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PatJ1 (North Carolina)
Posts: 568
Posted:
Back in Oct. the previous board hired a company to chop all our original shrubs to the ground. They removed many massive shrubs, some with 6-8” trunks. We now have buildings without any greenery anywhere. They left the stumps and the undergrowth brush and garbage. No plan was in place to do anything beyond chopping down the shrubs. They stated that when the shrubs grew back it would look better and be easier to maintain.

Some owners purchased mulch and pine needles to cover the mess left. Most haven’t done anything. Weeds are now starting to grow in the areas where the shrubs were.

Then 2 weeks ago a new Board sent an email to the owners of our 45 year old condo community advising that they were doing a major overhaul of the community landscaping over the next 2 years to make the community uniform. They advised owners that all remaining plantings and items on community property would be removed. Owners would be given 30 days notice to remove what they wanted to keep. Anything left would be removed by the landscapers.

I just received a violation letter from the new board to remove a pathway and the mulch in the area that covers the muddy ground after they chopped down the shrubs. A short steppingstone pathway was added 20 years ago. Ignored by all previous boards. The pathway has been maintained and improved by me all those years. The violation is for unapproved landscaping enhancements.

Here’s my question -

Wouldn’t something that has been in place for that many years become community property and the HOA should remove the pathway if it doesn’t like it there? Aren’t they contradicting what they sent in the email?

How would you recommend I respond to the violation letter?

The community is in an uproar over the new Boards actions. And it’s not just the landscaping. We haven’t had an elected board for over 25 years. I served for 9 years. I have no sympathy for the apathetic owners. Our Annual Meeting is Monday. We’ll probably get a better turn out than usual, but no where near a quorum. I’m taking popcorn with me and readying my unit for sale.
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059
Posted:
Did you seek and gain approval for the stepping stones located on common area?

The board makes the decisions for the common areas.

Per your posting, the board told everyone to remove what they wanted to keep.

You are now being told to remove the stepping stones (could be viewed as a second request).

My suggestion - remove the stepping stones for now.
At the meeting (respond in person) explain that you have removed the stones but are concerned about safety because they addressed safely crossing a muddy area and you would like to know how the Association will be addressing that.

You can always request approval and put them back after the landscapers finish the overhaul.

PatJ1 (North Carolina)
Posts: 568
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By TimB4 on 03/02/2024 3:31 AM
Did you seek and gain approval for the stepping stones located on common area?

The board makes the decisions for the common areas.

Per your posting, the board told everyone to remove what they wanted to keep.

You are now being told to remove the stepping stones (could be viewed as a second request).

My suggestion - remove the stepping stones for now.
At the meeting (respond in person) explain that you have removed the stones but are concerned about safety because they addressed safely crossing a muddy area and you would like to know how the Association will be addressing that.

You can always request approval and put them back after the landscapers finish the overhaul.


The email outlining the overhaul with 30 days notice preceded the violation letters. The overhaul will take place over 2 years. It was said that it will be while before they get down to me. The pathway has been there for 20 years. I have no way of storing the pavers without being sited for improper storage. I can not physically remove the pavers and mulch and will have to hire someone to do the work. I will comply with the violation letter and live with the mess that will result. The whole community will then be in a uniform mess.

There is no way to communicate with the new board. "Out with the old and in with the new". They, actually, she, dismisses all communication and they have mailed dozens and dozens of violation letters. They have nullified all previous board approvals.

Owners have been told that they are adding a hot tub and tennis courts and are raising the dues to cover the cost. Our CCR's limit the amount the dues can be raised. We are in great need of drainage correction, structural repairs, parking lot maintenance and the re-siding for 20 buildings should be started in the next couple of years. They, she, view the Reserve Study as inaccurate and feel that $300,000 in the Reserve account is sufficient to cover $1-3 Million in needed near future maintenance.

The Board is appointed. One way to make a change is to place pressure on the 3 other members to vote her, the President, off. I've heard that the other Board members don't agree with her, but won't vote against her.

When no one steps forward to volunteer the community is stuck with what they get. I'll update after the meeting on Monday. I expect a mob of angry owners. She has lived here a year and been on the Board for one month. She is the most hated person in the community right now.
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059
Posted:
Pat,

Did you have Association approval when you installed the pavers?
ElleN (Idaho)
Posts: 4,420
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By PatJ1 on 03/01/2024 9:24 PM

Then 2 weeks ago a new Board sent an email to the owners of our 45 year old condo community advising that they were doing a major overhaul of the community landscaping over the next 2 years to make the community uniform. They advised owners that all remaining plantings and items on community property would be removed. Owners would be given 30 days notice to remove what they wanted to keep. Anything left would be removed by the landscapers.

