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KevinO4 (Florida)
Posts: 4
Posted:
Hello.

If an approval for fencing was previously approved for property in error and that fence was installed, is a board mandated from enforcing fencing rewuirements of a similar nature for future requests by other property owners?
TerriS6 (California)
Posts: 3,284
Posted:
One consideration is for existing improvements I believe the statute of limitations to enforce restrictions is 5 years in FL. If so, they can't require alterations built 5 years ago or more. It could be argued both ways for new projects 1) board hasn't followed its own procedures so it can't enforce now, or 2) board can try to enforce and see what happens.
KevinO4 (Florida)
Posts: 4
Posted:
The issue I am asking about is if a fence material brdering a conservation area was approved in error, does that prevent the board from enforcing the correct guildine to future requests.
TerriS6 (California)
Posts: 3,284
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By KevinO4 on 02/21/2024 7:38 AM
The issue I am asking about is if a fence material brdering a conservation area was approved in error, does that prevent the board from enforcing the correct guildine to future requests.

It probably would not prevent the board from enforcing the correct guideline now but be ready for a possible challenge by applicant for lack of prior enforcement.
KevinO4 (Florida)
Posts: 4
Posted:
Thank you
ElleN (Idaho)
Posts: 4,420
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By KevinO4 on 02/21/2024 7:38 AM
The issue I am asking about is if a fence material brdering a conservation area was approved in error, does that prevent the board from enforcing the correct guildine to future requests.
No, it does not. In fact the board has a duty to enforce the covenants.

I do think the board should seriously consider paying the owner whose fence was approved in error for what he/she paid for the fence, and then the board should arrange for the fence to be taken down. Why? Because the covenants say the fence should not have been approved.

Otherwise, document the mistake and the board's position that it did not want to spend owners' money to correct the mistake but instead, in this unusual situation, granted a waiver (discretion being the better part of valor and so on).
TerriS6 (California)
Posts: 3,284
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By ElleN on 02/21/2024 7:53 AM
Posted By KevinO4 on 02/21/2024 7:38 AM
The issue I am asking about is if a fence material brdering a conservation area was approved in error, does that prevent the board from enforcing the correct guildine to future requests.
No, it does not. In fact the board has a duty to enforce the covenants.

I do think the board should seriously consider paying the owner whose fence was approved in error for what he/she paid for the fence, and then the board should arrange for the fence to be taken down. Why? Because the covenants say the fence should not have been approved.

Otherwise, document the mistake and the board's position that it did not want to spend owners' money to correct the mistake but instead, in this unusual situation, granted a waiver (discretion being the better part of valor and so on).

That's inviting a lawsuit if fence is older than 5 years.
ElleN (Idaho)
Posts: 4,420
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By TerriS6 on 02/21/2024 7:59 AM
Posted By ElleN on 02/21/2024 7:53 AM
Posted By KevinO4 on 02/21/2024 7:38 AM
The issue I am asking about is if a fence material brdering a conservation area was approved in error, does that prevent the board from enforcing the correct guildine to future requests.
No, it does not. In fact the board has a duty to enforce the covenants.

I do think the board should seriously consider paying the owner whose fence was approved in error for what he/she paid for the fence, and then the board should arrange for the fence to be taken down. Why? Because the covenants say the fence should not have been approved.

Otherwise, document the mistake and the board's position that it did not want to spend owners' money to correct the mistake but instead, in this unusual situation, granted a waiver (discretion being the better part of valor and so on).


That's inviting a lawsuit if fence is older than 5 years.
I agree Florida's five-year statute of limitations plays a significant role here.

If five years have passed, the amend my statement to say the board should offer to pay the owner for the cost of the fence for the fence to be taken down. If the owners refuse, oh well. In the alternative, include in the documentation that five years have passed, hence the board is granting a waiver.

Chatter on the Florida SOL:
https://www.news-journalonline.com/story/news/2014/05/30/statute-of-limitations-waiver-and-covenant-enforcement/30667932007/
KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550
Posted:
Depending on the wording in the covenants, IF the Board wants to enforce them in the future, the CC&Rs might use the word "variance"

Here's partial wording from my Calif. condo HOA's ( restated, 2022) covenants that might be helpful:

"9.20 VARIANCES. The Board may authorize variances from compliance with any of the architectural provisions of this Declaration.... [which] shall become effective upon recordation in the Office of the County Recorder. If such variances are granted, no violation of the covenants, conditions and restrictions contained in this Declaration shall be deemed to have occurred with respect to the matter for which the variance was granted. The granting of such a variance shall not operate to waive any of the terms and provisions of this Declaration for any purpose except as to the particular Unit and the particular provision hereof covered by the variance..."

Perhaps Fla. uses the word "waiver?"
LetA (Nevada)
Posts: 2,679
Posted:
FWIW the board does have the final sayso on all ARC approvals and denials, likey this was not done in error.
KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550
Posted:
I don't know if FL requires the board to have the final word. In CA, ARC-denied applicants can plead their case to the Board. But if the app is OK, ARC's can approve them. So, what about Fla?
LoriM15 (Florida)
Posts: 1,009
Posted:
As far as I know, there is nothing in the statute regarding who has the final say on ARC approvals. And it varies a lot in the declaration. In ours, the ARC is really the ARB and is set out as a separate board. However, the board does still have power to overrule the ARB. In other documents I have seen the board IS the ARC. So there really isn't a standard for how this work.

