prez and the PM, stating that if you do not hear from the Board via the PM within 5 days when remediation in your Unit will begin, you will be forced to engage legal counsel --- or some such. Do be polite and stick to the probable at hand. Maybe wait until you hear from the City Health ppl.

Nanvy, what size is your HOA? Does the PM have an office on your premises?

GregoryT1
Posts: 315

Posted:

I support Kerry comments. You need to act fast. The condo has rights in this case. Which no one is enforcing.

I do live in a multi-story condo. Neighbor (A) water heater leaked and affected multiple units. My unit had a small amount of water. The other neighbor (B) took some damage. Neighbor A damages was covered by their insurance. Neighbor A insurance will not cover neighbor B damages. Neighbor A paid for neighbor B damages. The beams of the condo association were dry and no mold. So the condo insurance did not need to step in.

The original posting and the posting of the docs really points to a lame PM and board. Also I like another poster comments of seeing also what municipalities rules can help in this case.

My docs are not as strong as yours. Easement in emergency the condo can come in. Easement in non-emergency they are allowed access during normal business hours. Non-emergency notification most likely needs to be given. Kerry's process needs to be followed and started.

Water is usually the biggest issue for damages in multistory condos.

i am sorry you have to go through this.

GregoryT1
Posts: 315

Posted:

hi another note is that don't wait to contact the board and state the condo docs to them. They themselves might be clueless in understanding their own docs and how to handle this. Please do send the letter in. In these types of matter it's painful in finding a lawyer who will take their time in this since for them it's small potatoes item and not worth their time. Outside of the box situation depending on the monetary damages that has happened you may (I am not advising this but is an option) use small claims court or the next level court level depending on the level of financial threshold. I do not have experience in small claims vs HOA or the individual unit owner. hang in there and be persistent.

KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550

Posted:

Good point to cite your documents to the president & PM. I do know from lonnng board experience that some PMs are pretty ignorant, and some boards are too, BUT they rely on thier PM

JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By KerryL1 on 05/05/2024 1:42 PM
I'd hoped that you'd get some advice from posters who actually are familiar with Multi-story condo HOAs. Melissa is not one of them.

And there really aren't many such folk on this forum -- maybe a small handful.

In reviewing your post, Nancy, I feel like you're ascribing too much ability to the PM to rule your HOA. The Board rules. The Board instructs/directs the PM. The Board should have insisted on your HOA's required annual meetings, etc. The Board should order the PM to have handled maintenance about which it (the Board) has been "lax."

So I'm thinking that your Board is not only incompetent, it is dragging its heels on making these common area repairs that affect you. Because of the mold, it seems to me that the Board is now even "negligent." Do let us know what the Health Dept. has to say. But, nevertheless, there is no reasonable excuse for the Board to not order the PM to get your areas fixed that are damaged by the common area's issues.

To me, your "Section 3. Repair and Maintenance Duties of Association. The Association shall maintain, repair and make necessary improvements to, and pay for out of the maintenance funds to be provided, all Common Areas and the building thereon; all landscaping, corrective architectural and repair work within residencies; if the Owner fails to repair the areas subject to his control and duty to maintain; all metered utilities in Common Area; walks and other means of ingress and egress within the Project," also says the HOA can enter the perp's Unit to make repairs since the leaks

But I'm not a lawyer. I think you need to go ahead and engage one. Your MIGHT try a letter, return receipt requested, to the Board prez and the PM, stating that if you do not hear from the Board via the PM within 5 days when remediation in your Unit will begin, you will be forced to engage legal counsel --- or some such. Do be polite and stick to the probable at hand. Maybe wait until you hear from the City Health ppl.

Nanvy, what size is your HOA? Does the PM have an office on your premises?

Sound advice.

JeffT2 (Iowa)
Posts: 880

Posted:

The following is a letter to your board, which you should also send to the manager and the upstairs owners and upstairs tenant. It emphasizes mold, but you should modify it to include loss of your sink and that you have to live in a construction zone. Take a lot of pictures and include it along with the letter. This letter was generated by artificial intelligence (chat), which was pretty easy. I gave it some points and it generated the text.

Subject: Urgent Attention Required: Mold Issue in Condo Unit

Dear Members of the Board of Directors,

I hope this letter finds you well. I am writing to bring to your immediate attention a matter of utmost urgency regarding the current situation in my condominium unit. The presence of mold within my unit has reached a critical level, posing a significant health hazard to me and potentially to others residing within the vicinity.