I just received a violation letter from the new board to remove a pathway and the mulch in the area that covers the muddy ground after they chopped down the shrubs. A short steppingstone pathway was added 20 years ago. Ignored by all previous boards. The pathway has been maintained and improved by me all those years. The violation is for unapproved landscaping enhancements.

Here’s my question -

Wouldn’t something that has been in place for that many years become community property and the HOA should remove the pathway if it doesn’t like it there? Aren’t they contradicting what they sent in the email?

How would you recommend I respond to the violation letter?
Dear Board,

Your February email states that owners will be given 30 days notice to remove items on community property. After 30 days the HOA's landscapers will remove any items still remaining. Your violation notice dated directs me to remove a pathway (consisting of large paver stones).

Is the violation notice my 30 day notice? If I take no action will I be fined?

Sincerely,


By my reading of law on abandonment, your property, left on the common area, does not automatically become the HOA's property. The HOA might have the rights to claim it as their property, but clearly this HOA does not want to exercise these rights. Nor do I think an owner has the right to say, "Yes, I left xyz on common area. This xyz has been there for 20 years. I do not want it. Now it is yours."

I also think the HOA has the right to bill you for the removal of the pavers (again, sitting on common area).

ElleN (Idaho)
Posts: 4,420
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By PatJ1 on 03/02/2024 4:22 AM
Owners have been told that they are adding a hot tub and tennis courts and are raising the dues to cover the cost.
I would be incensed at this blatant violation of the covenants. A Board cannot lawfully add significant amenities without, at a minimum, an owner's vote.

If the tennis courts would result in replacing permeable surface, also consider contacting the city and asking if the land use department has to approve this change. I am betting the city would not approve this without also asking additional drainage infrastructure. Or the city might flatly deny the tennis courts.

Rally your neighbors and get them to attend the board meetings. If you want a draft demand-letter-lite to send to the board concerning the tennis courts and hot tub, please indicate your state.
MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836
Posted:
A few things... I am sorry you're not going to hear what you want to hear. We do have empathy here but also the "other side" view. My former HOA had an issue with bushes. They were on the outside of our fence line between us and the road. The builder must have installed them but after 25 years they grew to a size that was unmanageable. They looked bad and attracted insects and wildlife. The bees could be the worst. Especially if a person was stung. Who do you think members would come after if someone allergic was stung? The bushes were on common area. Thus the HOA responsibility. The board after I left had the bushes removed. It did not look that good when driving by as it left some scarring on the lawn. The reality is those bushes were causing a danger and no longer "beauty". Like it or not these decisions have to be made.

You put the pavers on common area. Yes, it may have been helpful in addressing the flooding issues caused by the bush removal. However, that was NOT your decision nor your expense to have put them there. If it is HOA common property, then the HOA is responsible. The process should have been to request the HOA install pavers to assist with the flooding or another alternative. You may not know if the new plan in place will provide a fix for the issue or improve it.

A HOA is ONLY funded by the owners for the owners. If a majority of members want a hot tub or tennis courts, then you ALL pay for it. Something I still can't get through some of my fellow HOA members. They want a clubhouse and a pool. When I told them the bill would be over $300K they scoffed at me and said I had no clue on how much things costs. It didn't help I told them that we would probably have to pay over a 1 -2 grand a house to build. Plus another $200 a month in dues to maintain the clubhouse and pool. Mind you we can install a pool if we wanted. PLUS our houses are big enough for multiple guests. There would be little to no need for a clubhouse. Similar to little need for a shared hot tub or tennis court in your HOA. You need to get fellow members to attend a meeting and vote it down if they do not want it. If they do, then you are ALL paying the costs.

Former HOA President
TerriS6 (California)
Posts: 3,284
Posted:
If you received the violation, the stepping stones must be on private property. If they were installed 20 years ago, it's likely past the statute of limitations to make you change it. What state are you in?
TerriS6 (California)
Posts: 3,284
Posted:
If your HOA is a corporation, the current board likely has no power at all if there were no elections for many years. Check your state's corporations code. Also, if a corporation, have all the reporting requirements of the state been met? If not, your corporation status may be suspended. Your Declaration should state what is required to add capital improvements. You may have to get an injunction.
PatJ1 (North Carolina)
Posts: 568
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By TimB4 on 03/02/2024 5:32 AM
Pat,

Did you have Association approval when you installed the pavers?