The short answer to the original questions is that the board can and should still enforce the original design guidelines even if there was one mistaken exception. Our documents specifically say that one decision does not set a precedent.

The five-year rule is important. However, if the person who was mistakenly approved for something comes back to the ARC for a replacement of the same item, they can be denied the second time around. Real life example - we have 20-foot lake maintenance easements on many of our lots. Nothing is supposed to be built in the lake maintenance easements per our documents and our permit with the local water authority. The developer let owners (and sometimes built for them) fences and screen enclosures in the easement. If an owner wants to replace their fence with a new one and it's built in the easement, the ARC will deny. We have a realtor who is trying to sell a home that has illegal fences on either side. He wants to give the new owner permission to build a fence across the easement to connect with the other fences. We cannot allow this because even though the other fences are illegal, they've been there over five years, but his connecting fence is new and can't be approved.

JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265
Posted:
Kevin

What is wrong with the fence?
KevinO4 (Florida)
Posts: 4
Posted:
The fence should have been metal spoke fence as it is on a property that borders a conservation area. They requested a vinyl privacy fence with vinyl slotted on the rear side. They installed privacy all around. Now, another owner who’s property borders a conservation are wants to install privacy all around as well, claiming one owner was already granted an approval, which was not the full story.
DeanJ
Posts: 1,786
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By KevinO4 on 02/21/2024 7:17 AM
Hello.

If an approval for fencing was previously approved for property in error and that fence was installed, is a board mandated from enforcing fencing rewuirements of a similar nature for future requests by other property owners?

The current fence owner should be notified in writing the approved the fence was approved in error and approval of the fence does not extend beyond the functional life of the current fence. The owner is prohibited from replacing the current fence.

The Board is not required to allow other fences to be installed.
TerriS6 (California)
Posts: 3,284
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By DeanJ on 02/21/2024 3:46 PM
Posted By KevinO4 on 02/21/2024 7:17 AM
Hello.

If an approval for fencing was previously approved for property in error and that fence was installed, is a board mandated from enforcing fencing rewuirements of a similar nature for future requests by other property owners?


The current fence owner should be notified in writing the approved the fence was approved in error and approval of the fence does not extend beyond the functional life of the current fence. The owner is prohibited from replacing the current fence.

The Board is not required to allow other fences to be installed.

If those terms/conditions were part of the original permission to build fence.
ElleN (Idaho)
Posts: 4,420
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By TerriS6 on 02/21/2024 3:53 PM
Posted By DeanJ on 02/21/2024 3:46 PM
Posted By KevinO4 on 02/21/2024 7:17 AM
Hello.

If an approval for fencing was previously approved for property in error and that fence was installed, is a board mandated from enforcing fencing rewuirements of a similar nature for future requests by other property owners?


The current fence owner should be notified in writing the approved the fence was approved in error and approval of the fence does not extend beyond the functional life of the current fence. The owner is prohibited from replacing the current fence.

The Board is not required to allow other fences to be installed.


If those terms/conditions were part of the original permission to build fence.
If a new fence was needed, and push came to shove, then I like the HOA's chances in court better than the owner's.

I agree with DeanJ about notifying the owner now of the error and that the approval ends as soon as the life of the fence ends.
TerriS6 (California)
Posts: 3,284
Posted:
Over 5 years and that fence is off limits. Any kind of enforcement on the fence including a warning letter could be considered harassment.
RileyS (California)
Posts: 55
Posted:
This is a quote from our CC&R's:

Each Owner may reconstruct in a timely manner any damaged or destroyed Improvement on the Lot of the Owner with the same materials and to the same specifications as the Improvement existed before it was damaged or destroyed without the approval of the ARC, so long as the Improvement when originally constructed was either exempted hereunder or approved by the ARC.

Did the OP check their CC&R's for a similar clause?

I would think once approved, even in error, it would be difficult to limit the repair or replacement of an improvement? Who determines 'functional life'?

People don't react well, especially when they didn't do anything wrong, to being forced into something against their will. 'You catch more flies with honey than vinegar' comes to mind
KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550
Posted:
To return to the OP's original question. No. With Elle, Lori & Dean, the Board is not required--indeed, should not-- approve any future application that doesn't meet the HOA's fence guidelines.

What to do about the existing fence that was erroneously approved is a different topic. I think, to protect the HOA from that lot having a non-compliant replacement fence installed, The Boad with advice for counsel might make a decision to have recorded on this lot's deed that any replacement fence on the xx boundary of the lot must comply with the HOA's xxx guidelines.

With Terri, I think the Board shouldn't try to require the fence owner to tear it down and replace it. He built it in good faith with the HOA's blessing. They might add a clue about replacement, also to be recorded--attoreny's wording would be wise.

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