Director + 2 HOA members running for Board

Curious question: Our HOA PM received member applications for our annual election(3 Directors). I am running for my 3rd term and encouraged 2 interested + concerned members to also run
FYI, existing 2 BOD are Rogue and unconcerned about transparency, illegal fees, etc. etc, etc. Myself and the 2 members are running as a Team, encouraging members to use their 3 votes for us 3. We each mentioned each other in our allowed 150 word statement that accompanies our application. NOTHING was mentioned of the existing 2 Rogue Directors in our pre-election statements. I have no idea if they even submitted an app to rerun? On some ????website I recently read "a Director should never support anyone else on the ballot. STAY NEUTRAL!" Poor meeting turnout (apathy) and Director confidentiality has most members (140) believing LIFE IS WONDERFUL, and until it affects them, no worries!! I recruited 2 excellent candidates and we are hoping to get the 3 votes each member is allowed(old documents!) Did I violate any CA code by "team building" for our election end of May/early June?

Melissa, I appreciate your take on this but let me put a more accurate spin here. There is a 50 year age gap between my 2 running mates and self. Friends, yes...close friends?, no! I have lived in my SFH HOA (140) for 22 years, with prior Director + committee tenure. These 2 younger owners attended several member meetings @ my home and were equally disturbed by what took place. Yes, last year I asked them if they would consider running for our BOD(3) and have mentored them on our governing documents, Davis-Stirling, CA codes.
They are very aware of the leadership qualities that are appropriate for this volunteer, year commitment. They are equally aware that we are not joined at the hip. We each bring
our own opinion and vote to the meeting. With member apathy rampant, recruiting is a good thing IMHO!

Let us put it this way... Read what you wrote and ask would you vote for this person? Are those words what you want to hear from another candidate? I want my friends to get on the board with me so can throw out bad leadership in their opinion? It comes across as Dictator and friends... Not intentionally but that can be what people hear. Keeping it neutral and individual is best.

If your board has proposed an amendment to your declaration, they aren’t supposed to support and lobby for the passage?

Thanks Melissa, Shelia, CathyA3, and Dean J. I knew this was/is a "real but confusing issue" and appreciate your comments. Basically, it's a given if you want CHANGE, JUMP IN THE POOL USING YOUR BEST STROKE. I used the word NEUTRAL, describing a quote from a legal website-ie:"openly support no one"; Since we are running as a team of 3 for our 3 Board positions,
the unspoken message most likely is the other 2 Directors stink; I'm ok with that! I'm counting on the need to shake the rug for our soon-to-be elections. It's easier for an incumbent to get re-elected than newbies, which perpetuates bad governance, including from well-paid PMCs. Dean mentioned a pertinent concern and I'm happy to say "NO admendments or special voting in near future." I promise a F/U after election results, Early June.

I've never seen anything hindering one director from endorsing others or running as a team especially when that team has the potential of solving problems that members are concerned about.

Melissa, Please read carefully. I'm not preventing amendments or special voting; there is nothing pending, on the agenda, or "at this moment" suggested.

General comments:

* Board members have to be concerned about optics. Even if you're completely in the right about something, it can read wrong to the community and you'll pay the price for it. (A friend of mine used to refer to this as "dying in full possession of the right-of-way".)

* You need to be pragmatic. It's entirely possible that some of the folks who don't like or think are incompetent will end up on the board. You'll need to figure out how to work effectively with these folks, and it's easier if you haven't burned any bridges ahead of time. It's especially true if these newly-elected folks are allies who then ice you out. Your vote doesn't count any more than theirs just because you have more experience. In fact, experience can hurt you if you have a newbie director who thinks they know everything and nobody is going to tell them what to do. (Ask me how I know this.)

Namaste to HOA world's very own (sober version of) "Nurse Jackie." Or the sober brain surgeon version?

Same thing.

JackieB4, I applaud your determination to get things as right as possible.

I remind others that this is a three-person board. Three. At present and based on numerous accounts from JackieB4, two of the three directors are rogue. If two directors continue after the election as rogue, then I opine: Nothing ventured, nothing gained. If JackieB4 gets herself and even one other normal (okay, extraordinary) person like herself elected, then I call this a sign that things will be much better in the future.

You don't have to be afraid of them, necessarily. But don't underestimate the realities of being outnumbered. You'll watch the board vote for things you know are wrong, and you won't be able to do anything about it. And you may be limited in how openly you can oppose this - other owners can criticize away, but your criticism can be viewed as undermining board decisions.

And don't forget that if an angry owner sues the board over something, you'll get sued right along with them. If you say that you didn't agree with whatever it was, they'll say "why didn't you do anything about it" - conveniently forgetting that being outvoted means being outvoted. There is no winning this.

