FLORIDA HOA folks

My community has about 30 clubs. a group of people get together and they have a club. That property manager from Castle is insisting that all clubs must file with Sunbiz. That means they have to incorporate with the state of Florida. There is nothing in the statute that I can find. The property manager claims that it protects the officers from being sued. There is nothing in the statue that I can find, nor in our docs am I missing something??

Thank you, as usual

Officers are generally indemnified by your governing docs and are protected by Directors & Officers insurance (assuming your community has it). That doesn't necessarily mean that club volunteers are protected - you need to look at your bylaws to see if they are appointed to an official position.

But anybody can sue anybody else for any reason. Doesn't mean they'll win in court. But I know of nothing that will actually prevent someone from suing if they want to (lack of money, maybe, if they can't get a lawyer to take their case on contingency). But the right to address grievances through the court system is guaranteed by the First Amendment.

There are a couple of "clubs" in my HOA too: a Book Club and a MahJong Club. They are open to all residents. They advertise on the community bulletin board in the 2 mailrooms . And also in the HOA's monthly Newsletter even though they are not chartered or sanctioned by the HOA via the Board.

The each pay a refundable security deposit and a nonrefundable rent fee to reserve our "Party Room" once a month.

So....I'm thinking..... why does the HOA's Board care if a group of residents call themselves a club? And why should they care if the group includes those who live outside the HOA?*

The way I see it, the only concern of the HOA is use of the common areas for club "meetings." And, I assume the HOA has written board-approved procedures about renting these rooms, e.g., forms, reservations, hours open for use, refundable and non-refundable fees to use these area, etc.

So long as the common areas are used for lawful purposes, why is the HOA or the PM concerned at all about clubs? Is there contention over how often a "club" may reserve a common area?

* Our CC&Rs say the common area recreational areas are for residents and their guests, invitees, etc. . There is no CC&R or Rule that states that any recreational area is for residents only.

Off the top of my head: insurance/liability and ADA compliance.

I would bet money that the "Definitions" section of the Declaration has the definition of "Club Owner."

Based on reading Florida Declarations with similar or the exact same wording as section 4.2: I expect the Club Owner is not the homeowners' association. I expect the HOA does not even own the real estate on which the clubhouse sits. The latter is a big deal. Instead the Club Owner is some independent entity looking to make a lot of money, and per the covenants having a lot of legal leeway to profit mightily from the HOA members or anyone else it wishes.

Developers come up with these plans marketing how attractive the grounds are, with "its" own clubhouse and restaurant. Naturally, the developers fail to emphasize that the covenants mandate owners to pay for something they ultimately end up not wanting, after the owners 'get educated' the hard way, paying through the nose for the larger "club."

This "property manager" may merely be the mouthpiece for the Club Owner, said Club Owner being a wholly independent legal entity from the HOA.

This has nothing to do with the physical property of our facility. it deals with the social clubs that make up a large part of the activities here. There is the opera club. There is the Italian American club. There is the book club. These are simply groups of people getting together to do something. These groups are not legal entities, nor do they need to be legal entities. I think the property manager is scaring people by telling them that the officers could be sued. Well that’s ridiculous because who are the officers. I think I’m going to go to the property management company. I think this man is out of control .

Thanks ElleN for reminding us that this is a more complicated situation than just a regular HOA. It is very common to have a club, especially a golf course club, that is in the community but not owned by the HOA. Now I can see where this might be a situation where the club owner wants to make sure they are only allowing certain parties to use the clubhouse.

Are you saying, Carole, that none of these clubs use HOA common areas for events or to hold meetings?

Do any of them use the "Club Owners" facility?

This has nothing to do with the facilities available to homeowners. my question to other Florida folks is when social groups are formed like the Brooklyn club or the Italian American club or the residence club do they have to incorporate and then file annual reports with sunbiz it makes no sense