As outlined in our governing documents, the existence of mold within the premises is explicitly prohibited. However, despite this clear directive, the issue persists unabated. This not only contravenes the rules and regulations set forth by our association but also creates an environment that is not conducive to safe and healthy living.

It is imperative to emphasize that the continuation of this situation is not fair nor is it right. As a resident, I am being denied the basic right to proper living conditions within my own home. The presence of mold not only compromises the structural integrity of the unit but also poses serious health risks, including respiratory problems and allergic reactions.

I want to make it unequivocally clear that I do not wish to resort to legal action to address this matter. However, the current situation cannot be allowed to persist any longer. It is incumbent upon the board to take immediate and decisive action to rectify this issue and ensure that all residents are provided with a safe and healthy living environment.

The delays in addressing this issue are unacceptable. Every moment that passes without action being taken puts the health and well-being of myself and my fellow residents at risk. I urge you to prioritize this matter and implement measures to eradicate the mold infestation without further delay.

In conclusion, I implore the board to take swift and decisive action to address the mold issue in my condominium unit. This is not merely a matter of convenience but a fundamental necessity for the health and safety of all residents. Your immediate attention to this matter is crucial, and I trust that you will take the necessary steps to ensure that this situation is resolved promptly.

Thank you for your attention to this urgent matter.

Sincerely,

[Your Name]
[Your Condo Unit Number]

ElleN (Idaho)
Posts: 4,420

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By NancyN2 on 05/03/2024 5:22 PM
Prop. management told me, however, that this does not qualify as an emergency situation.

Quote:

Posted By NancyN2 on 05/03/2024 5:22 PM
They don't want to start working in my unit until the leak upstairs in the bathroom is repaired. The owner does not want to allow them access claiming they are waiting on insurance.

See https://www.davis-stirling.com/HOME/right-of-entry

The way I see it, unless the Board has a breakthrough and figures things out on its own, time is going to pass. You have two options:

-- You may as well make good use of this time. You should do so using the law. I would start by asking for Internal Dispute Resolution (IDR). Statutes require that the HOA take certain steps in responding to your request for IDR.

Does your HOA have an IDR procedure? If so, can you please post as much of it as possible? Subsequently I would be happy to draft a letter requesting IDR and post it here for you.

The goal is to force the HOA to lawyer up and force the top floor's owner (and perhaps its insurer) to get cracking, "or else."

-- Hire an attorney immediately. But doing so still means it is going to take several days and maybe longer to get a letter to the board. Said letter might include a threat saying you (through your attorney) will see emergency injunctive relief from a court. The recalcitrant top floor neighbors would get a similar letter.

KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550

Posted:

Wow, Jeff--I'd hoped you'd contribute! I wish I knew how to use AI.. I think it's crucial for it to know that some of the damage in Nancy's unit is from the common Area and some from the upstairs. neighbor. The PM has told Nancy that the Board won't fix the damage from the common area until the upper resident, whom I've been calling "the perp," gets his leak fixed. That, supposedly per the PM, is the cause of the HOA's failure to fix the damage due to the common area leak in Nancy's unit.

From NANCY'S CC&RS: "Section 3. Repair and Maintenance Duties of Association. The Association shall maintain, repair and make necessary improvements to, and pay for out of the maintenance funds to be provided, all Common Areas and the building thereon; all landscaping, corrective architectural and repair work within residencies; if the Owner fails to repair the areas subject to his control and duty to maintain; all metered utilities in Common Area; walks and other means of ingress and egress within the Project." To my eye, this says the HOA can enter the perp's Unit to make repairs since the Owners is failing to correct the problem..

What do you think, Jeff? Ellen?

So, Elle, I'm sure by now you've noticed the OP is in Washington State. So, Nancy, Calif. HOA materials may not be useful. Elle is much better than I in interpreting WA codes on HOAs. But she may need certain info first from you.

I'm leaving for the airport soon & won't be back to this, I do not think, until this evening. Onward!

JeffT2 (Iowa)
Posts: 880

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By KerryL1 on 05/06/2024 11:11 AM
Wow, Jeff--I'd hoped you'd contribute! I wish I knew how to use AI.. I think it's crucial for it to know that some of the damage in Nancy's unit is from the common Area and some from the upstairs. neighbor.

You'd be surprized how easy it is. I went to the main chat AI website. I am not mentioning the name due to posting rules, but it is easy to find. I entered the following, which can be changed to produce a better letter with additional input. (I don't have time to fine tune it):

write a letter to the board of directors of a condominium association that the current situation in my condo unit needs to be corrected. Include

Presence of mold is a health hazard
against the governing documents for this to continue
not fair.
not right
denied proper living condition
should not have to live like this
I don't want to take legal action
it cannot go on
it must be corrected
stop the delays
action must be taken right away

Then the AI generated the letter from this.

