neighbor harrassment

JackieB4 (California)
Posts: 398

Posted:

Hi Ellen, Tim, Dean, etc.. I said I would return once I heard back from PMC + BOD, with LEGAL response: "IN REGARDS TO THE RACIAL REPORTS THE HOMEOWNERS BROUGHT UP AT THE MEETING, ALL WE CAN DO IS KEEP A RECORD ANY REPORTS RECEIVED AND IF IT ESCALATES WE HAVE THE RECORD FOR THEIR CASE IF THE NEIGHBORS DECIDE TO TAKE LEGAL ACTION ON THE MATTER."
As an FYI, 2 days after this issue surfaced (1/26/2024), I asked our PMC + other 2 Directors for an emergency mtg with legal. One week later= no response? I emailed again! President said "No need, just ask what our obligations are?" A week later, yesterday, the PM "legal" response is as I stated. In my opinion, Davis Stirling takes a much stronger position. Comments?
As always, thanks.

KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550

Posted:

As a board member, Jackie, don't you have access to the true wording of the attorney v. the weird prose ("racial"?) of your PM?

TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059

Posted:

Jackie,

Thank you for the update.

For those who do not know the back story, see the following thread on this forum:

Subject: verbally abusive owner

JackieB4 (California)
Posts: 398

Posted:

Kerry, the legal wording arrived @ 4:59 pm yesterday FRiday. My request for ER mtg with legal was ignored/denied...and I quoted what PM said she was told by legal. Let's not go off the tracks here.

JackieB4 (California)
Posts: 398

Posted:

Tim, as always thanks. My DNA has techy troubles.

ElleN (Idaho)
Posts: 4,420

Posted:

I have no new insights. Same ol' same ol', namely: If I were on this board, then I would figure that a unanimous board or perhaps board majority is going to do as it pleases. Subsequently let the chips fall where they may.

Perhaps mostly on principle, I would want my vote on (executive session) record. I expect many board majorities would refuse to honor recording how I voted. Whence I would carefully document how I voted, in preparation for a HUD investigator possibly calling me for an interview. Not so much because I would fear that I would be held liable. But more because at some point, what I say in my HUD interview may become public record or get back to the complainants. I would want the complainants to know I have zero toleration for harassment that causes a hostile environment in violation of Fair Housing law, and I did what I believed was the best I could.

In my specific experience, for all the aggravation that the typical Fair Housing Act complainant (who gets to the investigation stage, months after submission of the complaint) suffers, they do not get much justice. Maybe it will help a little for the complainant to know some people on the board "got it" the instant the complainant said something to the HOA board and the HOA board saw the video.

C'est la vie.

For future reference by whomever:
https://www.davis-stirling.com/Main-Index/Harassment-of-Members

https://www.davis-stirling.com/HOME/H/HOA-Harassment-Defined

Thx for the update.

JackieB4 (California)
Posts: 398

Posted:

Ellen, Tim, etc. I'm unsure this journey is over...but here's more tread. The 3 complainants: #1 = ex-President of our BOD and lives next door to Evil Neighbor; #2 Most upset and lives directly behind Evil Neighbor(EN), whose fence has nearly fallen down, gets the racist/slang ugly comments, "can't let my dog use the yard", is a young attorney. #3, is least affected but a portion of her fence is involved, also a young attorney. All 3 asked for a cease and desist letter be sent. All 3 know that I asked for an Emergerncy mtg with BOD, PM, legal counsel...but didn't happen. Yes, I have copies of everything!! As a retired RN/NP I have concerns about the mental health vs dementia of Evil Neighbor. No, I am not Mother Theresa. Again, thanks.

DeanJ
Posts: 1,786

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By JackieB4 on 02/17/2024 5:32 PM
Hi Ellen, Tim, Dean, etc.. I said I would return once I heard back from PMC + BOD, with LEGAL response: "IN REGARDS TO THE RACIAL REPORTS THE HOMEOWNERS BROUGHT UP AT THE MEETING, ALL WE CAN DO IS KEEP A RECORD ANY REPORTS RECEIVED AND IF IT ESCALATES WE HAVE THE RECORD FOR THEIR CASE IF THE NEIGHBORS DECIDE TO TAKE LEGAL ACTION ON THE MATTER."
As an FYI, 2 days after this issue surfaced (1/26/2024), I asked our PMC + other 2 Directors for an emergency mtg with legal. One week later= no response? I emailed again! President said "No need, just ask what our obligations are?" A week later, yesterday, the PM "legal" response is as I stated. In my opinion, Davis Stirling takes a much stronger position. Comments?
As always, thanks.

If my memory serves me correctly, the issue starting all this is a fence in poor repair. Is the board going to address that issue?

ElleN (Idaho)
Posts: 4,420

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By JackieB4 on 02/17/2024 7:11 PM
Ellen, Tim, etc. I'm unsure this journey is over...

Me too. ;) Maybe it is. Maybe it is not. No idea.

Quote:

Posted By JackieB4 on 02/17/2024 7:11 PM
but here's more tread. The 3 complainants: #1 = ex-President of our BOD and lives next door to Evil Neighbor; #2 Most upset and lives directly behind Evil Neighbor(EN), whose fence has nearly fallen down, gets the racist/slang ugly comments, "can't let my dog use the yard", is a young attorney. #3, is least affected but a portion of her fence is involved, also a young attorney. All 3 asked for a cease and desist letter be sent. All 3 know that I asked for an Emergerncy mtg with BOD, PM, legal counsel...but didn't happen. Yes, I have copies of everything!!