They have nullified any previous board approvals. They stated that anything not removed, the landscaper's will remove in the email received prior to the violation letter.

I'll have them and the mulch removed. Just trying to wrap my head around this mess to offer suggestions to the other owner's who are up in arms and are asking me questions.
PatJ1 (North Carolina)
Posts: 568
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By TerriS6 on 03/02/2024 8:06 AM
If you received the violation, the stepping stones must be on private property. If they were installed 20 years ago, it's likely past the statute of limitations to make you change it. What state are you in?

North Carolina.
TerriS6 (California)
Posts: 3,284
Posted:
It seems the main issue is having an unelected board who has no authority to order all these things. Maybe worthwhile to get some neighbors together, hire an attorney, and force them to hold an election.
PatJ1 (North Carolina)
Posts: 568
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By ElleN on 03/02/2024 6:23 AM
Posted By PatJ1 on 03/01/2024 9:24 PM

Then 2 weeks ago a new Board sent an email to the owners of our 45 year old condo community advising that they were doing a major overhaul of the community landscaping over the next 2 years to make the community uniform. They advised owners that all remaining plantings and items on community property would be removed. Owners would be given 30 days notice to remove what they wanted to keep. Anything left would be removed by the landscapers.

I just received a violation letter from the new board to remove a pathway and the mulch in the area that covers the muddy ground after they chopped down the shrubs. A short steppingstone pathway was added 20 years ago. Ignored by all previous boards. The pathway has been maintained and improved by me all those years. The violation is for unapproved landscaping enhancements.

Here’s my question -

Wouldn’t something that has been in place for that many years become community property and the HOA should remove the pathway if it doesn’t like it there? Aren’t they contradicting what they sent in the email?

How would you recommend I respond to the violation letter?
Dear Board,

Your February email states that owners will be given 30 days notice to remove items on community property. After 30 days the HOA's landscapers will remove any items still remaining. Your violation notice dated directs me to remove a pathway (consisting of large paver stones).

Is the violation notice my 30 day notice? If I take no action will I be fined?

Sincerely,


By my reading of law on abandonment, your property, left on the common area, does not automatically become the HOA's property. The HOA might have the rights to claim it as their property, but clearly this HOA does not want to exercise these rights. Nor do I think an owner has the right to say, "Yes, I left xyz on common area. This xyz has been there for 20 years. I do not want it. Now it is yours."

I also think the HOA has the right to bill you for the removal of the pavers (again, sitting on common area).


Thank you. I'm going to use this. Many other owners have been verbally told by a board member, and, yes I already know that 1 board can't speak for the board, that if they don't remove the issue, the HOA will. So the owners are hearing "but so and so said" from other owners and saying it's OK to ignore the violation letters.
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By PatJ1 on 03/02/2024 9:10 AM
Posted By TimB4 on 03/02/2024 5:32 AM
Pat,

Did you have Association approval when you installed the pavers?


They have nullified any previous board approvals.

That did not answer my question.

If you had approval, you worked with the Association in good faith and if they want the pavers removed, you should be compensated for the cost of the pavers, the installation and the removal of the pavers.
It will likely take a letter from an attorney to get this process going.

If you did not have approval, I would recommend you remove them.

PatJ1 (North Carolina)
Posts: 568
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By TimB4 on 03/02/2024 10:07 AM
Posted By PatJ1 on 03/02/2024 9:10 AM
Posted By TimB4 on 03/02/2024 5:32 AM
Pat,

Did you have Association approval when you installed the pavers?


They have nullified any previous board approvals.


That did not answer my question.

If you had approval, you worked with the Association in good faith and if they want the pavers removed, you should be compensated for the cost of the pavers, the installation and the removal of the pavers.
It will likely take a letter from an attorney to get this process going.

If you did not have approval, I would recommend you remove them.


It doesn't really matter at this point if I had approval or not. I'll spend $200 to correct the violation or much more to request mediation to seek compensation for the cost and removal.
DeanJ
Posts: 1,786
Posted:
Your HOA declaration probably prohibits anyone from placing anything in common areas. Your “rogue” board may be following the declaration and other boards didn’t.

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