I actually stepped down when I found myself outnumbered by two other board members who seemed determined to get us sued. I couldn't stop them while I was on the board, but I had fewer limitations on my behavior when I was off it.

I am glad you are going forward. Did not want you to take it the wrong way. I have lived and breathed under the 'lens'. Just wanted you to realize that your good intentions could be viewed by other eyes. It is a fine line between leadership and dictatorship.

As with Cathy's HOA, our board checked with our attorney long ago about campaigning for self or others for board elections. We were assured that as individual HOA members, we had every right to campaign. So, imo, Jackie's doing the right thing. I agree with Shleia that a Candidate Night would be perfect in Jackie's situation. but I on't this hr HOA has a room for one.

Whether or not it's wise or even helpful to campaign depends on the situation. I ran several times and was always elected. I usually counted on the verbiage in my Candidate Statement that went to all owners. One election, another director seeking reelection put flyers under doors with very negative remarks about me, and which had serious errors about our finances. I made a brief flyer correcting her financial errors, and saying that is why I should be reelected, not her She lost. That's the only remotely "negative" campaigning I did.

Here are two approaches from our 200+ unit center-city condo building.

Faced with an ignorant & arrogant board of 7 many years ago, we newer owners formed a small group, learned our Bylaws, and chose 3 of us to run for the Board. We ran as individuals in the sense that our "Candidate Statements" that went out to owners did not and (should legally not) support other candidates, but made positive statements about "goals" for the HOA, etc.

We 3 then sent out a joint letter to all owners. A friendly, smiling pic of each of us was at the top of the mailer. We presented our joint goals all in a positive light, while indicating Improvements, e.g., transparency. In the letter, we made it clear that each of us was an "independent thinker," yet we had a "shared vision" for our community (a. warm fuzzy word to use). So, imo, in this case a joint letter was appropriate and effective as I think it is in Jackie's situation.

We were elected. On a board of 7 we 3 usually were in the minority, tho' one remaining director often voted with us. We nagged the ignorant Board members heavily to follow our Bylaws & state statutes about open meetings. The next annual election saw us in the majority.

Fast forward several years. Again, newer owners ran for the Board and with no opposition, we almost overnight had a rude, arrogant Board majority who wanted to launch a hugely expensive project that many owners felt hadn't been researched adequately (it hadn't), and the funding of which would seriously dent our reserves. I was the only director who don't follow others down this rabbit hole. As with Jackie, I did make sure my no votes were recorded in the minutes. At the next election, with my term expiring, I didn't seek reelection. I did think I was "retiring" after 12 years on the Board, and had 3 months of travel aboard during the next year.

One director remained on the Board who partially shared my views and a new director also did. But they were outnumbered 5-2. I went off to distant lands, but kept in touch and realized the Board majority was getting worse & worse in its behavior towards owners and in its insistence to go though with the huge project. Knowing that there were 3 board seats up in Oct., all belonging to abusive board members, I was urged to run again. With two likely allies on the Board, and at least one running whom would be an ally, and maybe a 2rd, I ran for election.

This time, though, I was well known in the HOA. I'd been a really active director, and not all of my initiatives were embraced by all HOA members. I had a handful of enemies, including 4 then-board members. So I campaigned completely on my own with no mention in my writings of the the 2 I wanted to see elected. sent out a letter and placed a campaign flyer under unit doors. I didn't want to harm their chances. I did promote them in private to many owners whom I knew trusted me. The 3 encumbents sputtered miserably at "Candidates Night" when asked about the huge project. They did not campaign at all. They lost.

We 3 won. Their project was severely reduced in scope. Open Board meetings once again became welcoming sites for owners with the help of an excellent president who was a skilled presider.

So, with my ramblings. I hope I didn't obscure my main point, which is HOA campaigns' strategies can differ a lot depending on the situation both at the very micro level and also at the HOA-wide more macro level.

We've never run as a "team" in my community. When I was on the board, I was very careful to not influence the outcome of votes - even when this ended up hurting us, as in the case of the failed rental restriction amendment.

The issue is that, as someone else noted, the mechanics of this are no different from a budding "cabal" of owners who want to take over the community. And "rogue" is very much in the eye of the beholder, at least in the eyes of the average homeowner. It means something specific to the experienced long-time posters on this site, but to many homeowners it will mean "people who won't do what I want them to do". Something like this is gift to folks like the group that ended up running off our entire board last year, since it seems to support their narrative of a board that's up to no good.

Note that all of this is optics. It says nothing about the merits of anyone's ideas.

I'll also note that "team building" often is used in the context of the entire board. It does not mean "one disgruntled director who is being outvoted and decides to oust the other directors". That happened in my community, although in our case the disgruntled director was actually the rogue. We're still feeling the effects of that person's Reign of Ignorance. So: same actions, different outcome. Do the ends justify the means here?

