💬 Join us to post & get advice from 50,000 HOA & Condo leaders.

Create Free Account →

⚡ Takes 30 seconds

Already a member? Log in

TerryG4 (Florida)
Posts: 7
Posted:
HB1203 is awaiting Govenor's signature.
ONE of the many changes is providing owners with copies of our CCRs/Rules & Regs
? If these legislative changes prevail over our written Declaration of Protective Covenants, Conditions and Restrictions
(CCRs) then why aren't the FL Statute changes considered Amendments?
These changes should become part of the HOAs governing documents, without 2/3 vote.
It's a state mandate.
What's the use of having OUR documents when the FL Statutes override them?

Can understand IF our gov documents do not address an issue. The FL Statutes can THEN be used.
Not the case of the hierarchy:
FL Statutes
CCRs
Articles of Inc.
ByLaws
Rules & Regulations

Our documents are now in conflict with the statutes

IF the problem is due to incompetency of the Board members, then why not have comprehensive TRAINING requirements for Directors?
I get it. The HOA corporation is run by volunteers!
Majority don't even know the difference between responsibilities of a Director and an Officer.
The GOV DOCs is not a training manual.

Bottom line is, most Director's will continue to do what they want!
WHO is going to stop them?
"Rules are only as good as enforcement."
Management co. can tell them the new rules, but it's a BOD decision.

How many Boards will inform all the owners of the changes?
WE would have to vote at a noticed meeting of the BOD, to make an Amendment to the RULES & REGULATIONS, not the CCRs! Amendments to Covenants etc take majority of owners!
Crazy!

Frustrated in Florida
Director/Officer

SheliaH (Indiana)
Posts: 6,964
Posted:
Maybe, maybe not. If the statutes mandate something that's already in the documents, you have nothing to worry about. It's not just the board that should know what the documents say - everyone in your community should read them so you'll know when your colleagues try to do something crazy. Then it's your fiduciary duty to speak up. The property manager works at the board's direction, so don't expect them to point this out.

You didn't say if you've read the statute, but it may only apply to associations that are established after a certain date. Read it yourself and compare with the appropriate section in your documents. If you have questions or concern, talk to the association attorney.

As for training, I've always believed in it for new and experienced board members, and there's no reason your board can't pursue it. Your attorney may be willing to do some training - our former attorney sponsored an annual training every year (including a steak dinner) for his clients. Some property management companies also sponsor training (ours did that several years ago, also serving dinner) you can also check out the CAI website which has lots of educational materials and I think they also have on demand webinars. There may even be local chapters in your area that sponsor training and you can meet other board members from other communities and learn from them.

If it is not right do not do it; if it is not true do not say it. Marcus Aurelius
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,062
Posted:
If the documents are in conflict, there is nothing that says the board can not include an eratta sheet with the documents.
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,062
Posted:
Per the analysis I posted a link to:

The bill:

Provides educational requirements for community association managers (CAMs) and HOA directors.

Provides that an HOA with 100 parcels or more is required to post certain official records on the
HOA’s website or application, by January 1, 2025.

Allows a parcel owner to make a written request for a detailed accounting of any amounts owed to the
HOA, and the HOA must provide such information or else the board forfeits any outstanding fine.

Requires that an HOA or its architectural, construction improvement, or other similar committee (ARC)
to allow homeowners to appeal a decision of the HOA or ARC.

Provides criminal penalties if an HOA officer, director, or manager accepts a kickback.

Prohibits an HOA from levying fines or imposing suspensions if a violation has been timely cured.

Prohibits certain fines from becoming a lien on a parcel such as: lawn, landscaping, grass
maintenance, and traffic violations.

Prohibits fines from being aggregated to create a lien against a parcel; and only allows an assessment
or a fine of less than 1 percent of a parcel's just value to become a lien against the parcel in certain
circumstances.

Prohibits HOAs from issuing fines to parcel owners based on traffic infractions that were not committed
by the parcel owner, based on leaving garbage receptacles on the street for a certain time period, and
based on leaving holiday decorations or lights up under certain circumstances.

Prohibits an HOA from preventing a homeowner from installing or displaying vegetable gardens and
clotheslines in areas not visible from the frontage or adjacent parcels.

Provides that without the approval of 60% of the voting members at a member meeting, the HOA may
not impose a regular assessment that is more than 10 percent greater than the regular assessment for
the HOA's preceding fiscal year unless it can be shown that a higher increase is necessary for property
protection and public safety, or special assessments that in the aggregate exceed 5 percent of the
budgeted gross expenses of the HOA for that fiscal year.
KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550
Posted:
Such a nice summery, Tim.

I thought that Fla. already required these: "Provides educational requirements for community association managers (CAMs) and HOA directors." I seem to recall that the training requirement for CAMs was maybe just 10 hours? I wish CA required training for both Community Managers, and boards.

I only see one minor one I might disagree with. I don't see anything about Rules & Regs.