ElleN (Idaho)
Posts: 4,420

Posted:

Please disregard my earlier post. Wrong state.

NancyN2 (Washington)
Posts: 16

Posted:

Thanks everyone for your comments and advice.

KerryL1 - HOA size is 40 units. The PM has no office on premises.

The Board rules. Yes, they should. They do very lousy job. No annual meetings, no budgets, very little maintenance etc.

I sent a letter to HOA Board president 3 weeks ago about this. No response. I could send a second letter but what's the point really.

The president is not new to this and not uninformed about how to run the board, worked for another PM company in town for several years, been a president of our HOA for at least 5 years.

I left several messages with PM company last Friday and today. Nobody called back. I can go to the office tomorrow and try to speak with them. (If no more posted messages from me, I probably got arrested there for harassment lol).

Health Dept. - couldn't get a live person to talk to, left a message and waiting for a call-back.

As I was reading CC&R and bylaws, I came across a section "Administrative Resolution - Due Process". Recap: ... this process is to to minimize the necessity of seeking actions through the court of law, where there is a question of compliance by a member.... Basically if the owner is found in violation of xxx, the board can send them a notice of violation, and fine them an associated fine if there is one. That would be considered the first warning. It becomes the second warning when the same violation occurs within 14 days from the day the first violation is issued. When there becomes three violations in 30 days, the party will be requested to appear before the board. During the meeting the owner will given an opportunity to fully defend the violation and present evidence with regards to violation. Then the board will make a decision to either (1) allow the owner 10 day period to correct the violation with a follow up by the Board for proof of correction. If at that follow up time the owner is still in violation, the managing agent will start court procedures, (2) they start court procedures immediately.

Is the owner in violation of their duty to repair/maintain the unit? I would say yes, they should fix the leak but they didn't. However, they say they are willing to repair but waiting on insurance so I guess the board would find them not violating?

I assume any correspondence from my lawyer will be met with the owner replying "I'm waiting for insurance".

ElleN (Idaho)
Posts: 4,420

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By NancyN2 on 05/06/2024 12:45 PM
I assume any correspondence from my lawyer will be met with the owner replying "I'm waiting for insurance".

I would not assume this. I would hope the attorney's letter would point out, for example, that damage may very well be worsening; you are documenting everything); and the more time that goes by the more damages you will seek in a lawsuit.

The attorney might very well threaten to take the HOA and top floor owner to court instantly for an emergency injunction (where the court recognizes that time is of the essence and so rules very quickly on whether you are deserved at least some relief).

At least this would force the board and top floor owner (and the owner's insurer?) to explain themselves.

An order from the court that the HOA and the owner pay your attorney's fees is possible, depending on what Washington statutes and your CC&Rs say. But do not bet on this.

The question becomes: How much is this worth to you? Is it worth risking a few thousand dollars of attorney's fees, not knowing if the attorney can get results?

ElleN (Idaho)
Posts: 4,420

Posted:

If per chance this condo was built after 1990, then this part of the Washington Condo statute seems like something an attorney would quote to the HOA and the top floor owner:

" Except to the extent provided by the declaration, subsection (2) of this section, or RCW 64.34.352(7), the association is responsible for maintenance, repair, and replacement of the common elements, including the limited common elements, and each unit owner is responsible for maintenance, repair, and replacement of the owner's unit. Each unit owner shall afford to the association and the other unit owners, and to their agents or employees, access through the owner's unit and limited common elements reasonably necessary for those purposes. If damage is inflicted on the common elements, or on any unit through which access is taken, the unit owner responsible for the damage, or the association if it is responsible, shall be liable for the repair thereof."

See https://app.leg.wa.gov/RCW/default.aspx?cite=64.34.328

What year was this condo's declaration recorded with the county clerk?

MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836

Posted:

What if they are waiting insurance or a contractor? They may also want to sue the HOA. What response do you want versus the reality? It may be they have issues to overcome before they can allow the HOA or repairs to start. That is a possibility.

Former HOA President

DeanJ
Posts: 1,786

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By NancyN2 on 05/03/2024 4:16 PM
I have a question regarding HOA property mgmt. ability to lean on unit owners to allow access to the unit to perform repairs.

Top unit in my complex had a burst pipe in laundry room in February (very cold weather and no heat in the unit) and flooded 2 units below. Water did run for days and basically the middle of both units had to be gutted.

