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NormanF (Florida)
Posts: 1
Posted:
Does anybody have experience of a 55+ HOA community opting out and becoming an all-age community?
I cannot find any references online and wanted to know what procedures would be required and if there are any regulatory hurdles to overcome.
SheliaH (Indiana)
Posts: 6,964
Posted:
This is something that you should run by an attorney. I know that can be a bit of a drag and may be expensive, but you heed to do this right.

You might also want to take a look at the Fair Housing Act and Housing for Older Persons Act - there should be information about this on the HUD website.

If it is not right do not do it; if it is not true do not say it. Marcus Aurelius
DeanJ
Posts: 1,786
Posted:
There is no “opt out”. The community would have to amend its declaration which would require some form of a super majority vote of the owners. Most people who move to 55+ communities purposely and I doubt you will get the support make the changes.

ElleN (Idaho)
Posts: 4,420
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By DeanJ on 03/28/2024 7:00 AM
The community would have to amend its declaration which would require some form of a super majority vote of the owners. Most people who move to 55+ communities purposely and I doubt you will get the support make the changes.
I agree, with one large caveat: If the HOA/COA does not meet the HOPA requirements, and so no longer qualifies for HOPA protections, this puts the HOA/COA much closer to being legally opted out, without having to get a vote of the owners.

If the OP wants elaboration, then please ask.
GwenG (Florida)
Posts: 669
Posted:
Florida will treat an HOA that initially qualified for a 55+ exemption as a 55+ community but it has an 80/20 test rule on occupancy. The HOA is responsible for maintaining its qualification by determining that at least 80% of occupancy includes one person 55 yrs or older. Once the balance shifts and more than 20% of the occupants are under 55, it is automatically no longer a 55+ community and becomes an "all age or family community". Florida no longer requires HOA biannual updates of registrations and occupancy census. It's an honor system and is complaint driven.

This is not a problem until someone complains to HUD and can demonstrate some kind of damages. The declaration had better be bulletproof and consistent with HUD/HOPA law if there is a housing complaint based on age.
ElleN (Idaho)
Posts: 4,420
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By GwenG on 03/29/2024 1:07 PM
Florida will treat an HOA that initially qualified for a 55+ exemption as a 55+ community but it has an 80/20 test rule on occupancy. The HOA is responsible for maintaining its qualification by determining that at least 80% of occupancy includes one person 55 yrs or older. Once the balance shifts and more than 20% of the occupants are under 55, it is automatically no longer a 55+ community and becomes an "all age or family community". Florida no longer requires HOA biannual updates of registrations and occupancy census. It's an honor system and is complaint driven.

This is not a problem until someone complains to HUD and can demonstrate some kind of damages.
Proof of "damages" is //never// required to prevail in a Fair Housing Act-based dispute.
GwenG (Florida)
Posts: 669
Posted:
True. Anyone can file a HUD complaint and it will not cost a cent. It will be prosecuted if the investigation shows reasonable cause. The case can result in a sizeable damage and/or penalty award.
ElleN (Idaho)
Posts: 4,420
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By GwenG on 03/29/2024 7:07 PM
True. Anyone can file a HUD complaint and it will not cost a cent. It will be prosecuted if the investigation shows reasonable cause.
By "prosecuted," she means HUD will pursue a settlement between the complainant and HOA over several months, with arm twisting as appropriate. If the two parties cannot agree to a settlement, HUD may choose to file a lawsuit against the HOA, including using administrative law judges yada. The complainant can file a civil suit at any time, though this may change how HUD involves itself.

No entity is criminally prosecuted by HUD.
Quote:
Posted By GwenG on 03/29/2024 7:07 PM
The case can result in a sizeable damage and/or penalty award.
Just saying: Sizable is rare. It's more common that the complainant gets his/her attorney fees paid and maybe a small award, like $10,000 to $20,000.