Which one(s) bother you, TerryG?
JackS20 (North Carolina)
Posts: 271
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By TerryG4 on 04/13/2024 2:19 PM

What's the use of having OUR documents when the FL Statutes override them?
Frustrated in Florida
Director/Officer

what are you frustrated about? that new law looks awesome finally some protection from getting foreclosed upon becuase your grass was too tall.
JackS20 (North Carolina)
Posts: 271
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By TimB4 on 04/13/2024 3:38 PM
Per the analysis I posted a link to:

The bill:

Provides educational requirements for community association managers (CAMs) and HOA directors.

Provides that an HOA with 100 parcels or more is required to post certain official records on the
HOA’s website or application, by January 1, 2025.

Allows a parcel owner to make a written request for a detailed accounting of any amounts owed to the
HOA, and the HOA must provide such information or else the board forfeits any outstanding fine.

Requires that an HOA or its architectural, construction improvement, or other similar committee (ARC)
to allow homeowners to appeal a decision of the HOA or ARC.

Provides criminal penalties if an HOA officer, director, or manager accepts a kickback.

Prohibits an HOA from levying fines or imposing suspensions if a violation has been timely cured.

Prohibits certain fines from becoming a lien on a parcel such as: lawn, landscaping, grass
maintenance, and traffic violations.

Prohibits fines from being aggregated to create a lien against a parcel; and only allows an assessment
or a fine of less than 1 percent of a parcel's just value to become a lien against the parcel in certain
circumstances.

Prohibits HOAs from issuing fines to parcel owners based on traffic infractions that were not committed
by the parcel owner, based on leaving garbage receptacles on the street for a certain time period, and
based on leaving holiday decorations or lights up under certain circumstances.

Prohibits an HOA from preventing a homeowner from installing or displaying vegetable gardens and
clotheslines in areas not visible from the frontage or adjacent parcels.

Provides that without the approval of 60% of the voting members at a member meeting, the HOA may
not impose a regular assessment that is more than 10 percent greater than the regular assessment for
the HOA's preceding fiscal year unless it can be shown that a higher increase is necessary for property
protection and public safety, or special assessments that in the aggregate exceed 5 percent of the
budgeted gross expenses of the HOA for that fiscal year.

thanks for summary, looks great, hope it passes.
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,062
Posted:
The very first link I posted shows the bills progress.
On that page, click on the tab that says citations - this will show you the new wording for the sections of the 720 statute.

The bill was sent to the governor.
CathyA3 (Ohio)
Posts: 6,299
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By TerryG4 on 04/13/2024 2:19 PM
HB1203 is awaiting Govenor's signature.
ONE of the many changes is providing owners with copies of our CCRs/Rules & Regs
? If these legislative changes prevail over our written Declaration of Protective Covenants, Conditions and Restrictions
(CCRs) then why aren't the FL Statute changes considered Amendments?
These changes should become part of the HOAs governing documents, without 2/3 vote.
It's a state mandate.
What's the use of having OUR documents when the FL Statutes override them?

... snip ...


FWIW, when we had our CC&Rs amended to bring them into compliance with current state law, the amendment was approved by the board. The attorney provided the text of the amendment as well as an instruction letter with the text of the board resolution that needed to be put in our minutes, along with the vote result.

This makes sense. If state law overrides the CC&Rs, then a community vote is meaningless. Even if the membership was unanimously opposed to a particular provision in the state law, they still have to comply with it. (Exception: if the provision in the state law defers to the CC&Rs, then the CC&Rs prevail as long as they don't contradict some other provision. Wording matters.)
ElleN (Idaho)
Posts: 4,420
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By TerryG4 on 04/13/2024 2:19 PM
IF the problem is due to incompetency of the Board members, then why not have comprehensive TRAINING requirements for Directors?
Why re-invent the wheel?

Why not expect those who volunteer for anything to get a handle in advance on what they volunteer for?

Why not expect owners, who know in advance the HOA is subject to covenants, to be able to read the covenants?

Why not ask owners to exercise their rights to recall directors who are violating the covenants or statutes?

The line between a reckless system (here, the law of HOAs) and people who do not want to take responsibility for their choices has always existed.

I agree serving as a HOA/COA director is a big "ask." However I do wonder how much of the complaining these days is based on a culture of instant-this and instant-that, with people demanding easy answers and preferring to pay someone to find the answers for them, rather than taking the trouble to study and learn on their own.

Increasingly in so many areas of life one either has to be one's own advocate, or one has to suffer the consequences. Knowledge does not come cheap. Lack of knowledge is also expensive. Folks have to make a choice: Pay for their lack of knowledge, or get smart.
CathyA3 (Ohio)
Posts: 6,299
Posted:
I'll just note that board service is often a revolving door, which can mean almost constant training for some communities.

