Property management company

Started by ChristineS7 • 21 replies • 366 views

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ChristineS7 (Minnesota)
Posts: 58

Posted:

Hello, Our property manager was assigned 2 jobs, one was about 6 weeks ago, "please call the electrical contracting company and have them come install new lights at the back doors of both of our buildings." Six weeks later, the PM never contacted the electrical company. Another assignment was about 3 weeks ago, "we have animals getting into our attic space, please call our pest control company". She never placed a call to the pest control company. These are only 2 samples of the incompetent work provided by our property management company; we have a list of their shoddy work. How would you handle this?

MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836

Posted:

How is it incompetence? First off they do NOT pay for this work once contractor is contacted. Is it even in the scope of their work or contact? Are they responsible for hiring a contractor?

Plus we always had to have a board vote of approval before work is done. Meaning we must vote to spend the money out of the budget. Plus we had a 3 bid per job required.

Before you complain need to find out what the contract says and if the HOA is doing it right.

Former HOA President

MarkM19 (Texas)
Posts: 1,459

Posted:

Chrisine,
The only correct answer is to replace them asap. I would start by interviewing PMCs and have a list of expectations that the board expects. With limited information about your property and what the contract your board has in place it is hard to say just how poorly they are at doing the job. I think getting vendors to do maintenance is an easy expectation. As I have mentioned many times PMs are usually overworked and under paid so most work by emergency and if the board is not riding them another board is and that who gets the attention.

MichaelS56 (Minnesota)
Posts: 858

Posted:

The board President and Vice President of your Board should make arrangements for a meeting with the President and the property manager to have a meeting and review the concerns the Board has. Bring examples. When I was President, I setup a meeting with the President of the Management company and the Property manager for our HOA. I brought along our treasurer as our issue was keeping track of the budget.

JackS20 (North Carolina)
Posts: 271

Posted:

I went online and posted bad review on BBB, and other websites and forwarded it to property management company and threatened to make bad youtube videos.
then they sent us a letter saying they are cancelling our contract. I felt so lucky to stumble upon their weakness. Still upset we have to deal with their incompetence for another 6 weeks. Yesterday I discovered they forgot to pay the electrical bill for the 2nd time and the park doesnt' have electiricty now. And they still owe us about $1500, with no reply in weeks.

KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550

Posted:

This is, I believe, the 2nd or 3rd pot from Christine on this topic. Were there ZERO useful replies among all who responded to your previous posts? I DO recall, folks here were quite helpful.

RileyS (California)
Posts: 55

Posted:

Christine - I would suggest you start by getting a copy of your property manager's contract with your HOA and read it.

For example, our contract has this clause:

"if either party defaults in the performance of any of the terms or conditions of this
Agreement, the defaulting party shall have thirty (30) days after service of written
notice of such default upon the defaulting party, by the other party, in which to cure
such default by rendering satisfactory performance. Said notice shall delineate in
detail the specific default and what steps are necessary to cure the default. If the
default is not cured within such period of time, the other party shall have the right
without further notice to terminate this Agreement".

So in our case, we would start with a 'written notice of default" outlining the problems and what it would take to correct them.

TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059

Posted:

Christine,

Often, your PM is one of many within the MC.
Try contacting their supervisor directly and, if need be, ask for a different PM.

Melissa,

You are correct, it may not be incompetence. It simply could be laziness or choosing to give their time to a different client or personal issue.

MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836

Posted:

I am just saying when we called our treasurer we had to prove a vote and provide the vendor we wanted to use. Plus a contract. It was not like we called them and told them to hire someone. Our HOA was more involved in the decision making of whom we hired. There is not enough details in the post for me to know what the contract/relationship is with the PM.

BTW we have a PM at my new HOA and we are developer owned. They put it on us to bring them bids for lawn care. Although the person handling our account has now quit the PM. I can not tell if it was her incompetence as we can not change PM. I have had to take issues to her boss before. I know others were frustrated with her as well. It may require to ask to talk to the boss if you are President of HOA.

Former HOA President

MarkM19 (Texas)
Posts: 1,459

Posted:

In my current HOA which I have been the president of for the last 6 years. Our PMs take direction from our board and find vendors to get bids. Our community is large over 1450 SFHs. The reason we have management is because they should have trusted vendors that they have relationships with to do all tasks that are generally used in communities. We read and vet the proposals and make the final decisions on all bids, but the work of finding and vetting vendors is not a board function. We have a few very good vendors that have been with us for over 8 years and occasionally we get new ones that I can see being around long after I am gone. I would hate to see what a community would look like if boards (with sometimes little to no experience) would be looking for vendors.

I have said for many years HOAs are where poor vendors go to take advantage of communities. They know that PMs are just trying to get jobs done and boards in many cases are spending other people's money and do not look out for shoddy vendors. One of the values I bring to my board is I have over 39 years in and around many types of vendors. I can tell a bad one a mile away and I can also tell a good one quicker. I watch them all and am very selective. When I moved to Texas I knew no contractors, so I had to depend on managers to bring is vendors.

LoriM15 (Florida)
Posts: 1,009

Posted:

I second what Mark said. Our PM is responsible for finding the companies to give bids. Usually we ask for three, most of the time including the current vendor, then the board reviews the contracts and makes a decision. Many times we reject the contracts because we want to add or subtract something before the final decision.

