Board notifies my wife whenver I email the board

BradS10
Posts: 34

Posted:

Washington state HOA covered by RCW 64.38 and RCW 24.03A.

Any time I email the board, they send an email notification to my wife stating thank you for contacting us. It seems really weird. I have not heard about this happening to any of the other neighbors. Could i force them to stop?

KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550

Posted:

My wild & crazy hunch is that you're emailing the Board far more frequently than directors prefer. The "thank you" to your wife is in hopes she'll, um, gently encourage you to cut waaaaay back.

No. You cannot make them stop. WHO actually emails her? A director?

BradS10
Posts: 34

Posted:

Its an automated reply. I think it may only be set up for me. I have a very good reason to email them when i do. Things like requesting meeting minutes 4 months after meetings. Asking when the next x committee meeting is and such.

MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836

Posted:

Out of curiosity what email account are you using? Is it yours or shared account with wife? Is she the owner on the deed? My email I use does not have my real name with it. I set it up to display another name. Email yourself to see what it appears as.

Former HOA President

SheliaH (Indiana)
Posts: 6,964

Posted:

Is this information (e.g. meeting date and time) posted on a community website? If so, why aren't you looking there first instead of contacting the board?

I think Melissa and Kerry make good points - it could be the email you use and/or you're emailing the board a lot more than what's necessary. And I think you're being paranoid about you being targeted (there are more...interesting ways to get back at people).

If this is causing static between you and your wife, you two will need to figure out how to address it. In the meantime, if there are other ways to get information, use them. That shouldn't stop you from attending board meetings and listening to the proceedings.

If it is not right do not do it; if it is not true do not say it. Marcus Aurelius

CathyA3 (Ohio)
Posts: 6,299

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By MelissaP1 on 03/22/2024 10:30 PM
Out of curiosity what email account are you using? Is it yours or shared account with wife? Is she the owner on the deed? My email I use does not have my real name with it. I set it up to display another name. Email yourself to see what it appears as.

My association has my dearly-departed pet's email address, and they keep calling me by her name. :-)

In the OP's case, the association almost certainly has the wife's email address as the contact on their account, so that's who they respond to.

Just because something looks odd doesn't mean there are dark deeds afoot. Hatching and executing plots takes time and mental effort, and managers just want to do their danged job already and move on to the next task (especially if they're a portfolio manager and have way too many communities to manage).

TerriS6 (California)
Posts: 3,284

Posted:

Yes you can make them stop if your wife sends a written message to the board advising them not to contact her by email.

BradS10
Posts: 34

Posted:

The board usually doesn’t post meeting minutes on the website until a year later. They almost never notify home owners of board meetings. If it was available I would not ask. They think it’s ok because it’s the way they have always done it.

BradS10
Posts: 34

Posted:

It’s my personal email and not shared. Other neighbors don’t have the same experience.

TerriS6 (California)
Posts: 3,284

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By BradS10 on 03/22/2024 9:36 PM
Its an automated reply. I think it may only be set up for me. I have a very good reason to email them when i do. Things like requesting meeting minutes 4 months after meetings. Asking when the next x committee meeting is and such.

Don't take too seriously posters here who say you may be emailing the board too often. It is typical for a board who thinks it is above scrutiny to ignore legitimate requests of members.

SheliaH (Indiana)
Posts: 6,964

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By BradS10 on 03/23/2024 8:09 AM
The board usually doesn’t post meeting minutes on the website until a year later. They almost never notify home owners of board meetings. If it was available I would not ask. They think it’s ok because it’s the way they have always done it.

Well then, instead of focusing on the emails, why not go out and talk to your neighbors about untimely posting of meeting minutes or announcing the next meeting. In my community, we have ours on the same day of the month (e.g. second Monday), so if you have a calendar, you can see the dates yourself.