While it's a good thing if knowledge is spread throughout the community, it may not be so good if there's a cost associated with the training (I assume there will be). Large associations with fairly stable boards will be able to absorb the cost, but smaller ones with reluctant volunteers may find it a burden.
LoriM15 (Florida)
Posts: 1,009
Posted:
I am in the process of going over this bill, which the governor hasn't signed yet and maybe he won't. You never can tell.

There are some good things in here - it brings FS 720 into alignment with FS 718 (the condo statute). However, if there was ever a recipe for driving away more volunteers from HOA boards, this is it. We already had education requirements but now they will be more substantial. You will be required to not only certify that you took the course (which is usually a couple of hours) but you have to do continuing education. How many people are going to want to do that? And the course has to be developed by the state department, which means more taxpayer money wasted because there are plenty of law firms who already offer these courses and they are comprehensive.

There are criminal penalties against board members if documents aren't turned over within 10 days of a document request. The requirements for documents to be on the website is generally a good thing, but smaller HOAs are probably going to have a hard time with this if they don't have a PM.

Most of the changes in here codify things that most associations, including ours, already do - especially if you are using a reputable PM company.

The procedures for fining are spelled out better and that's a good thing. However, it does take some of the ability to use fines to force people to bring their homes up to the community rules and that's not good. Also, there are some restrictions on parking commercial vehicles that I think are a mistake.

The architectural regulations are similar to what is already done in most communities. However, this bill says that an association can't require that vendors for owners be licensed. This is a gift to all those unlicensed roofers who show up after a hurricane and steal money from people. They certainly didn't think that one out.

It's not a huge overhaul of the curent FS 720.303. But it is clearly a knee-jerk reaction to the big HOA scandals from the Miami area in the last couple of years. I'm attending a webinar on the 2024 legislative changes later this week so it will be interesting to hear the attorney's interpretation of this. There were a couple of really bad bills that were proposed that didn't get passed, so that's a little relief.

LoriM15 (Florida)
Posts: 1,009
Posted:
I spoke with our PMs regional manager tonight about this bill. He said that most of the HOA attorneys are saying they do not believe the governor is going to sign the bill.
TerryG4 (Florida)
Posts: 7
Posted:
Hope the attorneys are right!
Think this was a knee jerk reaction by people who don't really know what this involves!
TerryG4 (Florida)
Posts: 7
Posted:
Here in Palm Beach County, we have attorneys that provide FREE Certificates of Completion, which count for credits.
Our HOA provides quarterly flyers with information to help owners not have violation.
STILL, a few just won't pick up dog poop, or comply, even looking around community and seeing everyone else in compliance.
We can take the horse to water...can't make it drink!
TerryG4 (Florida)
Posts: 7
Posted:
Interesting.
We can't amend our CCRs (Declaration of Protective Covenants, Conditions and Restrictions)without 2/3 owner vote.
Our Rules and Regulations can be approved by the Board though, as an Amendment.
Still adds confusion if we don't stick to our CCRs and only use the FL Statutes when our CCRs are silent.
TerryG4 (Florida)
Posts: 7
Posted:
Not signed by Govenor yet.
HB1203 is 4 pages for Florida. see below
IMHO we should use our CCRs, and if our documents are silent, then use the Fl Statutes.
We put the sentence in our Rules & Regulations:
'we abide by the Fl Statutes, Ch 720, as amended from time to time', to cover us.
Same for Palm Beach County rules.
📎 Attachments (1):

⏸ Downloads temporarily unavailable

📄1429294931271.pdf(253 KB)
TerryG4 (Florida)
Posts: 7
Posted:
For us Ch 720
We have to have a noticed meeting of the Board.
Majority approval
as an Amendment to the Rules & Regulations
Can't Amend the CCRs without 2/3 vote
At the rate these Fl Statutes keep adding on every year, we'd have volumes!
Someone mentioned an 'overreaction' due to what happened in Miami, and I agree.

FL Statutes are fine if the governing documents are 'silent.'
TerriS6 (California)
Posts: 3,284
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By TerryG4 on 04/29/2024 4:21 PM
Interesting.
We can't amend our CCRs (Declaration of Protective Covenants, Conditions and Restrictions)without 2/3 owner vote.
Our Rules and Regulations can be approved by the Board though, as an Amendment.
Still adds confusion if we don't stick to our CCRs and only use the FL Statutes when our CCRs are silent.

It would be very expensive to revise the CC&Rs every time the law changes. A member vote isn't necessary when the state makes a new law. Whether or not your CC&Rs reflect it, the association still has to follow the law. As long as the board has current knowledge of the law changes, that's the main thing.

🎯 You've read this entire discussion

Join the conversation with 50,000 HOA & Condo Leaders:

  • ✓ Ask follow-up questions
  • ✓ Share your experience
  • ✓ Get expert advice
  • ✓ Access 350,000 discussions
Create Free Account →

⚡ Takes 30 seconds

Already a member? Log in here