By contrast, the HOA's total cost can be sizable, and so I think there is a deterrent effect. Unless the board consists of idiots. Which is not uncommon.
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059
Posted:
The proper way of "opting out" would be to amend your covenants.
GwenG (Florida)
Posts: 669
Posted:
I disagree with that. In FL, as in most states, the Covenants are a contract originally between the developer and subsequent owners. If the contract provides that the community is 55+, purchasers rightly expect that the neighborhood will be over 55+ retirees and the association could enforce that age restriction to the extent that governing documents and HUD permits. To amend the contract would be taking away a right or impairing a right running with the land. I don't think that owners can remove a vested right granted to other owners and an attempt to "amend" a covenant would actually be a material impairment of a contract and would provoke a legal dispute, if passed.
ElleN (Idaho)
Posts: 4,420
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By GwenG on 03/30/2024 6:39 AM
I disagree with that. In FL, as in most states, the Covenants are a contract originally between the developer and subsequent owners.
... and the association and all owners.

Quote:
Posted By GwenG on 03/30/2024 6:39 AM

If the contract provides that the community is 55+, purchasers rightly expect that the neighborhood will be over 55+ retirees and the association could enforce that age restriction to the extent that governing documents and HUD permits.
If the covenant has been repeatedly violated for many years, such that for one thing, HOPA protections are no longer enforceable, then arguably the covenant has been abandoned and might no longer be enforceable.

Quote:
Posted By GwenG on 03/30/2024 6:39 AM
To amend the contract would be taking away a right or impairing a right running with the land. I don't think that owners can remove a vested right granted to other owners and an attempt to "amend" a covenant would actually be a material impairment of a contract and would provoke a legal dispute, if passed.
If the covenant has been properly enforced over the years, then I agree a court might very well reject an amendment to remove this covenant as being "unreasonable," roughly for the reasons you tried to give.

"Vested right" is not the way I would describe land use covenants. I do not think the courts use this language either. For one thing, every Declaration I has includes an amendment clause. Believe me, courts have used amendment clauses to justify all manner of amendments, because the amendment clause gives buyers and owners notice that the covenants could change. However and as noted, huge changes/amendments are less likely to be enforced by the courts.
CathyA3 (Ohio)
Posts: 6,299
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By GwenG on 03/30/2024 6:39 AM
I disagree with that. In FL, as in most states, the Covenants are a contract originally between the developer and subsequent owners.
.... snip ...

Reasonably certain that lawyers would not agree. In many communities owners are allowed to pursue violations against neighbors who violate the covenants - which means there is some form of "contract" among the membership. This is can be true even during the developer control phase.
ElleN (Idaho)
Posts: 4,420
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By ElleN on 03/30/2024 9:59 AM
"Vested right" is not the way I would describe land use covenants. I do not think the courts use this language either.
Strike this; foul on me. It appears some appeals courts do use this phrase with regard to land use covenants and their amendment. Search:

"vested right" "covenant" "association" "amendment" site:https://law.justia.com/cases/
TerriS6 (California)
Posts: 3,284
Posted:
From DS.com

Breach of CC&Rs not Breach of Contract. CC&Rs are equitable servitudes and not a contract. An "equitable servitude" creates an obligation or encumbrance on land, enforceable in equity. Once recorded it runs with the land and continues to burden/benefit successor owners of the land and is enforceable without resorting to a breach of contract cause of action. (Franklin v. Marie Antoinette.) Attorneys filing actions to enforce the CC&Rs often make the mistake of suing for breach of contract instead of breach of CC&Rs. A breach of contract action is not appropriate because the formation of the CC&Rs did not involve (i) negotiation over the restrictions and duties imposed on owners, (ii) no offer and acceptance, (iii) no agreement regarding respective rights and duties (iv) no promise to perform, and (v) no valuable consideration exchanged. Nor can it be argued that CC&Rs are contracts of adhesion:

[A] major distinction between the typical adhesion contract and CC&Rs is that, once the homeowners have made their purchases, they ordinarily have the collective power to amend the CC&Rs to suit their changing needs. (Civ. Code, § 1355.) This is because the CC&R's, unlike most contracts, establish a system of governance. (Villa Milano Homeowners Assn. v. Il Davorge (2000) 84 Cal.App.4th 819, 827.)
GwenG (Florida)
Posts: 669
Posted:
Great post by someone who obviously knows a thing or two about contracts. Certainly covenants and contracts are not equivalent and you did an excellent outlining defining characteristics. I have always thought that functionally, covenants are a coercion contract that ties in to a purchase. I will try to find the case you cited and learn more.