Your board gets away with this stuff because the HOMEOWNERS don't keep them in check. For now, they may think you're a crank they can ignore, but if you can rally together the neighbors (the ones who elect and re-ekect them, remember?), it becomes more difficult. You were asking about appointed board members in another conversation and if you think the appointed member has been on longer than what the documents specify, you need to talk about your neighbors about that too.

I pointed out the issue with apathy in HOAs and whether you want to face it or not, that's the underlying problem in a lot of communities. This is how you wind up with rouge boards and to get then to straighten up and fly right takes work. Yes, there will be drama - what makes you think these folks will simply say OK? If they were interested in doing the right thing, they'd be doing it already..

PS - Terri seems to think all boards are bad and homeowners always good, when in fact, no one is all one thing or another. Whatever, Terri - do you, but some of us eventually get tired of the BS and start doing the things that will bring about real and long lasting changes.

If it is not right do not do it; if it is not true do not say it. Marcus Aurelius

TerriS6 (California)
Posts: 3,284

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By SheliaH on 03/23/2024 9:06 AM

Posted By BradS10 on 03/23/2024 8:09 AM
The board usually doesn’t post meeting minutes on the website until a year later. They almost never notify home owners of board meetings. If it was available I would not ask. They think it’s ok because it’s the way they have always done it.

Well then, instead of focusing on the emails, why not go out and talk to your neighbors about untimely posting of meeting minutes or announcing the next meeting. In my community, we have ours on the same day of the month (e.g. second Monday), so if you have a calendar, you can see the dates yourself.

Your board gets away with this stuff because the HOMEOWNERS don't keep them in check. For now, they may think you're a crank they can ignore, but if you can rally together the neighbors (the ones who elect and re-ekect them, remember?), it becomes more difficult. You were asking about appointed board members in another conversation and if you think the appointed member has been on longer than what the documents specify, you need to talk about your neighbors about that too.

I pointed out the issue with apathy in HOAs and whether you want to face it or not, that's the underlying problem in a lot of communities. This is how you wind up with rouge boards and to get then to straighten up and fly right takes work. Yes, there will be drama - what makes you think these folks will simply say OK? If they were interested in doing the right thing, they'd be doing it already..

PS - Terri seems to think all boards are bad and homeowners always good, when in fact, no one is all one thing or another. Whatever, Terri - do you, but some of us eventually get tired of the BS and start doing the things that will bring about real and long lasting changes.

You and some others here, Shelia, seem to think all homeowners are bad and board members all good. Refusing to do a board's job is a good indicator that it's a bad board. And I'm pretty sick of some of the regular commenters here accusing people asking for help of being the problem...or having bad motives. I'm tired of your BS and I have done more to bring about good changes to our community than the power hungry, corrupt board of mine. It's pretty clear in this forum who is pro-board (pro-HOA atty) and who is pro-homeowner/consumer (in need of protection.)

SheliaH (Indiana)
Posts: 6,964

Posted:

As, I said before - whatever and you are welcome to think and do as you like - just as I will continue to say what I say. Just because I ask a few questions doesn't necessarily mean I'm for one side or another, and I know I've had my share of responses where I called out a board for bad behavior.

This isn't an amen corner and if Brad or anyone else disagree with me on anything, that's fine. I don't live in that community, so it won't matter to me what happens next. However, I'm not in the habit of automatically assume anything just because someone said it. If you wantvto provide useful information, it helps to adk more questions and offering options that may fix the problem faster and more effectively.

I may be the only one, but it seems to me if you're going on about emails copied to your wife because you asked for the next meeting date - while the 2023 board meeting minutes have yet to be posted - I say someone might be majoring in the minors.

And yes, that includes the board- just give the man the meeting date and move on. Or post the minutes on tge website as soon as they're approved at the next meeting. If the email address isn't the issue, as Melissa suggested, it may be they think wifey will make hubby behave instead of just giving the man the meeting date. Either way, it's silly and takes away from what may be the real problem- lack of transparency.