Our PM not only has vendors he has used at other properties, he has a network of other PMs in his company and he asks for their recommendations. We don't always choose who he recommends and we definitely don't always go with the lowest bidder.

We have a large community too and that's what we pay the PM company to do - handle all the vendors. We have been burned in the past. Our last PM brought some people on board that we hired because she told them the competitor's price and had them beat it, plus she had our trust (misplaced, as it turns out). We found out later she got some kickbacks from vendors. However, one of the people she brought has been our best landscaping vendor ever.

Our board put up with too much crap from our last two PMs. I was way too nice in dealing with them and that's a lesson learned. We give our PM a list of what we need and he if he doesn't get it done, we call in his boss. I also feel comfortable going to the regional VP. They make a lot of money from our contract and I expect reasonable service for that money. For example, we were promised our monthly financials would be available by the 20th of the next month. They weren't showing up until the 25th or 26th. Our treasurer is very particular and likes them ASAP. We went back to the company and said you promised us before we signed that it would be the 20th. They agreed - and now we get our financials on the 20th.

CathyA3 (Ohio)
Posts: 6,299

Posted:

Did the assignments come from the board or from an individual board member acting on their own?

Were these things discussed in a board meeting and documented in the minutes?

Did the requests comply with the contracts your association has with the management company or with the individual providers, or are they outside the scope? Were the requests to the pest company large enough that the job should have been bid out? (By the by, getting rid of animals is a whole different ballgame from spraying for ants - many of the routine pest control companies in my area won't touch critters, not even mice.)

Is this new behavior or this it ongoing?

There can be circumstances in which the manager's (lack of) response was completely correct.

And if this actually was poor performance that has been going on for a while, where has the board been? It's their job to address lack of performance, either through discussions with the current management company or - if discussions produced no change - looking for a new management company.

FWIW, a scenario we sometimes see is that the board tries to keep costs down - because heaven forbid assessments go up - and they hire the low-cost provider. Then everyone expects top price performance for low price compensation. This seldom works well, especially in condos that generally have full-service needs.

(Lately our board has been snarking about the performance of the previous management company. Yo, board! They told you what they would provide. It was in the contract and on their website. You had a top performer prior to that whose fees were in line with area full service providers, but noooo - y'all wanted to save money. Complaining about the recently-departed company is actually a reflection on the board's decision-making.)

KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550

Posted:

I too, would like to see answers to City's questions: "Did the assignments come from the board or from an individual board member acting on their own?

Were these things discussed in a board meeting and documented in the minutes?

Did the requests comply with the contracts your association has with the management company or with the individual providers, or are they outside the scope?"

Again, without reviewing Christine's past post(s) on this very same topic, I seem to recall some looseness in how the Board makes decisions -- I may recall incorrectly.

JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By KerryL1 on 04/06/2024 1:28 PM
I too, would like to see answers to City's questions: "Did the assignments come from the board or from an individual board member acting on their own?

Were these things discussed in a board meeting and documented in the minutes?

Did the requests comply with the contracts your association has with the management company or with the individual providers, or are they outside the scope?"

Again, without reviewing Christine's past post(s) on this very same topic, I seem to recall some looseness in how the Board makes decisions -- I may recall incorrectly.

All valid questions.

KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550

Posted:

I'll fix my invalid typo. These are Cathy's questions.

KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550

Posted:

I'll fix my invalid typo. These are Cathy's questions.

ChristineS7 (Minnesota)
Posts: 58

Posted:

Our board already voted on and approved the work. The next step is for the PM to notify the vendor that the work has been approved by the board. The PM then sets the work date with the vendor and notifies the board of the work date. That is how our chain of command and work flow is outlined in our contract with our property manager. I can tell by reading this site that many HOAs function differently and different states have different laws about the relationship between the board and the PM. So, I should have been more clear about our protocol, and you should have been less presumptive.

ChristineS7 (Minnesota)
Posts: 58

Posted:

Yes, you recall incorrectly.

KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550

Posted:

Your sequence from board vote to direction to mgmt. to direction to vendor is how our Board works, too, Christine. The Board votes are note in meeting minutes, right?

KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550

Posted:

Your sequence from board vote to direction to mgmt. to direction to vendor is how our Board works, too, Christine. The Board votes are note in meeting minutes, right?

CathyA3 (Ohio)
Posts: 6,299

Posted:

I'll mention the pest control company thing again.

Removing animals is a whole different thing from spraying for roaches, and these things are generally handled by different companies. The company that has a contract to treat the property periodically for ants and roaches won't deal with raccoons in the attic. In my area, the wildlife handlers have to have special training and permits. So calling the regular pest control company wouldn't accomplish anything except waste everyone's time.

In addition, if you're dealing with 4-legged critters, not only do you have to pay the specialty company, you have to pay for repairs to prevent the critters from getting in again. These will very likely be unplanned expenses, meaning the board is going to have to figure out where to take the money from. This means discussion in a board meeting, and none of this happens immediately. It's frustrating if you have to listen to little varmints skittering around overhead at night, but that won't fix the problem any faster.

Nothing happens quickly in community associations. They're not like owning your own home outside of an HOA, where if something comes up you start calling around for service providers whenever you want. In community associations, the decisions have to be made by the board. And in states that require all decisions to be made in open meetings that owners can attend after being given proper notice, things can move even more slowly except for emergency situations. 'Tis the nature of the beast.

KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550

Posted:

Oh, I see yours to me, Christine. I'm sorry for my error.

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