Yes, politics happens and people build alliances throughout their communities. But I think it can be touchy when directors campaign openly for others since their opinions carry weight (for good and for ill). I wouldn't do it.

I love each of your comments and sharing of past experiences. So here's a quick update. Ballots have been received, with May 15 as the Count Date. The 2 Current "Rogue" Directors
aren't running. But the most Rogue/obnoxious one has his wife (who never attended a meeting or vol. for any committee) on the ballot. There is a 5th candidate (nice guy) who is her neighbor, and I suspect "innocently" was talked into running. He's been a 22 year member with no obvious HOA involvement (meetings/committees.) and used his brief BIO to say how he enjoys the community and is running "to meet more people." It's an honest & admirable comment...if we had an ethical PMC. If we(team) get elected, I hope he will join a committee.
BTW- Tonight will be the final meeting of the 2 rogue directors.

Today's "likeable" homeowner is tomorrow's board member who messes up six ways to Sunday. We had a very "likeable" director (at least to all of the other dog owners), but boy did she leave a trail of damage in her wake.

Personally I prefer a grump who actually knows what they're doing.

Just sayin'...

Over 14 years on my Board of 7 of a complicated HOA (high rise, twin towers, 3 reserve entities, a "commercial owner of about 5% of our assoc.), and having served with 30+ directors, I feel qualified to strongly state that candidates who've never attended Board meetings or served on committees are the weakest most ineffective board members of all with whom I've served.

I can only think of three, and only one of them showed any interest in our governing documents. None ever grasped our finances. None showed any intuitive or had any useful ideas. Two didn't even complete their 2-year terms.

So, Jackie, IF the two on your slate have any committee experience or attend board meetings, I'd highlight that in your next flyer. Such activity shows a genuine interest in your community.

Sounds like good, solid campaigning, Jackie.

Hope you final board meeting with the two rogue directors was, um, useful.

Our scheduled annual election for 3 Directors, May 15, received 59 ballots (140 SFH); we needed 71 or 72 (?) but met the required ballots for second attempt ...so TODAY was the official ballot count with Inspector of Elections. One of my team + myself won, along with the WIFE of current Rogue President. We(TEAM) knew entering "as a team" getting the members to VOTE was a huge challenge, along with diluting the votes: 1-1-1 vs 3 for a candidate. We ran an honorable campaign (previously mentioned), with WIFE passing out flyers asking for the 3 votes, and suggesting #5 candidate would be her second choice, and a large section with erronious info about me. I did not respond!!!!!

Totals: 59 ballots received, but only 57 eligible for count. WIFE of current President = 51
ME = 45
Team Mate = 34
Team Mate = 30
Nice guy, wants to meet people = 11
____
171
We had a 50 % increase in ballots received. YIPPEE! The 2 of us make quorum. BIG YIPPEE!!!
June 18 is our next meeting, with officers being determined. Team Mate (30) has shown interest in possible committee work; I am hoping to convince NICE GUY (11) of the same.
Onward!!!
PS- thanks to all for your advice and opinions. I love HOATalk.

Jackie congrats! !!!!!

This campaign is what other folks (op who post for issues) should be doing. Instead of complaining start running. In your case running again. Is it possible in another thread to detail what issues where in the old regime and what is the new team going to address. Also down the line keep us posted on the challenges and accomplishments that has happened. This type of information will be very helpful for new folks (like me) who are learning to navigate these situations.

Greg, "learning to navigate theses situations" is endless. PICK YOUR BATTLES is my mantra; this doesn't mean selective enforcement with your documents, rules, etc.
To answer your question about what issues were in the old regime"...here goes!

Summer of 2022, I submitted an ARC appl. to replace my sideyard 35 year old wooden fences with upscale Vinyl (light-tan color to avoid sunglare/reflection. (my expense). Neighbor wouldn't sign off because she wanted white vinyl. ARC/BOD wouldn't approve without neighbor approval (fence started to sag... I had a dog). Legal agreed with BOD not to approve. I had my property surveyed (fence on my property by 4 ft = me/owner and none of our documents supported legal decision.) Then came the "OOPS" and an update on our MAINTAINENCE MATRIX by current Board. This peaked my interest on our leadership, so I ran/elected to Board.

Next issue, an owner was asked to submit a $485. "Maintenance Agreement fee" with her ARC application to install a small strip of artificial turf at her front entrance. My prior committee/BOD experience knew this MA didn't exist. I researched prior mtg minutes + website Portal and nothing discovered? I asked my fellow directors (2) + PM for clarification. After much "we're looking into it" and no info provided, I was blindsided with an Emergency meeting of 2 Directors, PM, + legal, to CENSURE me. I was not included, nor allowed to attend. I had violated nothing; this was meant to intimidate me-LOL! Now my alert-antennas were having seizures! When I asked for validation of where this MA FEE landed and how many were charged/paid it, we suddenly had a new PM, the PMC owner. Four months later, new (inexperienced and "working on my certification" person) became our new PM. More excuses about when/why/how/where the MA fee ($485). Rogue BOD refused to discuss it in open session.