Same unit also has a leak in bathroom (discovered in April.) When they use their sink, water runs between units down to my condo and on the outside siding as well. Turns out that this was a long term water damage that damaged beams in my bathroom and parts of them have to be replaced. HOA prop. mgmt. scheduled a contractor to repair the leak upstairs and told me they will repair beams after that.

Contractors showed up to repair the leak in the upstairs unit. The unit owner's representative did not let them in. Note: the owners live out of state and rent the unit as AirBnB.

HOA claims they are willing to repair if they get access to the unit.

The owners claim they are willing to give access but they are waiting on insurance.

When I asked how long they expect to wait, HOA property. mgmt said they have to wait until the owners allow access. Told me they don't have any tools to force the owners to comply. I wrote a letter to HOA Board. No reply.

It has been 4 weeks since I reported the leak. This could drag on for months.

What options do I have to make upstairs owners to allow contractors to repair the leak?

Note on Prop. mgmt. company: there was no yearly Association Meeting for 3 years and condo owners did not receive Annual Budget & Reserves Report since 2021. The company is very lax when it comes to maintenance etc.

I would get an attorney and send the board, the management company and the other owner a letter stating they have 10 days to correct this issue or you inviting them to court for a judge to figure it out for them.

NancyN2 (Washington)
Posts: 16

Posted:

1982

NancyN2 (Washington)
Posts: 16

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By NancyN2 on 05/07/2024 10:18 AM
1982

What year was this condo's declaration recorded with the county clerk?

It was 1982.

Regarding Melissa's post about the owner waiting for insurance. Every home insurance insurance I ever had only covered losses from sudden and accidental events. Seepage or leakage from plumbing etc over a period of months or years were not covered. I don't know the details of the upstairs owner's policy but they may be waiting for a long time to only hear "no".

As I was preparing notes about all this for the lawyer, I realized that I don't have an address for the owner. The letter can be mailed to the unit. I doubt anyone is checking mail there.

GregoryT1
Posts: 315

Posted:

hi Nancy,

Your county should have public records and hopefully it is online accessible. The property tax records will have the current address of where the person actually conducts their business from. Usually it is another residence. Occasionally you might see an accountant office or lawyer office listed. In any case I think that might be an avenue to pursue to see the actual address. I had a neighbor next door who rented out their place. I had to track their actual address and found the property card. Others might have experience in tracing down the actual address.

ElleN (Idaho)
Posts: 4,420

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By GregoryT1 on 05/07/2024 2:16 PM

Your county should have public records and hopefully it is online accessible. The property tax records will have the current address of where the person actually conducts their business from.

I agree: Check the property tax records. They are always or almost always online free at the county web site.

Send the letter to the owner certified mail, return receipt requested.

You can also make a formal records request for the condo's membership list, which typically must include mailing addresses, pursuant to statutory records laws for nonprofit corps and condos. If you want instructions on how to make this request, post back.

ElleN (Idaho)
Posts: 4,420

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By NancyN2 on 05/07/2024 10:34 AM
<
What year was this condo's declaration recorded with the county clerk?

It was 1982.

For pre-1990 condos, scour this statute:
https://app.leg.wa.gov/rcw/default.aspx?cite=64.32

NancyN2 (Washington)
Posts: 16

Posted:

I searched property tax records when this adventure started back in February. The address they have is for the unit in my complex.

Thanks ElleN, I will check out the link you posted.

TamaraG7 (Florida)
Posts: 35

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By NancyN2 on 05/03/2024 4:16 PM
I have a question regarding HOA property mgmt. ability to lean on unit owners to allow access to the unit to perform repairs.

Top unit in my complex had a burst pipe in laundry room in February (very cold weather and no heat in the unit) and flooded 2 units below. Water did run for days and basically the middle of both units had to be gutted.

Same unit also has a leak in bathroom (discovered in April.) When they use their sink, water runs between units down to my condo and on the outside siding as well. Turns out that this was a long term water damage that damaged beams in my bathroom and parts of them have to be replaced. HOA prop. mgmt. scheduled a contractor to repair the leak upstairs and told me they will repair beams after that.

Contractors showed up to repair the leak in the upstairs unit. The unit owner's representative did not let them in. Note: the owners live out of state and rent the unit as AirBnB.

HOA claims they are willing to repair if they get access to the unit.

The owners claim they are willing to give access but they are waiting on insurance.

When I asked how long they expect to wait, HOA property. mgmt said they have to wait until the owners allow access. Told me they don't have any tools to force the owners to comply. I wrote a letter to HOA Board. No reply.