If it is not right do not do it; if it is not true do not say it. Marcus Aurelius

BradS10
Posts: 34

Posted:

I agree that it is minor. The board has done some crazy shit including several fair housing violations including disclosing my disability so I will hold them accountable to the law. Neighbors are scared of retaliation from the bored president and don’t want to do anything.

KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550

Posted:

Does your wife dislike getting these auto-reply emails, Brad? Does it bother her? I'm wondering why it bothers you?

I don't recall, Brad: does your HOA have a property manager? How many homes are there?

With Sheila, Terri, I completely agree this forum is not some sort of "Amen Corner" lauding all HOA boards. Some of us have repeatedly given advice, for example, about how to get rid of bad boards-- based on experience.

BradS10
Posts: 34

Posted:

80 units. All SFH. No property manager. My wife doesn’t car. She thinks it’s them being petty.

BradS10
Posts: 34

Posted:

I know how to get rid of the board. I should be on the board but the board added someone right before the election not following are articles of incorporation. Neighbors are afraid to vote against the president due to retaliation. He frequently used the HOA lawyer to intimidate neighbors into thinking they are breaking the rules when no rules exist for that item. People have had to remove 10s of thousands of lighting or outdoor fixtures due to him bullying them into with the attorney which he also has a business relationship with. Most homeowners do no know their rights. I have been trying to help homeowners and have prevented a few other items that could have cost home owners 10s of thousands of dollars.

SheliaH (Indiana)
Posts: 6,964

Posted:

You know how to sack the board - that's great, but as you've seen, this is something you can't do by yourself. If the president is the problem, that's the one you should target for a recall. Since it appears the rest of the board (appointed or not) can't or refuse to stand up to him either, you and your neighbors should consider getting rid of all of them.

In another conversation (may have been yours), I said it's impossible for one, two or however many board members to run everything however they want unless the homeowners allow it, and you're correct that it may be people are afraid because they don't want a nastygram from the association attorney or remember what happened when the Simpsons tried to stand up.

However, that doesn't make the problem go away and will get worse unless and until everyone says enough. Unfortunately, I suspect there are homeowners who don't care about any of this - they pay assessments and go about their business, thinking it doesn't affect them until it does.

So you may have to start with an education campaign. When a homeowner clashes with the president, review the documents with them so they can see for themselves what's correct. They will have to decide how far they're willing to go and understand that power concedes nothing without demand (Frederick Douglass). You have to get together, discuss your strategy, read your documents to see what you need to do to get a special meeting called so you can vote to recall this guy and perhaps the others.

If you succeed, you need to have someone or several people ready to step up and serve - yes, you may need to be one of them. Not everyone will be convinced this is a problem, so focus on getting the number you need for a special meeting and a quorum to get a vote. Some of the folks who post regularly can tell you stories of how this went down in their communities- read some old conversations on this website and take notes. Bring your questions to this conversation so you can get updated suggestions.

I also read the following earlier today- a leader that has power without responsibility will soon lose it. It's up to the homeowners to make that happen sooner rather than later. You may need to pass the hat to get an attorney to guide you and possibly take legal action on your behalf. This is how it is when you speak truth to power, so buckle up and assume this will be a fight. Good luck to you.

If it is not right do not do it; if it is not true do not say it. Marcus Aurelius

MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836

Posted:

First how often are board meetings to be in your HOA? If you want to know how often meetings happen are in your documents. Read them. They are free or small copy charge from the county or state.

If your HOA meets once a year, then next year would be when meeting notes are available. The notes are approved by next meeting before release.

Is this a combo how you think things are to work and the way they do? Read your documents and answers will appear.

Former HOA President

TerriS6 (California)
Posts: 3,284

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By MelissaP1 on 03/23/2024 3:24 PM
First how often are board meetings to be in your HOA? If you want to know how often meetings happen are in your documents. Read them. They are free or small copy charge from the county or state.

If your HOA meets once a year, then next year would be when meeting notes are available. The notes are approved by next meeting before release.

Is this a combo how you think things are to work and the way they do? Read your documents and answers will appear.

Non compos mentis.