My community was originally constructed as a land-owned campground and now is land-owned manufactured housing community. The original covenant was silent on age-restrictions as the community was not built as a retirement community but as a family campground. The covenants were later amended to have an age restriction. In my little world, this amendment was not properly enacted because it did not "amend" anything; it created a new covenant restriction after the fact. Despite that, it is age-restricted but it is a distinction without a difference since Florida allows an exception to the Fair Housing Act that allows 55+ communities to age restrict as long as the 80/20 rule is observed i.e. 80% occupancy by one person in the household is over 55. This is a constantly misunderstood concept and people get crazy if someone under 55 moves in.

But I digress. Covenants have been described as a promise to do or not to do something. HOA's sue homeowners who break covenants i.e. not pay assessments. I am unclear about how the 'covenants' lawsuit under these circumstances differs functionally from a contract breach. Perhaps you can help to explain. Thanks.
TerriS6 (California)
Posts: 3,284
Posted:
Here is the link https://www.davis-stirling.com/HOME/E/Enforcement-of-CC-Rs#:~:text=Breach%20of%20CC%26Rs%20not%20Breach,on%20land%2C%20enforceable%20in%20equity.

Is your association a corporation? The board's powers may be limited by the Articles of Incorporation. Covenants are one thing; the power to enforce them is totally separate. They can write whatever they want as a covenant but does the board possess the power to enforce them. Our board is limited by the Articles to enforcing matters concerning the roads and greenbelt.
ElleN (Idaho)
Posts: 4,420
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By GwenG on 04/01/2024 10:23 AM
Great post by someone who obviously knows a thing or two about contracts. Certainly covenants and contracts are not equivalent ... I am unclear about how the 'covenants' lawsuit under these circumstances differs functionally from a contract breach.
One is enforcing either a covenant or a contractual term. One goes to court for both. The difference is not significant in the least.
ElleN (Idaho)
Posts: 4,420
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By TerriS6 on 04/01/2024 10:42 AM

Is your association a corporation? The board's powers may be limited by the Articles of Incorporation. Covenants are one thing; the power to enforce them is totally separate. They can write whatever they want as a covenant but does the board possess the power to enforce them. Our board is limited by the Articles to enforcing matters concerning the roads and greenbelt.
Not if the Declaration gives the board other powers.

We have been over this before. You have said nothing to change my mind on the point.
TerriS6 (California)
Posts: 3,284
Posted:
The law supersedes the Declaration. If the association is a corporation, its powers are subject to any limitations in the Articles of Incorporation.
TerriS6 (California)
Posts: 3,284
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By ElleN on 04/01/2024 10:52 AM
Posted By GwenG on 04/01/2024 10:23 AM
Great post by someone who obviously knows a thing or two about contracts. Certainly covenants and contracts are not equivalent ... I am unclear about how the 'covenants' lawsuit under these circumstances differs functionally from a contract breach.
One is enforcing either a covenant or a contractual term. One goes to court for both. The difference is not significant in the least.

There is a huge difference.
ElleN (Idaho)
Posts: 4,420
Posted:
If one is a member of the bar and arguing before the Supreme Court, there may be some finer points.

Otherwise enforcement of a covenant is too similar to enforcement of a contractual term to split hairs over. The fact is people come here all the time asking what they can do when an owner or director violates a covenant. The answer is:

Go to court to get the covenant enforced.

We disagree. If you post something to change my mind, I will respond further.
GwenG (Florida)
Posts: 669
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By ElleN on 04/01/2024 10:53 AM
Posted By TerriS6 on 04/01/2024 10:42 AM

Is your association a corporation? The board's powers may be limited by the Articles of Incorporation. Covenants are one thing; the power to enforce them is totally separate. They can write whatever they want as a covenant but does the board possess the power to enforce them. Our board is limited by the Articles to enforcing matters concerning the roads and greenbelt.
Not if the Declaration gives the board other powers.


Thank you for the link; I will read. The Association is a FL not for profit corporation. Its governing documents hardly apply to anything because they were written for a transient campground; in fact, only camper RV's were permitted to occupy property. Along the way, falsely enacted amendments have fouled the documents to force a square into a round hole. There is no enforcement power except to sue. We have no fining authority. We have no foreclosure authority. We have no rules. Just SUE. It is a very litigious environment and the board regularly threatens with violation letters and "attorney letters" to intimidate owners to their will.
ElleN (Idaho)
Posts: 4,420
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By TerriS6 on 04/01/2024 12:20 PM
The law supersedes the Declaration. If the association is a corporation, its powers are subject to any limitations in the Articles of Incorporation.
Nope, not accurate.