It has been 4 weeks since I reported the leak. This could drag on for months.

What options do I have to make upstairs owners to allow contractors to repair the leak?

Note on Prop. mgmt. company: there was no yearly Association Meeting for 3 years and condo owners did not receive Annual Budget & Reserves Report since 2021. The company is very lax when it comes to maintenance etc.

First of all, you don't live in an HOA (Home Owners Association) you live in a COA (Condominium Association) and from sound of it, your association is under a portfolio manager.

HOA's and COA's are governed by different statutes.

However, leaks/floods are considered emergency issues and the Board can force a unit owner to allow emergency access to repair the leak.

Enlist in the aid of a law firm who specializes in condominium law & start with a letter to the Board & cc the manager & management company.

TamaraG7 (Florida)
Posts: 35

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By NancyN2 on 05/03/2024 4:16 PM
I have a question regarding HOA property mgmt. ability to lean on unit owners to allow access to the unit to perform repairs.

Top unit in my complex had a burst pipe in laundry room in February (very cold weather and no heat in the unit) and flooded 2 units below. Water did run for days and basically the middle of both units had to be gutted.

Same unit also has a leak in bathroom (discovered in April.) When they use their sink, water runs between units down to my condo and on the outside siding as well. Turns out that this was a long term water damage that damaged beams in my bathroom and parts of them have to be replaced. HOA prop. mgmt. scheduled a contractor to repair the leak upstairs and told me they will repair beams after that.

Contractors showed up to repair the leak in the upstairs unit. The unit owner's representative did not let them in. Note: the owners live out of state and rent the unit as AirBnB.

HOA claims they are willing to repair if they get access to the unit.

The owners claim they are willing to give access but they are waiting on insurance.

When I asked how long they expect to wait, HOA property. mgmt said they have to wait until the owners allow access. Told me they don't have any tools to force the owners to comply. I wrote a letter to HOA Board. No reply.

It has been 4 weeks since I reported the leak. This could drag on for months.

What options do I have to make upstairs owners to allow contractors to repair the leak?

Note on Prop. mgmt. company: there was no yearly Association Meeting for 3 years and condo owners did not receive Annual Budget & Reserves Report since 2021. The company is very lax when it comes to maintenance etc.

First of all, you don't live in an HOA (Home Owners Association) you live in a COA (Condominium Association) and from sound of it, your association is under a portfolio manager.

HOA's and COA's are governed by different statutes.

However, leaks/floods are considered emergency issues and the Board can force a unit owner to allow emergency access to repair the leak.

Enlist in the aid of a law firm who specializes in condominium law & start with a letter to the Board & cc the manager & management company.

TamaraG7 (Florida)
Posts: 35

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By NancyN2 on 05/03/2024 4:16 PM
I have a question regarding HOA property mgmt. ability to lean on unit owners to allow access to the unit to perform repairs.

Top unit in my complex had a burst pipe in laundry room in February (very cold weather and no heat in the unit) and flooded 2 units below. Water did run for days and basically the middle of both units had to be gutted.

Same unit also has a leak in bathroom (discovered in April.) When they use their sink, water runs between units down to my condo and on the outside siding as well. Turns out that this was a long term water damage that damaged beams in my bathroom and parts of them have to be replaced. HOA prop. mgmt. scheduled a contractor to repair the leak upstairs and told me they will repair beams after that.

Contractors showed up to repair the leak in the upstairs unit. The unit owner's representative did not let them in. Note: the owners live out of state and rent the unit as AirBnB.

HOA claims they are willing to repair if they get access to the unit.

The owners claim they are willing to give access but they are waiting on insurance.

When I asked how long they expect to wait, HOA property. mgmt said they have to wait until the owners allow access. Told me they don't have any tools to force the owners to comply. I wrote a letter to HOA Board. No reply.

It has been 4 weeks since I reported the leak. This could drag on for months.

What options do I have to make upstairs owners to allow contractors to repair the leak?

Note on Prop. mgmt. company: there was no yearly Association Meeting for 3 years and condo owners did not receive Annual Budget & Reserves Report since 2021. The company is very lax when it comes to maintenance etc.

First of all, you don't live in an HOA (Home Owners Association) you live in a COA (Condominium Association) and from sound of it, your association is under a portfolio manager.

HOA's and COA's are governed by different statutes.

However, leaks/floods are considered emergency issues and the Board can force a unit owner to allow emergency access to repair the leak.

Enlist in the aid of a law firm who specializes in condominium law & start with a letter to the Board & cc the manager & management company.