BradS10
Posts: 34

Posted:

As part of washington state law meeting notes for the membership meeting must be provided within 60 days http://app.leg.wa.gov/RCW/default.aspx?cite=64.38.035 . The attorney of our HOA believes this also applies to board meeting minutes. The minutes do not have to be approved when they are posted or sent to members and can indicate they are not approved.

BradS10
Posts: 34

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By MelissaP1 on 03/23/2024 3:24 PM
First how often are board meetings to be in your HOA? If you want to know how often meetings happen are in your documents. Read them. They are free or small copy charge from the county or state.

If your HOA meets once a year, then next year would be when meeting notes are available. The notes are approved by next meeting before release.

Is this a combo how you think things are to work and the way they do? Read your documents and answers will appear.

I have read all my governing docs in detail and all applicable state laws. The governing docs i have read include the articles of incorporation, CCRs, and bylaws. This includes any amendments which are not posted on the website and only filed with the state. I have also read the ACC rules and regular rules/regulations The governing documents do not specify how often the board meetings happen.

MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836

Posted:

Ours did state in the articles when we met for meetings. It was always the 2nd Thursday of every month at 7 pm.

Makes me wonder if you are still developer owned or no one ever updated the documents.

Former HOA President

KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550

Posted:

Do you have further questions for the Forum today, Brad?

BradS10
Posts: 34

Posted:

We are not a developer owned property. The CCRs have were created in the early 90s. No amendments since they require 100% of the community. The bylaws were last updated in 2017.

The CCRs do have language specifying when the annual homeowners meeting but nothing about the date/timeof board meetings or their required frequency

BradS10
Posts: 34

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By KerryL1 on 03/23/2024 5:25 PM
Do you have further questions for the Forum today, Brad?

I have one in my a post from a few days ago about director vacancies if you want to try to answer my last comment.

BradS10
Posts: 34

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By KerryL1 on 03/23/2024 5:25 PM
Do you have further questions for the Forum today, Brad?

I have one in my a post from a few days ago about director vacancies if you want to try to answer my last comment.

MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836

Posted:

Sounds like the answer is one yearly meeting. That is what you have. They may have board meetings but not open ones. It is just the board. That means they set their meetings frequency and not necessarily the notes. The members get the notes from the yearly meeting.

Former HOA President

CathyA3 (Ohio)
Posts: 6,299

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By TerriS6 on 03/23/2024 3:28 PM

Posted By MelissaP1 on 03/23/2024 3:24 PM
First how often are board meetings to be in your HOA? If you want to know how often meetings happen are in your documents. Read them. They are free or small copy charge from the county or state.

If your HOA meets once a year, then next year would be when meeting notes are available. The notes are approved by next meeting before release.

Is this a combo how you think things are to work and the way they do? Read your documents and answers will appear.

Non compos mentis.

Meeting frequencies are indeed spelled out in my bylaws. Approved minutes can't be available until after the next meeting of that particular body which is when the approval happens. Boards can make *unapproved* minutes available, and often do, but readers should be aware that unapproved minutes are not official association records - they're FYI and people shouldn't make decisions based on them without verifying the information first.

MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836

Posted:

I think this is a case of how someone wants the HOA to run but the rules do not accommodate that.

It sounds like the HOA rules state one annual meeting. Yes I think should be more of them and open. However, the rules do not state that. So if this person was elected how could they do anything different if they have to go by the rules?

The other board members seem to get it. Until someone steps up and changes the rules which is 100% an option, the annual meeting stays.

My question is what is holding the OP back from making those changes? It does not take a board vote. It takes a member vote. If you want the place to run or have the rules you want, then put in the work not the whine.

It should be noted that a few of us here did that work. We made the changes and filed. It took nearly 2 years and $2.5K
Now the question is who is the "They" the OP wants to have do it? This is how one gets elected to their board.