I wonder whether the young attorneys are not specialized enough to know they have fair housing rights here. Or they know plenty, including knowing how this can explode and consume their lives. Hence they are being generous (for now?).

JackieB4 (California)
Posts: 398

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By DeanJ on 02/17/2024 7:12 PM

Posted By JackieB4 on 02/17/2024 5:32 PM
Hi Ellen, Tim, Dean, etc.. I said I would return once I heard back from PMC + BOD, with LEGAL response: "IN REGARDS TO THE RACIAL REPORTS THE HOMEOWNERS BROUGHT UP AT THE MEETING, ALL WE CAN DO IS KEEP A RECORD ANY REPORTS RECEIVED AND IF IT ESCALATES WE HAVE THE RECORD FOR THEIR CASE IF THE NEIGHBORS DECIDE TO TAKE LEGAL ACTION ON THE MATTER."
As an FYI, 2 days after this issue surfaced (1/26/2024), I asked our PMC + other 2 Directors for an emergency mtg with legal. One week later= no response? I emailed again! President said "No need, just ask what our obligations are?" A week later, yesterday, the PM "legal" response is as I stated. In my opinion, Davis Stirling takes a much stronger position. Comments?
As always, thanks.

If my memory serves me correctly, the issue starting all this is a fence in poor repair. Is the board going to address that issue?

Dean, the actual issue the 3 brought to the open session meeting was only the harassment issue. The connecting fences can't be seen from the street, so ARC walks didn't know they were a problem. I recently saw #2 neighbor having her property surveyed??? I think for sanity, there will be slow movement on the fence issue. Who owns what has always been complex here, as I personally experienced 3-4 years ago.

JackieB4 (California)
Posts: 398

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By DeanJ on 02/17/2024 7:12 PM

Posted By JackieB4 on 02/17/2024 5:32 PM
Hi Ellen, Tim, Dean, etc.. I said I would return once I heard back from PMC + BOD, with LEGAL response: "IN REGARDS TO THE RACIAL REPORTS THE HOMEOWNERS BROUGHT UP AT THE MEETING, ALL WE CAN DO IS KEEP A RECORD ANY REPORTS RECEIVED AND IF IT ESCALATES WE HAVE THE RECORD FOR THEIR CASE IF THE NEIGHBORS DECIDE TO TAKE LEGAL ACTION ON THE MATTER."
As an FYI, 2 days after this issue surfaced (1/26/2024), I asked our PMC + other 2 Directors for an emergency mtg with legal. One week later= no response? I emailed again! President said "No need, just ask what our obligations are?" A week later, yesterday, the PM "legal" response is as I stated. In my opinion, Davis Stirling takes a much stronger position. Comments?
As always, thanks.

If my memory serves me correctly, the issue starting all this is a fence in poor repair. Is the board going to address that issue?

Dean, the actual issue the 3 brought to the open session meeting was only the harassment issue. The connecting fences can't be seen from the street, so ARC walks didn't know they were a problem. I recently saw #2 neighbor having her property surveyed??? I think for sanity, there will be slow movement on the fence issue. Who owns what has always been complex here, as I personally experienced 3-4 years ago.

JackieB4 (California)
Posts: 398

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By ElleN on 02/17/2024 7:32 PM

Posted By JackieB4 on 02/17/2024 7:11 PM
Ellen, Tim, etc. I'm unsure this journey is over...

Me too. ;) Maybe it is. Maybe it is not. No idea.

Quote:

Posted By JackieB4 on 02/17/2024 7:11 PM
but here's more tread. The 3 complainants: #1 = ex-President of our BOD and lives next door to Evil Neighbor; #2 Most upset and lives directly behind Evil Neighbor(EN), whose fence has nearly fallen down, gets the racist/slang ugly comments, "can't let my dog use the yard", is a young attorney. #3, is least affected but a portion of her fence is involved, also a young attorney. All 3 asked for a cease and desist letter be sent. All 3 know that I asked for an Emergerncy mtg with BOD, PM, legal counsel...but didn't happen. Yes, I have copies of everything!!

I wonder whether the young attorneys are not specialized enough to know they have fair housing rights here. Or they know plenty, including knowing how this can explode and consume their lives. Hence they are being generous (for now?).

Ellen, I suspect your first thought is the most correct. Maybe "cease and desist" is taught in law 101?

ElleN (Idaho)
Posts: 4,420

Posted:

To thicken the plot:

Maybe the complainants here are White. Maybe the older woman yelling the racist remarks is Black.

Maybe not.

JackieB4, no need to confirm nor deny. I sit in the cheap seats.

JackieB4 (California)
Posts: 398

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By ElleN on 02/18/2024 8:05 AM
To thicken the plot:

Maybe the complainants here are White. Maybe the older woman yelling the racist remarks is Black.

Maybe not.

JackieB4, no need to confirm nor deny. I sit in the cheap seats.

I actually prefer the cheap seats...far more interesting people! "NOT".