For California, Civil Code 4205 flatly states that where the AoI conflict with the Declaration, the Declaration controls.
TerriS6 (California)
Posts: 3,284
Posted:
The law takes precedence over Declaration.

Cal. Corp. Code § 5140
Download PDF
Current through the 2023 Legislative Session.
Section 5140 - Powers
Subject to any limitations contained in the articles or bylaws and to compliance with other provisions of this division and any other applicable laws, a corporation, in carrying out its activities, shall have all of the powers of a natural person, including, without limitation, the power to:
TerriS6 (California)
Posts: 3,284
Posted:
The poster is in Florida but there may be similar provisions limiting the board's power.
ElleN (Idaho)
Posts: 4,420
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By TerriS6 on 04/01/2024 1:33 PM
The law takes precedence over Declaration.

Cal. Corp. Code § 5140
Download PDF
Current through the 2023 Legislative Session.
Section 5140 - Powers
Subject to any limitations contained in the articles or bylaws and to compliance with other provisions of this division and any other applicable laws, a corporation, in carrying out its activities, shall have all of the powers of a natural person, including, without limitation, the power to:
Nope. This is a misreading of what the laws say. Fact: If the Corp. Code conflicts with the Davis-Stirling Act, the Davis-Stirling Act controls. The D-S Act in turn defers frequently to the Declaration.

Nationwide rule for conflicts between statutes: The more apposite (a.k.a. the 'more specific') statute controls.
ElleN (Idaho)
Posts: 4,420
Posted:
TerriS6, you are posting grossly incorrect information about a HOA's powers under the law. The thread is derailed at present. If TerriS6 posts something that changes my mind, I will post back. Else I reject all else she/he says on this topic.
MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836
Posted:
Just this post? It is most of them.

Former HOA President
TerriS6 (California)
Posts: 3,284
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By ElleN on 04/01/2024 1:44 PM
Posted By TerriS6 on 04/01/2024 1:33 PM
The law takes precedence over Declaration.

Cal. Corp. Code § 5140
Download PDF
Current through the 2023 Legislative Session.
Section 5140 - Powers
Subject to any limitations contained in the articles or bylaws and to compliance with other provisions of this division and any other applicable laws, a corporation, in carrying out its activities, shall have all of the powers of a natural person, including, without limitation, the power to:
Nope. This is a misreading of what the laws say. Fact: If the Corp. Code conflicts with the Davis-Stirling Act, the Davis-Stirling Act controls. The D-S Act in turn defers frequently to the Declaration.

Nationwide rule for conflicts between statutes: The more apposite (a.k.a. the 'more specific') statute controls.

Nobody mentioned a conflict.
TerriS6 (California)
Posts: 3,284
Posted:
The poster is in Florida. My suggestion was to check the Articles of Incorporation. Not only could it define what the powers are but it should state the purpose of the corporation is. Maybe like California, it defines a specific purpose in addition to the purpose. There might be some good material there for the poster to use.
MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836
Posted:
That has nothing to do with it being a 55 plus community. Our purpose is to maintain our lawn care. That is our HOA Purpose and responsibility.

A 55 age limits falls more along the lines of defining as a retirement community. One would know that a purchase there would not be for families with young children. There would not be a school bus route in that neighborhood.

Former HOA President
JanetB2 (Colorado)
Posts: 4,219
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By GwenG on 03/30/2024 6:39 AM
I disagree with that. In FL, as in most states, the Covenants are a contract originally between the developer and subsequent owners. If the contract provides that the community is 55+, purchasers rightly expect that the neighborhood will be over 55+ retirees and the association could enforce that age restriction to the extent that governing documents and HUD permits. To amend the contract would be taking away a right or impairing a right running with the land. I don't think that owners can remove a vested right granted to other owners and an attempt to "amend" a covenant would actually be a material impairment of a contract and would provoke a legal dispute, if passed.

Gwen …. In virtually every state the homeowners can amend the CCR’s and the new amended set of CCR’s as properly amended and filed with the county records would supersede any prior CCR’s. If done properly with proper vote and legally filed any legal dispute would fail. Tim is correct … the right way to make changes as noted by the OP is to amend their CCR’s.

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