Former HOA President

TerriS6 (California)
Posts: 3,284

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By CathyA3 on 03/24/2024 4:57 AM

Posted By TerriS6 on 03/23/2024 3:28 PM

Posted By MelissaP1 on 03/23/2024 3:24 PM
First how often are board meetings to be in your HOA? If you want to know how often meetings happen are in your documents. Read them. They are free or small copy charge from the county or state.

If your HOA meets once a year, then next year would be when meeting notes are available. The notes are approved by next meeting before release.

Is this a combo how you think things are to work and the way they do? Read your documents and answers will appear.

Non compos mentis.

Meeting frequencies are indeed spelled out in my bylaws. Approved minutes can't be available until after the next meeting of that particular body which is when the approval happens. Boards can make *unapproved* minutes available, and often do, but readers should be aware that unapproved minutes are not official association records - they're FYI and people shouldn't make decisions based on them without verifying the information first.

In California, minutes are required to be available to members 30 days after a meeting, even if they are draft minutes.

MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836

Posted:

How is that Terri if meeting is once a year and takes the next meeting to be approved? There is no meeting 30 days later to approve the minutes.

Logic get some...

Former HOA President

TerriS6 (California)
Posts: 3,284

Posted:

California CIVIL CODE SECTION 4950. MINUTES OF MEETINGS.
(a) The minutes, minutes proposed for adoption that are marked to indicate draft status, or a summary of the minutes, of any board meeting, other than an executive session, shall be available to members within 30 days of the meeting. The minutes, proposed minutes, or summary minutes shall be distributed to any member upon request and upon reimbursement of the association’s costs for making that distribution.

(b) The annual policy statement, prepared pursuant to Section 5310, shall inform the members of their right to obtain copies of board meeting minutes and of how and where to do so.

MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836

Posted:

And the OP does not live in California...

Former HOA President

KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550

Posted:

I believe that Brad has posted that minutes or draft minutes of Board meetings are available to owners 60 days after the board meeting.

I must correct Melissa, not necessarily for Brad, but for others new to HOAs who might believe her incorrect statements.

Melissa: Brad cites his WA corporation codes, which means his HOA, like almost all, is a corporation. Corporations must have boards of directors. Boards of directors are required to hold --guess what?--meetings. How often usually is in an HOA's bylaws, but if not, the corporation codes will state how often--perhaps just once a year.

Melissa: WA requires HOA board meetings to be open to owners.

Melissa: It is "Association meetings," AKA Meetings of the Members (Owners) that must be held once a year and are for the election of directors. ("Special meetings of the members" may be held when correctly called.)

Melissa: It is NOT "rules" that dictate anything about Boards' composition, their meetings, who may attend, etc. it is bylaws, which often are informed by state corp. codes. "Rules & Regs" dictate owner behaviors, what they can do to their homes' exteriors, dog rules, pool rules, etc. Please stop calling covenants, bylaws and/or state statutes "rules."

MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836

Posted:

AND his by laws state one meeting a year...

Former HOA President

BradS10
Posts: 34

Posted:

Washington state law require member meeting notes be made available in 60 days. They do not have to be approved. They can be in a draft state. It is very clearly spelled out in the law. The board almost never provided them in that time period. I usually wait until 120 days or more before asking.

ElleN (Idaho)
Posts: 4,420

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By KerryL1 on 03/24/2024 10:48 AM
Melissa: Brad cites his WA corporation codes, which means his HOA, like almost all, is a corporation. Corporations must have boards of directors. Boards of directors are required to hold --guess what?--meetings.

Nope.

Quote:

Posted By KerryL1 on 03/24/2024 10:48 AM
How often [board meetings must be held] usually is in an HOA's bylaws, but if not, the corporation codes will state how often--perhaps just once a year.

Nope.

If BradS10 requests elaboration, then I will respond further.

Otherwise KerryL1 needs to do her homework and not post stuff she knows may be iffy.

LetA (Nevada)
Posts: 2,679

Posted:

Two questions for you. Are you and your wife on the mortgage together or does your name appear only on the deed?
Why don't you have both you and your wife's email on their list or just yours?