A More recent issue, neigbor was told her ARC appl. to paint her home (SFH) had to select options from the PAINT PALETTE. So her selection was unapproved. More online research showed
nothing, no paint palette. My bringing this to Rogue BOD (2) brought "we'll look into it."

Equally disgusting, was PMC and BOARD ignoring our ANNUAL elections in May. In 2023, the excuse was "Read your bylaws. You are every 2 years." In 2024, the excuse was (new PM)
"Im recovering from Covid...sorry."

As a sidebar, Rogue Board has kept bimonthly meetings @ 4pm, ignorning requests of working members, mostly driving home, picking up childcare, etc. To add some humor to this heavy subject, Board approved lawn signs (day of meeting) for our onsite location (my home). HOWEVER, my address couldn't posted...to show where to attend in our community? Additionally, the day of our bimonthly meeting OFTEN CHANGED, confusing members who planned on attending. BTW, we are well funded and 6 signs cost under $200.

New BOD, hopeful expectations. Hopefully, we initiate and receive a survey (140 SFH) about expectations/concerns. Review and decide! Next, evaluating ALL our vendors for financial transparency and honesty.

thanks Jackie. All the best and in a year or so give us a thread and the scoop on how things are going.

From what you've written in the past and here, Jackie, it seems to me some early improvements that should be easy now that you have a board majority are:

At your required (per your state law & maybe your Bylaws) "organization meeting," of the Board, you directors vote on a "regular meeting" time. Ours is Last Tues. of the. month, 6p and used to be 5, too early for some owners. Our contract with our PM's MC includes him attending Board meetings and writing meeting minutes up to two times a month later than 6pm.

Re: Organization Meeting. Usually it's held immediately after the Ann. Mtg. or within a day or two. The reason is your Board at present has no officers. Do consider holding a special meeting of the Board much sooner than mid-June with the required 4 days' notice. Meanwhile, what's to keep wife of previous rogue director (please give her a name) from giving instructions to your PM??? MC contracts often have a clause that says the board president is the liaison between the Board and the PM. This keeps random directors (our HOA has 7) from all trying to direct him.

Order the PM to eblast all owners notice and an agenda 4 days in advance (per state law) of the time/date/location of Board meetings. We know they must only be posted, but you don't have a good place to post it (as I recall?).

So some "housekeeping" can give you a good start on transparency without involving conflict with the wife of former rogue director.

Does your HOA have a website where meeting minutes, agendas, contracts are posted for owners to review? To me, this is another element of openness.

(BTW, surely your Bylaws do not say that Annual meetings are every two years????? Do they?)

Onward!

I'm a bit late to the topic, but I totally support the idea of running as a team. In my HOA, many of the members find endorsements helpful.

In my HOA most people are laid back, and don't want to heckle people. But those kind of people don't want to be on the board. So the small number of people wanting to be nit picky are the most likely to be willing to serve on the board. We allow 9 bard members (for 59 houses!) so most years the 4-6 people willing to be on the board are automatically on and the vote is pointless. Its rare to have more than 1 or 2 non-board members attend the annual meeting. Put all that together, and the board is rarely aligned with the members.

So every few years the hecklers overreach and stir things up. Then we get some new faces on the board for a while until things calm down.

Last year we got everyone VERY upset. Most of the HOA came to the annual meeting and about a dozen ran for the board. In the 16 years I've lived here there was only 1 other time that approached this turnout. Leading up to the meeting there were lots of conversations happening to figure out who vouches for who being reasonable. No one cared about who's "friends" it was all about who trusts who to be a moderate.

Personally I found the endorsements unnecessary because its safe to assume that all the new faces are there because they're mad about the current contraversy. So I know where they stand without endorsements. But newer people who don't understand the nature of our HOA and its cycles value the endorsements to help them know how to vote.

If your voter turnout is low, and if your docs allow proxy voting, the 3 of you can recruit everyone you know to authorize you to vote on their behalf as a proxy. Most years in my HOA if someone wanted to gather proxy authorizations they could decide the board.

With new postings, here's the quick update. I won, 1 teammate one, and wife of Rogue Pres. won. In 4 days we hold our ORGANIZATIONAL MEETING for officer selection. I also held a
"meet/greet" for the 3 of us @ my home. It was nice, well-received and no spitting/clawing. It lasted about 90" and was simply to learn about each other: NO decisions made, except possible meeting dates/times that worked best for the 3 of us.