The firs question could be why the board emails you wife not you.

BradS10
Posts: 34

Posted:

Both of us are on the deed. They have had both of our emails addresses since we moved in several years ago and this just started recently.

KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550

Posted:

Oh...I shouldn't have counted on my memory of a previous very frequent poster from WA (Michael of Ark.), So, far as I can see, there's no state statutes that say how often an HOA or a nonprofit board must meet.

RCW 24.03A.585(2) does state: "Unless the articles or bylaws provide otherwise, the board shall elect or appoint all officers annually..." So that does imply one board meeting a year.

I think Brad has indicated that the Board does meet, e.g., they (improperly) met to improperly choose someone to fill a vacancy in 11/23. Board meetings must be open to owners and must include an open forum. Boards may only enter executive session FROM a board meeting and must state why they are convening to ex. sess. They must then reconvene in the open meeting and vote on the ex. sess. matter. RCW 64.38.035(4). So..... HOA boards would need to meet in an open meeting when they must conduct business in executive session.

I also do not see that the Assoc. in WA must supply draft or approved board meeting minutes to owners within any certain time frame.

BradS10
Posts: 34

Posted:

I agree that board minutes may not need to be provided within a specific time. Our HOA lawyer believes they should be within 60 days so im sticking with that. Non profit corps require action by unanimous consent without a meeting to be delivered to membership with 60 days. In this scenario it was not done during a meeting. It was done outside of a meeting. Members were not notified and it was not included in a future meeting notice which there have been 3 of since.

The board does meet quarterly but its never the same time or place so its impossible to know when they will meet. The last time it was via zoom so they could have easily invited homeowners but chose not to.

KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550

Posted:

Statutes state the Board must provide notice of Board meetings. So the Board acted illegally by not providing notice of the Zoom meeting. Or of any meeting they had to fill the Board vacancy. AND by not providing minutes.

But what will you do about it?

Why does the Board meet quarterly: Is it required by your Bylaws or Articles? ?

ElleN (Idaho)
Posts: 4,420

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By KerryL1 on 03/24/2024 6:23 PM

RCW 24.03A.585(2) does state: "Unless the articles or bylaws provide otherwise, the board shall elect or appoint all officers annually..." So that does imply one board meeting a year.

Email. AWOM. Phone tag. Etc.

BradS10
Posts: 34

Posted:

The bylaws only require the board to meet once as soon as possible after the annual homeowners meeting to elect officers. So effectively once a year. For the last 7 years they have met quarterly from the meeting notes i have.

KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550

Posted:

Elle wrote: "Email. AWOM. Phone tag. Etc." Email, which IS action without a meeting, is a meeting & decision of the Board and must be recorded in meeting minutes just like an in-person board meeting or a Zoom meeting.

Anyway, Brad wrote above that the board has had some board meetings.

ElleN (Idaho)
Posts: 4,420

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By KerryL1 on 03/24/2024 7:00 PM
Elle wrote: "Email. AWOM. Phone tag. Etc." Email, which IS action without a meeting, is a meeting & decision of the Board and must be recorded in meeting minutes

Nationwide corporate codes do not consistently have such a provision.

Fact: Corporate codes permit boards not to meet and to take actions without "meeting minutes."

Quit making stuff up.

ElleN (Idaho)
Posts: 4,420

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By ElleN on 03/24/2024 7:07 PM
Fact: Corporate codes permit boards not to meet and to take actions without "meeting minutes."

Correction: At least some (many?) corporate codes do not require boards to have meetings.

And quit making things up, Kerry.

MarshallT (New York)
Posts: 414

Posted:

That is odd. The first thing I would do is request that they only use your address for responses (maybe both of your email addresses are in your property profile?). I don't think you could force them to stop though because they're not committing any violations.

SheliaH (Indiana)
Posts: 6,964

Posted:

Another old post - and Brad has apparently left the forum, so that's that, I guess.

If it is not right do not do it; if it is not true do not say it. Marcus Aurelius